Might the Laws of God actually change on the New Earth?

So, just led to Matthew today, and I'm reading and something stood out in the sermon of the Mount

Matthew 5

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

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right so this part we all know, to give context

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

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Heaven and Earth do pass away, and a New Earth comes.. meaning the laws can pass away then, and be removed, or replaced.

Freth said:

Scripture confirms that the law of God is eternal. See Isaiah 66:23, Psalms 19:7-14, and Psalms 119:160 for statements of fact.

The Bible shows us that God has an eternal standard for all of His creation. It is found in the war in heaven where Lucifer and a third of the angels fell because of sin, but two thirds did not. It is found in Eden where Adam and Eve lived in harmony with God before falling into sin. It is found in thousands of years of God's efforts to save man, even going so far as to send His only Son to die on the cross. It is found in the everlasting gospel. It is found in the patience of the saints who keep the commandments of God. It is found in Isaiah's description of the new heaven and new earth.

If you think about it, if God was going to change His standard, he could have done so at the very beginning, when there was war in heaven. He could have done so when Adam and Eve sinned. He could have done so any time in the thousands of years of sinful man, but He did not, He instead wrote His law in stone with His own hand.

God goes to great lengths in the Bible to call man to obedience unto righteousness. If God were to change His standard, the goal post moves forward or backward, and the whole of salvation and the cross are rendered moot.

The point of salvation is reconciliation with God, according to His standard. Sin is and always will be transgression of the eternal law of God. It has to be an unchanging standard, otherwise it's not a standard at all.

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I don't know but the text gives a condition for change, that heaven and earth pass away, which they do.

Some laws are already not considered applicable to the gentiles, or the counsel of Jerusalem would have included a lot more laws that had to be spread to gentiles aside from avoid fornication, and don't eat meat that was strangled or eat blood.

BTW, I'm going to strongly disagree with the war in heaven being a past event.
as when discussing Revelation 12, Satan knows he has a short time, and the woman is protected from Satan for 1260 days (3.5 years) that's eschatology, not history.
I don't care what popes and priests and mislead Greek Philosophers (who converted and tried to wed their Platonic world view to the bible and come up with concepts like Allegorizing scripture to make it all fit as past events) said. The bible gives it in a period of 42 months, not all of human history.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

A more baseline difficulty to the above proposition is this: There is The Creator and then there is the creation.

The creation, by nature, will always be far far less than The Creator.

There would not even be a creation or any creation without The Creator being MERCIFUL to that which is less than Himself.

How then is this resolved? In 1 Cor. 15:28 Paul provides the ultimate one liner for the ultimate end game.

Nevertheless we also know that God's Mercy endures forever. An oft repeated theme. Which does indicate that "creation" may be and may have been in endless past, a part of God's Perpetual Plans of action. Creation itself seems to be somewhat of an endless expresssion as a picture/type of God and His creation, creation showing just a portion of His Own Great Self. Not that creation can be that. But it's an interesting picture. Like God, but throttled down so we can kind of perceive it and Him in the process.

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I'm not sure how this ties in?

I guess where I'm interested in, is that Jesus could have simply said not one jot nor one tittle will ever pass away from the law. He could have simply stated that the law was forever. But He didn't, rather He gave a condition for the expiration of the law.

there is a similar "sunset clause" for the Nation of Israel in Jeremiah 31

35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

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When would those ordinances depart before the Lord? When heaven and earth pass away and a new creation is made. Israel would no longer be a distinct nation on the New Earth. All would be in Christ, Gentile and Jew alike.

The New Earth creates new paradigms. The current nations, and historical nations.. no meaning anymore, and it may involve new laws. Not just laws of morality mind you but God has other laws that are not moral laws, laws of physics and so on.

so it seems the consensus is that the law remains the law even on the New Earth, does that include things like Kosher dietary laws and not wearing mixed fabrics? Does that include laws regarding slaves?

and why did Jesus give possible expiration clauses? Why is it "till all is fulfilled" rather than just saying never?

Freth said:

Let's look at the verses.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

In verse 17, the Greek word plēroō is translated as fulfil. If Jesus did not come to destroy, then the meaning of fulfil cannot mean doing away with the law. Look at the definition of plēroō according to Strong's G4137.

1. to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
   1. to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
      1. I abound, I am liberally supplied
2. to render full, i.e. to complete
   1. to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
   2. to consummate: a number
      1. to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
      2. to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
   3. to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
      1. of matters of duty: to perform, execute
      2. of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
      3. to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

The law is not destroyed, but rendered full. The law is being magnified here, not done away with. Is the law obeyed as it should be? Have God's promises been fulfilled?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

In verse 18, the Greek word ginomai is translated as fulfilled. Notice it is a different word with a different meaning. If the law will in no way pass till all is fulfilled, then the law stands until a specific event, according to Jesus. Look at the definition of ginomai according to Strong's G1096.

1. to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2. to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
   1. of events
3. to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
   1. of men appearing in public
4. to be made, finished
   1. of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5. to become, be made

Heaven and earth must pass before the law changes, if it does at all. Isaiah 66:22-23 says that the Sabbath will be observed in the new heaven and new earth for eternity, which proves that at least the Sabbath is not changed, and is a good indicator that the law never changes.

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The part from Isaiah 66 does say the sabbath still will be observed, and it also suggests that the "expiration clause" of Jeremiah 31 that I was talking about does not actually expire on the New Earth, Israel will still be a distinct Nation.

Like the way those 2, this part from Matthew 5 and Jeremiah 31, God says "unless this happens, this won't happen" but those conditions will be someday met, so it poses the question of whether the things Jesus said won't happen would then happen. At least one of those still won't happen (Israel no longer being a Nation).
But the Sabbath itself does not mean no jots or tittles passed away. Just that that law is still observed.

Freth said:

Further proof that the law never changes is found in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

This is essentially saying the same thing as Matthew 5:18, and gives context to what Jesus actually meant when He said, "Till heaven and earth pass..."; the law will not change.

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Well not exactly. The bible itself may be eternal. But certain statutes have changed.
When Noah came out of the flood, all beasts were given as meat, there was no separation of clean beast and unclean beast.

For Moses, the Mosaic Covenant defined clean beasts and unclean beasts.
So a statute of God changed.

in the New Testament, that dietary restriction was not put on the gentiles, and in Acts 10 Peter had a vision that while yes, did mean spread the Gospel to the Gentiles, but Peter already knew he was supposed to do that when Jesus gave the great commission. But "rise, kill and eat" was also.. God had declared food to be clean again, even when Peter balked at it.
Paul went further in 1 Timothy 4, declaring all meat sanctified by the Word of God and prayer.

So then we have to think, what's the law that won't change? Because the Mosaic covenant does appear to change, or is at least not enforced on Gentiles.

Hebrews 8

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

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The old covenant therefore, can pass away, but Paul does not say it *has* passed away.