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Florida officials deny accusations of inhumane conditions at Alligator Alcatraz

essentialsaltes

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GoldenBoy89

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essentialsaltes

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essentialsaltes

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Judge temporarily blocks further construction of 'Alligator Alcatraz' detention center

Any further construction must be halted for 14 days, the judge ruled.
While the hearing was set to resume on Tuesday, Judge Williams granted the temporary order to prevent possible harm to the sensitive Everglades ecosystem in the meantime.

Judge rules 'Alligator Alcatraz' can stay open for now, but no further detainees or construction are allowed

Within 60 days, the facility must also remove “all generators, gas, sewage, and other waste and waste receptacles,” which calls into question how it would operate.

U.S. District Judge Kathleen M. Williams entered a preliminary injunction to prevent the installation of any additional industrial-style lighting and any site expansion. Her ruling further prevents “bringing any additional persons ... who were not already being detained at the site at the time of this order.”

The ruling was filed late Thursday, allowing the injunction that was requested over National Environmental Policy Act violations.

Within 60 days, “and once the population attrition allows for safe implementation of this Order,” the facility must also remove “all generators, gas, sewage, and other waste and waste receptacles that were installed to support this project,” the 82-page ruling said.
 
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FireDragon76

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In an op-ed published by the New York Times on July 11, Esau McCaulley — a theology professor at Wheaton College in Illinois and author of the forthcoming children's book "God's Colorful Kingdom Storybook Bible" — examines the role Christianity plays in the anti-Trump resistance. And the op-ed's headline poses the question: "Is the Christian Resistance to Trump Growing?"

"For too long," McCaulley argues, "this administration has presented itself as the only defender of Christianity while it engages in merely symbolic gestures like posting Bible verses or publicizing worship services in the White House. Frederick Douglass described this type of performance: 'Religion simply as a form of worship, an empty ceremony, and not a vital principle, requiring active benevolence, justice, love and good will towards man.' I fail to see how you can shout glory to God one minute and laugh about the harsh conditions of Alligator Alcatraz the next."

--

counterpoint (hat tip Michie)

Christians can 'love all people' and support 'Alligator Alcatraz,' Evangelical group says

Sharayah Colter, chief communications officer at The Danbury Institute, a nonpartisan association of Evangelical churches based in Dallas, Texas, says while the controversy over the facility is likely to continue, Evangelicals and other Christians “should support earnest efforts to secure the nation and to uphold law and order.”

“People inside and outside of America are taught by the actions of the nation that our laws are impotent,” she added. “It is wrong to convey to people that it is OK to break the law since Scripture calls people to obey the laws of the land so far as they do not cause a person to break God’s law. When a nation passes laws, the righteous thing to do is to uphold and enforce those laws. To act otherwise is both wrong and cruel.”

[Not sure where the alligators come in. Probably through gaps under the fence, yuk yuk.]

Wheaton is a northern Evangelical college.

In my experience, southern Evangelicals are alot less willing to question racist dog-whistles like appeals to "law and order", than northern Evangelicals.
 
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chilehed

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What intelligent person thinks that people from Central and South America are not accustomed to a hot humid climate with large insects?

I've been camping just a few miles from the Alligator Alcatraz site many, many times. There's nothing dangerous or inhumane about the place, unless you refuse to drink water and not play with the reptiles.
 
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DaisyDay

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What intelligent person thinks that people from Central and South America are not accustomed to a hot humid climate with large insects?
Did you know that there are mountains and deserts in Central and South America?
I've been camping just a few miles from the Alligator Alcatraz site many, many times. There's nothing dangerous or inhumane about the place, unless you refuse to drink water and not play with the reptiles.
Seems odd to camp in a swamp in August. Mosquitoes carry disease and hurricanes are dangerous. Did your camp have overflowing toilets?
 
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Ellesmere

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"ENQUIRING MINDS" question as to why President Trump repeatedly voices his concerns for the Russians and Russians fighting and dying in the Ukraine while show no such emotions when it comes to the apprehension and "warehousing" of supposed "!illegals!"

Apparently the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE is not awarded to those leaders who show compassion for those domestic prisoners under their care, but i suspect that those on the Nobel Committee are not impressed by the methods employed by his Administration directed at this group!

"Alligator Alcatraz" appears to be the 21st version of France's notorious penal colony "DEVILS ISLAND" (1852-1952) off the coast of French Guyana where "POLITICAL PRISONERS" were subjected to as the name suggests, a "LIVING HELL!
 
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chilehed

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Did you know that there are mountains and deserts in Central and South America?
I did. Did you know that everyone who walked to the southern border to enter the country illegally spent a lot of time walking through places that were very hot, humid, and buggy?

Seems odd to camp in a swamp in August.
That's just another way of saying that you don't know anything about the area. It's perfectly normal to camp, fish and hunt there in all seasons, and there's nothing uniquely dangerous about the region.

It's amazing how a lifetime of living in air conditioned comfort can distort someone's ideas about what "inhumane" means.
 
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DaisyDay

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I did. Did you know that everyone who walked to the southern border to enter the country illegally spent a lot of time walking through places that were very hot, humid, and buggy?
No, I thought many of them walked through land that was dry and dusty, so this is news to me.
That's just another way of saying that you don't know anything about the area.
Totally; I've never been to Florida.
It's perfectly normal to camp, fish and hunt there in all seasons, and there's nothing uniquely dangerous about the region.
Oddly, part of the PR for Alligator Alcatraz is that it is uniquely dangerous with crocodiles, alligators and poisonous snakes not to mention the all too common disease carrying mosquitos and tics. Huh, that was all a pretty lie? The bayous and Gulf Coast of Texas had some of that, but no crocodiles. But you're saying that Southern California, New Mexico and Arizona are just like the Florida swamp? Yeah, that's news to me.
It's amazing how a lifetime of living in air conditioned comfort can distort someone's ideas about what "inhumane" means.
It hasn't been a lifetime of air conditioning for me, so I surely do appreciate that I have it now, but heat compounded with humidity can kill. This is a problem for guards as well as prisoners. I have had a lifetime of decent, edible food and mostly working toilets and I do find the lack to be inhumane.
 
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JustaPewFiller

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You need to keep in mind this is Florida. Florida has a long history of poorly run and poorly maintained prisons.

In 2023 a Justice Dept report spelled out dire conditions in FL's prisons.



In one facility alone 4 have died from heat since 2021.

What has the state done? They have argued that why the prisoners are suffering, they aren't suffering *enough* for it to be considered "cruel and unusual".



I hate to say it, but it doesn't surprise me in the least that conditions are inhumane and that FL is denying it. That just follows the pattern that has been going on with FL state prisons for years.
 
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chilehed

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No, I thought many of them walked through land that was dry and dusty, so this is news to me.
They went through places like that too. Heat index is high all over the place down there, and the way to handle it has been understood for thousands of years. It's nothing new, and it's not inhumane.

But you're saying that Southern California, New Mexico and Arizona are just like the Florida swamp?
"Just like"? I said nothing of the sort.

There are plenty of ways to die wandering around the wilds of any of the Gulf states or the American SW. Florida ain't unique in that.

It'd be extremely unlikely to run into a crocodile in that area, their range is closer to the coast. Alligators yes, snakes yes. So what?

It hasn't been a lifetime of air conditioning for me, so I surely do appreciate that I have it now, but heat compounded with humidity can kill.
How ever then did anyone survive such a place before they invented air conditioning? Heck, we didn't have a/c in the house at all until I was in junior high, so I guess my grandparents, my parents and I are all dead.

Everything you're complaining about could be said of any location in the world without significant change. Too hot, too cold, too dry, too wet, snakes, insects, coyotes, wolves, wild hogs, rivers to drown in, cliffs to fall off of... you're being absurd, and it looks like you really just want immigration law to be ignored.

Totally; I've never been to Florida.
You sound like you've never been outside.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Human rights abuses are A-ok but don’t you dare disturb one water lily.
Hey, if you keep saying that kind of stuff, you could find yourself with a lucrative lobbying job for the EV battery industry.
 
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FreeinChrist

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I did. Did you know that everyone who walked to the southern border to enter the country illegally spent a lot of time walking through places that were very hot, humid, and buggy?


That's just another way of saying that you don't know anything about the area. It's perfectly normal to camp, fish and hunt there in all seasons, and there's nothing uniquely dangerous about the region.

It's amazing how a lifetime of living in air conditioned comfort can distort someone's ideas about what "inhumane" means.
I grew up without air-conditioning and remember some miserable summers at times, especially when with family in St. Louis when elderly folks were dying from the heat. Then spent about 40+ years in AZ including being outside in 120, and live at least half of the year in Belize, which has a climate similar to Florida.
I would find the conditions in such a prison to be near intolerable. No ice water, one toilet for about 30 in each cage, inconsistent air conditioning, and what about insect repellent? Mosquitos carry Denque fever, West Nile, Chikungunya, and other diseases.
Then there are reports of a lack of food and failure to provide lawyers. And it was set up to make non-citizens scared. No wonder a judge shut it down.

Cruelty seems to be the point.
 
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DaisyDay

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They went through places like that too. Heat index is high all over the place down there, and the way to handle it has been understood for thousands of years. It's nothing new, and it's not inhumane.
This reminds me of the folk who insisted that waterboarding wasn't torture because college students sometimes voluntarily submitted to hazing (disregarding that occasional deaths is the reason its illegal).
"Just like"? I said nothing of the sort.
Well you certainly implied it when you said that everyone who crossed the southern border all experienced the conditions found in the Florida swap even though many people cross the western part of the southern border where it is not in the least swampy.
There are plenty of ways to die wandering around the wilds of any of the Gulf states or the American SW. Florida ain't unique in that.
Okay, not disputing that.
It'd be extremely unlikely to run into a crocodile in that area, their range is closer to the coast. Alligators yes, snakes yes. So what?
Did you miss the part that this is how Alligator Alcatraz was marketed to the public? This, then, is so what.
How ever then did anyone survive such a place before they invented air conditioning? Heck, we didn't have a/c in the house at all until I was in junior high, so I guess my grandparents, my parents and I are all dead.
In a similar vein, how did anyone survive the Black Death that killed a third of the European population at its height? Some people died, so everyone must have died!! :rolleyes:

Many people did not and do not survive a heat wave, particularly one compounded by high humidity. Now it seems that those who do survive, do for a shorter period than if they had not undergone the extreme heat.

Everything you're complaining about could be said of any location in the world without significant change. Too hot, too cold, too dry, too wet, snakes, insects, coyotes, wolves, wild hogs, rivers to drown in, cliffs to fall off of... you're being absurd, and it looks like you really just want immigration law to be ignored.
Looky there - a superb combo of personal attack and straw man! That's impressive.
You sound like you've never been outside.
Another silly personal attack.

The argument is moot as the camp has been slated for shutdown.
 
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