Faith

HIM · Aug 31, 2025

In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31)and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)

NewLifeInChristJesus · Aug 31, 2025

HIM said:
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31)and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)

Yes. How can a person who does not concede that they have failed to live up to the demands of the law and therefore deserve eternal death receive from Christ forgiveness for those sins and eternal life?

HIM · Aug 31, 2025

NewLifeInChristJesus said:
Yes. How can a person who does not concede that they have failed to live up to the demands of the law and therefore deserve eternal death receive from Christ forgiveness for those sins and eternal life?

Hi friend, how does that relate to the questions?

Clare73 · Aug 31, 2025

HIM said:
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31)and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)

Ro 1:17 is in regard to "a righteousness from God. . .that is by faith;" i.e., the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

The sanctification of faith is through obedience in the Holy Spirit; obedience to the law of love of God and love of neighbor.
The salvation of faith is through faith alone.

Richard T · Aug 31, 2025

Clare73 said:
Ro 1:17 is in regard to "a righteousness from God. . .that is by faith;" i.e., the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

The sanctification of faith is through obedience in the Holy Spirit; obedience to the law of love of God and love of neighbor.
The salvation of faith is through faith alone.

If I may ask: What if one fails to go through the full process of sanctification? Is a Christian unwilling to submit to discipline truly not a son anymore as the bible suggests? Just yesterday I heard the preacher say that you can lose your salvation. (not my normal church) I know Charles Stanley aptly taught that even those who believed you could lose your salvation, that no one can say exactly where. Also, don't we all sin knowing the truth, but we sometimes commit the sin anyway?

HIM · Sep 1, 2025

Clare73 said:
Ro 1:17 is in regard to "a righteousness from God. . .that is by faith;" i.e., the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, Php 3:9).

No, it isn't. There is imputed righteousness. And this imputed righteousness gets us to Heaven. But Paul isn't getting into that until chapter 4 and 5. This righteousness that Paul is speaking here is that which is of the obedience of faith that verse 5 speaks if we hold to the context of the passage..

(Net Rom 1:5) Through Him we have received grace and our apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles on behalf of his name.

As he continues to verse 17 he says in 15 that he is ready to preach the Gospel and that he is not ashamed of it, for in it is the power of God unto salvation. Because there in the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith. For the just, the lawful out of faith shall live. Because that which may be known of God is manifested in them. For the invisible things from the creation of the world are clearly seen, so they are without excuse. For God has said, I will put the word in their mouth and in their hearts, that is the word of faith in which we preach. "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness"

Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

The Righterzpen · Sep 1, 2025

HIM said:
No, it isn't. There is imputed righteousness. And this imputed righteousness gets us to Heaven. But Paul isn't getting into that until chapter 4 and 5. This righteousness that Paul is speaking here is that which is of the obedience of faith that verse 5 speaks if we hold to the context of the passage..

(Net Rom 1:5) Through Him we have received grace and our apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles on behalf of his name.

As he continues to verse 17 he says in 15 that he is ready to preach the Gospel and that he is not ashamed of it, for in it is the power of God unto salvation. Because there in the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith. For the just, the lawful out of faith shall live. Because that which may be known of God is manifested in them. For the invisible things from the creation of the world are clearly seen, so they are without excuse. For God has said, I will put the word in their mouth and in their hearts, that is the word of faith in which we preach. "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness"

Rom 1:15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed [it] unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

I'm not really sure what your question is here? Imputed righteousness is part of a whole package that includes faith. Jude talks about the "faith once delivered unto the saints".

Faith comes from God:
1 Samual 26:23
Romans 12:3
Galatians 2:16-20, Galatians 3:2-22,
Ephesians 3:12,
Philippians 3:9,
Colossians 2:12,
Jude 3,
1 Thessalonians 1:3
(faith is a work) 2 Thessalonians 1:11

The Righterzpen · Sep 1, 2025

Richard T said:
If I may ask: What if one fails to go through the full process of sanctification? Is a Christian unwilling to submit to discipline truly not a son anymore as the bible suggests? Just yesterday I heard the preacher say that you can lose your salvation. (not my normal church) I know Charles Stanley aptly taught that even those who believed you could lose your salvation, that no one can say exactly where. Also, don't we all sin knowing the truth, but we sometimes commit the sin anyway?

The disobedient saint is one whom God chastises. God does this whether we are willing or not; because God is faithful even when we are not. And yes, one who's elect; God still "puts up with" our whining at being chastised, which the chastisement usually comes because of our own stupidity.

It is the Spirit of God who convicts the world of sin. And those genuinely convicted of sin will repent (at some point before they depart this world) because "who can resist His will" Which goes along with the previous verse: "He'll have mercy on whom He'll have mercy and whom He will He hardens." Which is rather ominous seeing how all God has to do to "harden" someone's heart is to just remove His hand of restraint and what is naturally there of the condition of their heart just manifests itself.

The one whom never returns, whom is the one who really doesn't feel conviction for their sin; is the one who was never redeemed to begin with. Which is pretty scary; but that's how that works!

NewLifeInChristJesus · Sep 1, 2025

HIM said:
Hi friend, how does that relate to the questions?

Hello.

You asked whether faith from the heart that results in righteousness in Romans 10:10 is connected to faith in the heart that is a human capability in Romans 10:8 and is not judgemental or legalistic in Romans 10:6-7. You then went on to ask if it is the same faith that does not void the law but establishes the law in Romans 3:31 and that gives life when it is placed in Christ in Romans 1:17.

I answered yes to all those questions and tied them together in one sentence. Here is a more detailed answer...

Certainly, when God impresses on a person's heart that he is a sinner in need of a Savior, that person must agree with God that the thoughts and intents of their heart and their actions are sinful and deserving of eternal death. They must cease their finger-pointing, blame games, obfuscations, denials, minimizations, etc and admit they are guilty with no excuses. This establishes that God and His laws are right and they are wrong. But this alone does not save them from the punishment for their sins. It only establishes they are guilty.

When God teaches a person he is a sinner in need of a Savior, He aslo teaches him that Jesus died for his sins and rose from the dead and stands ready to save him if he places his trust in Him. This is not an impossible feat for anyone to accomplish. The ability to put one's trust in Christ is an action in one's heart that is within everyone's capabilities just like believing God's testimony that they are sinners in need of forgiveness. When a person hears God, learns from Him, and turns to Jesus for salvation, Jesus uses His divine powers to forgive that person's sins and give him everlasting life.

This is the gospel. That is what all those verses are about. And you can see it written right there in the verses not mentioned...

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek (Ro 1:16),
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (Ro 3:23–24), and
whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved (Ro 10:13).

Clare73 · Sep 1, 2025

Richard T said:
If I may ask: What if one fails to go through the full process of sanctification? Is a Christian unwilling to submit to discipline truly not a son anymore as the bible suggests?

One who willfully disobeys as a way of life does not have saving faith.

Richard T said:
Just yesterday I heard the preacher say that you can lose your salvation. (not my normal church) I know Charles Stanley aptly taught that even those who believed you could lose your salvation, that no one can say exactly where. Also, don't we all sin knowing the truth, but we sometimes commit the sin anyway?

Richard T · Sep 2, 2025

Clare73 said:
One who willfully disobeys as a way of life does not have saving faith.

Does anyone willfully disobey God in everything? Most have a one or a few things, some have more, but where is the line? Some though do say when you are no longer repentant or even care. Perhaps that is the standard? Seems like sanctification in some Christian circles is the cover word for works. But works benefit others.

Clare73 · Sep 2, 2025

Richard T said:
Does anyone willfully disobey God in everything? Most have a one or a few things, some have more, but where is the line? Some though do say when you are no longer repentant or even care. Perhaps that is the standard? Seems like sanctification in some Christian circles is the cover word for works. But works benefit others.

Sanctification is a "cover" word for the obedience resulting from salvation (Ro 6:16, 19), the lack of which obedience demonstrates the lack of salvation.

Richard T · Sep 2, 2025

Clare73 said:
Sanctification is a "cover" word for the obedience resulting from salvation (Ro 6:16, 19), the lack of which obedience demonstrates the lack of salvation.

Sorry I have trouble understanding this sanctification part. Thanks for your answers though. So some believers are like King Saul? They might start out saved and anointed but through disobedience they lose their salvation? That sure seems like works. Saul failed to do the correct works and it resulted in his physical and most believe his spiritual death.

BBAS 64 · Sep 2, 2025

Richard T said:
Sorry I have trouble understanding this sanctification part. Thanks for your answers though. So some believers are like King Saul? They might start out saved and anointed but through disobedience they lose their salvation? That sure seems like works. Saul failed to do the correct works and it resulted in his physical and most believe his spiritual death.

Good day, Richard

It can be confusing... what you have to be careful of is to conflate the two like the Roman Catholic denomination does.

The best way I have ever heard it explained was Justification is something that is said about you where as sanctification is something that is done to you. I do not let my limited view of my sanctification rob me of the surety of my justification.

I am Justified, and God is working in me my our sanctification.

Maybe give Murray's work a read- Definitive Sanctification

In Him,

Bill

childeye 2 · Sep 2, 2025

HIM said:
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31)and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)

The objective meaning of faith implies "trust", and it must be pointing to God understood as The Eternal Power, and to His Christ, the True Image of God's Person whom He sent.

Clare73 · Sep 3, 2025

Richard T said:
Sorry I have trouble understanding this sanctification part. Thanks for your answers though. So some believers are like King Saul? They might start out saved and anointed but through disobedience they lose their salvation? That sure seems like works. Saul failed to do the correct works and it resulted in his physical and most believe his spiritual death.

Works are the result of salvation, not the cause of it.
Therefore, no works means no salvation ever took place to result in works.

fhansen · 2025-09-11T09:19:50-0500

HIM said:
In Romans 10:10 is the clause, "For with the heart man believeth unto (INTO in the Greek) righteousness" connected to verse s 6-8 where it states, Faith speaks on this wise, say not in our heart bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But says, The Word is in our heart and in our mouth. That is the word of faith in which we preach.
And is this the faith that establishes the Law (3:31)and the faith that the Just live by? (1:17)

Yes, how is it that man so easily believes in himself, that he has righteousness on his own, that he has it apart from God? We're here to learn the simple fact that true righteousness comes only from Him, 'apart from whom we can do nothing'. John 15:5

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