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Book Of Enoch And The Flat-earth

Aaron112

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You cannot even prove that what is directly God inspired must be taken as "literal and inerrant."
You sure about that?

It seems to be contagious.

Ancient Greece played a cruicial role in the development of Western society, even to the point some say it's where it started. I get the word can be ambigious without clear markers, but when I use the word "ancient" I am thinking of pre-western influence.
Like the tower of babel ?
In this case it fell.
Yep.
That's a wile of the devil, so as to keep the Bible out of history class.
The worldly schools love the worldly views.
The righteous children live by faith, not by sight, nor "of the world".(nor of a forum?)
 
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Hentenza

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This might sound like a dumb question, but just out of curiosity, did you take your own Bible, or was One supplied?
They used one that acted like a text book. Each chapter had an introduction, the biblical text (NIV) and a chapter test.
 
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Hentenza

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What non-fiction genre are you talking about? Why should we suppose that anything in the Bible can be fit into a rigid fiction/non-fiction dichotomy?
Because a fiction genre is not part of the Bible. Subjective interpretations are valid such as God not having wings, etc. The creation story is not subjective in my opinion since I still believe that God is responsible for all of creation. Again, like any other book the text is interpreted based on context, the authors meaning, and literary structure. There are also literary devices to consider.

When you read a book, do you start with an objective or subjective understanding?
 
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Aaron112

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Subjective interpretations are valid such as God not having wings, etc.
That is a popular and accepted use of the word "interpretation(s)" , but in truth no interpretation (of the Bible) is needed, per se. For example (poor example perhaps), God does have wings, and legs, and thighs, hahaha
He owns the cattle on a thousand hills ! ALL creation is His.
When you read a book, do you start with an objective or subjective understanding?
Neither.
 
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Hentenza

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So you read a sentence in a book what is your expectation? Is it literal or not? Do you read the sentence literally?
 
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BCP1928

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Because a fiction genre is not part of the Bible.
How do you know?
Subjective interpretations are valid such as God not having wings, etc. The creation story is not subjective in my opinion since I still believe that God is responsible for all of creation.
So do many people who have favored a non-literal interpretation over the last couple of thousand years.
Again, like any other book the text is interpreted based on context, the authors meaning, and literary structure. There are also literary devices to consider.
Correct.
When you read a book, do you start with an objective or subjective understanding?
Neither one. You have to read the book first.
 
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Tinker Grey

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When you read a book, do you start with an objective or subjective understanding?
I don't think objective/subjective is a meaningful way to describe books.

Fiction, non-fiction, factual, allegorical, metaphorical seem reasonable to me. And as @BCP1928 said, if the book is unknown to me (that is, I didn't find it in a library already categorized for me), I don't know what it is until I read it.

As for fiction in the Bible, what are parables if not fiction? (I know there are some fringe people that think that the "sower" was actually some guy instead of a stand in for any agrarian, but really...)
 
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Hentenza

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How do you know?
Because 2 Timothy 3: 16-17 would not make any sense if the Bible was fiction.
So do many people who have favored a non-literal interpretation over the last couple of thousand years.
Yep which it why I qualified my statement with “in my opinion”.

Yay!!!!
Neither one. You have to read the book first.
Not really. Do you read the words literally or not?
 
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Tinker Grey

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Because 2 Timothy 3: 16-17 would not make any sense if the Bible was fiction.
Aesop's fables are fiction and they are "useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

Stories of all sorts teach us things.
 
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Hentenza

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I don't think objective/subjective is a meaningful way to describe books.

Fiction, non-fiction, factual, allegorical, metaphorical seem reasonable to me. And as @BCP1928 said, if the book is unknown to me (that is, I didn't find it in a library already categorized for me), I don't know what it is until I read it.

As for fiction in the Bible, what are parables if not fiction? (I know there are some fringe people that think that the "sower" was actually some guy instead of a stand in for any agrarian, but really...)
I am not going to cover Bible apologetics here. If you don’t like the terms objective and subjective you could substitute the terms with literal and non literal. The point is that anything that you read you start with reading each word literally and then interpret whether the sentence, paragraph, chapter, or book had a literal or non literal meaning.
 
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Hentenza

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Aesop's fables are fiction and they are "useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

Stories of all sorts teach us things.
As I stated in my last post I am not going to discuss Bible apologetics here.
 
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AV1611VET

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They used one that acted like a text book. Each chapter had an introduction, the biblical text (NIV) and a chapter test.

Okay thanks.
 
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Aaron112

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So you read a sentence in a book what is your expectation? Is it literal or not? Do you read the sentence literally?
Sometimes I might have hope at least for truth, though rarely have expectations of truth.
Over 88 percent of all that is written is towards destruction, with evil as it's source, not from God.
 
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Aaron112

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Aesop's fables are fiction and they are "useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness".

Stories of all sorts teach us things.
It might be that those fables are like quicksand, dangerous, and anything that is built on or with them leads to death?
 
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AV1611VET

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As for fiction in the Bible, what are parables if not fiction?

Real events that happened.

Numbers 23:7 And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel.

Numbers 22:6 Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed.
 
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Aaron112

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Real events that happened.

Numbers 23:7 And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel.

Numbers 22:6 Come now therefore, I pray thee, curse me this people; for they are too mighty for me: peradventure I shall prevail, that we may smite them, and that I may drive them out of the land: for I wot that he whom thou blessest is blessed, and he whom thou cursest is cursed.

Numbers 23:6-8

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

6 Balaam returned to Balak, who was standing by his burnt sacrifice, he and all the princes of Moab.
7 Balaam took up his [figurative] speech and said: Balak, the king of Moab, has brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse Jacob for me; and come, violently denounce Israel.
8 How can I curse those God has not cursed? Or how can I [violently] denounce those the Lord has not denounced?
 
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BCP1928

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Because 2 Timothy 3: 16-17 would not make any sense if the Bible was fiction.
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

I don't see anything in that which requires us to assume any particular literary genre on the part of the various authors.
Yep which it why I qualified my statement with “in my opinion”.


Yay!!!!

Not really. Do you read the words literally or not?
Yes, I read it word by word, but I don't think that's what you mean.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I am not going to cover Bible apologetics here. If you don’t like the terms objective and subjective you could substitute the terms with literal and non literal. The point is that anything that you read you start with reading each word literally and then interpret whether the sentence, paragraph, chapter, or book had a literal or non literal meaning.

Hentenza, I don't think those topics qualify as much as apologetics as they do Hermeneutics.

Personally, as a philosopher with a strong interest in historiography, I'm going to inquire about the possible background of the book first before I start reading it.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

I don't see anything in that which requires us to assume any particular literary genre on the part of the various authors.
I also don't see anything in the text that guarantees its authenticity either. Wouldn't it be a crying shame if 2 Timothy (or all of the Pastorals) turned out to be a forgery?
Yes, I read it word by word, but I don't think that's what you mean.
 
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AV1611VET

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Numbers 23:6-8

Amplified Bible, Classic Edition

6 Balaam returned to Balak, who was standing by his burnt sacrifice, he and all the princes of Moab.
7 Balaam took up his [figurative] speech and said: Balak, the king of Moab, has brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse Jacob for me; and come, violently denounce Israel.
8 How can I curse those God has not cursed? Or how can I [violently] denounce those the Lord has not denounced?

Numbers 23:6-8

New International Version

6 So he went back to him and found him standing beside his offering, with all the Moabite officials. 7 Then Balaam spoke his message:
 
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