Questions and Answers

keras · Tuesday at 3:43 AM

Douggg said:
Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

It is known only to God the Father what day and hour that He will send Jesus for the resurrection/rapture.

Total avoidance of the questions I asked.
Here is another question: If we won't know when Jesus will Return, then why does 1 Thess 4:16 and Rev 19:12-16, say that glorious Day will be heralded by Trumpets and shouts from heaven? Plus, He will come exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated.

Do you really think that the Church will be raptured before any trials and testing? You contradict many scriptures if you do.
The forthcoming Day of fiery wrath, is the unknown Day. The foolish rapture believers will be terrified.

Spiritual Jew · Tuesday at 1:17 PM

keras said:
It is the Bible Prophets who have all the answers. I merely present their Prophesies, along with supporting scriptures and how our modern knowledge can help in understanding what God has planned for our future.
It isn't my concern if people object to what I present, as what the Prophets said was rejected then and nothing has changed now.

People are rejecting your understanding of the Bible prophets, not the Bible prophets themselves. You act as if people are rejecting your words as if you speak for the Bible prophets, but you do not. You often misinterpret what they wrote. But, you act like that is impossible and that's why you come across as if you think you have all the answers.

keras said:
What is going to happen will shock and surprise most, which is how God wants it. It will be our test of faith and many will fail it.

We who trust in the Lord and are Bible believers can and should know what He has planned for our future. Paul says: 1 Thessalonians 5:4 You; friends are not in the dark, that Day will not come upon you like a thief. Revelation 1:1 The Lord has revealed His plans to His servants.

We believe that God’s Word is inerrant and complete as presented to us in the Holy Scriptures, therefore it is not right to ignore parts of it, or to say: that must have already happened, and: that does not apply to us, excepting for the obvious.

In my view, you are the one who ignores parts of God's Word. Such as 2 Peter 3:13. What Peter said we are to look for in fulfillment of the promise of the second coming (return) of Christ are the new heavens and new earth. But, you talk about looking for something far inferior to that in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming instead.

keras said:
To hold onto beliefs that do not have solid Bible support, like looking to the Return of Jesus as the next event, or a ‘rapture’ out of this world, is a serious error and may result in some disadvantage for you. The attitude of “I trust in the Lord for protection” is correct, but barely adequate when He has given us so much warning and information.

You seem to focus entirely on physical catastrophes and trying to survive them while never saying anything about the importance of being spiritually aware of what's going on while being careful not to allow ourselves to be deceived, as Jesus talked about in the Olivet Discourse, and as Paul wrote about in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12.

keras said:
The actual end times events will surprise and shock those who didn’t bother to gain understanding, even though it will dramatically affect everyone.

The unfortunate part about not knowing our future, is that we miss out on the anticipation of the wonderful and amazing promises that the Lord has made to His people, those who keep His Laws and honour and praise their Creator.

Yes, like the new heavens and new earth that Peter said we look for in fulfillment of the promise of Christ's return.

Spiritual Jew · Tuesday at 1:21 PM

keras said:
Total avoidance of the questions I asked.
Here is another question: If we won't know when Jesus will Return, then why does 1 Thess 4:16 and Rev 19:12-16, say that glorious Day will be heralded by Trumpets and shouts from heaven?

The seventh and last trumpet will sound on that day, so I don't know what your point is here. Nothing will signal or indicate the exact day or hour of His return before the day and hour He actually returns.

keras said:
Plus, He will come exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated.

Nope. When Jesus said no one knows the day or hour, He wasn't just making that up. If you come up with something that suggests we can know the day or hour, then you know you can't be correct because Jesus said otherwise. Scripture is clear that He will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night, so any theory you come up with to suggest that He won't return unexpectedly is false.

Jesus did say we can know when His return is near (Matthew 24:32-33), but not the exact day or hour.

Douggg · Tuesday at 4:25 PM

keras said:
Here is another question: If we won't know when Jesus will Return, then why does 1 Thess 4:16 and Rev 19:12-16, say that glorious Day will be heralded by Trumpets and shouts from heaven? Plus, He will come exactly 1260 days after the Temple is desecrated.

We know that once the Antichrist makes the big speech from the temple mount confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle stipulated by Moses - then 7 years later Jesus Returns. So, although we don't know the calendar date right now, we do the (undated) time line of events to take place.

Also, we don't the calendar date that 1Thessalonians4:16 will take place.

1Thessalonians4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

....is referring to resurrection/rapture event.... not Jesus's return at the end of the 7 years.

Jesus does not actually stand upon earth for the resurrection/rapture event, as the resurrected/raptured saints will meet Jesus in the air.

What I picture it as happening is that God the Father will send Jesus from the third heaven, bringing with Him from the third heaven the souls of departed saints.

And Jesus, once near the earth, will circle the earth, resurrecting the bodies of them who died in Christ/reuniting them with their departed souls; while also, but slightly behind, changing the living in Christ to be transformed, into everlasting bodies as well - changed in the twinkling of an eye.

And taken to heaven, while the great tribulation will then take place here on earth.

At the end of the great tribulation, Jesus will return with the resurrected/raptured saints in Revelation 19:12-16

keras · Tuesday at 4:57 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
Nope. When Jesus said no one knows the day or hour, He wasn't just making that up. If you come up with something that suggests we can know the day or hour, then you know you can't be correct because Jesus said otherwise. Scripture is clear that He will come unexpectedly as a thief in the night, so any theory you come up with to suggest that He won't return unexpectedly is false.

Jesus said: You don't know the hour of My coming....
He wasn't referring to His glorious Return, but His coming in fire, on His terrible day of wrath, Isaiah 66:15-17, Revelation 6:12-17
Why should He hide the Day of His Return? We ARE told exact time periods and the time of world satanic control, Rev 13, will last exactly 1260 days.

Spiritual Jew said:
The seventh and last trumpet will sound on that day, so I don't know what your point is here. Nothing will signal or indicate the exact day or hour of His return before the day and hour He actually returns.

My point is that we can know the Day of Jesus Return, many things lead up to it, the Sixth and Seventh Bowl, Rev 16:12-14 & 16 will indicate how close it is.
I view Rev 16:15, as a parenthesis insertion; referring back to how we must be aware and prepared for the Sixth Seal world changer.

Spiritual Jew said:
In my view, you are the one who ignores parts of God's Word. Such as 2 Peter 3:13. What Peter said we are to look for in fulfillment of the promise of the second coming (return) of Christ are the new heavens and new earth. But, you talk about looking for something far inferior to that in fulfillment of the promise of His second coming instead.

Revelation 21:1-8, follows on from Rev 20. It is plain that there will be a thousand years between the glorious Return and the new heavens and earth, your statement above, is a flat out contradiction of scripture.

keras · Tuesday at 5:09 PM

Douggg said:
At the end of the great tribulation, Jesus will return with the resurrected/raptured saints in Revelation 19:12-16

Your entire paradigm of the end times, is wrong and unbiblical. Nowhere is it said the Anti-Christ will confirm the Mosaic Covenant.
The ONLY people Jesus will bring with Him, will be the martyrs killed during the 3 1/2 period of world Satanic control. Revelation 20:4-5

You persist in posting ugly pictures on my threads. The one in #44 has no scriptural support and is just a fanciful dream.
Using 'come up hither', Revelation 4:1, spoken just to John, shows how willing you are to twist and mis-apply scripture to fit your false beliefs. What will Jesus say to people who do that?

Spiritual Jew · Tuesday at 5:37 PM

keras said:
Jesus said: You don't know the hour of My coming....
He wasn't referring to His glorious Return, but His coming in fire, on His terrible day of wrath, Isaiah 66:15-17, Revelation 6:12-17

LOL. This is complete nonsense. His second coming IS His return. He's not coming more than once in the future. Both Peter and Paul make it very clear that He will come back/return unexpectedly as a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Peter 3:10-12), which Jesus Himself also indicated.

keras said:
Why should He hide the Day of His Return? We ARE told exact time periods and the time of world satanic control, Rev 13, will last exactly 1260 days.

Because He wants us to serve and obey Him right up until He returns rather than just counting down the days until He returns which would lead to complacency.

Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. 45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.

keras said:
My point is that we can know the Day of Jesus Return, many things lead up to it, the Sixth and Seventh Bowl, Rev 16:12-14 & 16 will indicate how close it is.

Your point is wrong. No one will know until the actual day and hour that He comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night.

keras said:
I view Rev 16:15, as a parenthesis insertion; referring back to how we must be aware and prepared for the Sixth Seal world changer.

Of course you do. How convenient for you to see it that way. This is just another example of you twisting scripture to make it say what you want it to say.

keras said:
Revelation 21:1-8, follows on from Rev 20. It is plain that there will be a thousand years between the glorious Return and the new heavens and earth, your statement above, is a flat out contradiction of scripture.

It is plain that you are wrong, as has been proven over and over again. You refuse to learn.

keras · Tuesday at 9:50 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
This is complete nonsense. His second coming IS His return.

Over 100 Prophesies vividly describe how the Lord will come in fire and He will not be seen on that Day. Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 1:14-18,
Verses like Psalms 11:4-6 and Habakkuk 3:4, Revelation 6:12-17, + prove this.
That terrible Day is totally different and separate from the glorious Return, to come years later.

It is plain you have been proved wrong. You seem incapable of learning.

Douggg · Wednesday at 5:57 AM

keras said:
Over 100 Prophesies vividly describe how the Lord will come in fire and He will not be seen on that Day. Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 1:14-18,
Verses like Psalms 11:4-6 and Habakkuk 3:4, Revelation 6:12-17, + prove this.
That terrible Day is totally different and separate from the glorious Return, to come years later.

It is plain you have been proved wrong. You seem incapable of learning.

keras, when you disagree with another poster, stick to the reasons why you disagree. Don't add a comment like that in red, because it is inflammatory.

Douggg · Wednesday at 6:00 AM

Spiritual Jew said:
LOL. This is complete nonsense. His second coming IS His return. He's not coming more than once in the future. Both Peter and Paul make it very clear that He will come back/return unexpectedly as a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:2-3, 2 Peter 3:10-12), which Jesus Himself also indicated.

When discussing with another poster, don't include phrases like LOL, because it is inflammatory.

Also, don't include sentences like "You refuse to learn", because it is inflammatory.

Fisherking · Wednesday at 9:50 AM

keras said:
Christian believers are at odds with one another. We all read the Bible and keep the Commandments. Why do we understand the Prophesies so differently?
My approach is to read the prophesies literally, unless they are obviously metaphorical; describing something not known in ancient times, but what is possible to figure out from our modern knowledge.
I am also a studier of history, so I fairly well know what has happened and what is yet to be fulfilled.

As for the Jewish State of Israel, the whole concept and realization of that entity is a Satanic construct. Jesus said it would happen, Matthew 24:32, but He never said it was from God.
The Zionist Congress, headed by Theodore Hertzel, were mostly all atheists and their Jewish State of Israel was founded on communist principals. Today it is a secular state, run just as every other democracy, with many beliefs having a say in State politics. Judaism; with its denial of Jesus is no better than Islam.

But what really astounds me, is how people ignore the many prophesies that clearly state the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Which will happen at the Sixth Seal, the next prophesied event. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Hosea 4:3, ++
Isaiah 22:1-14; is one of the best prophesies about this forthcoming Day. It describes how they rush about, terrified; as they see their doom approaching. Ezekiel 7:14-20 & 22:1-8, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 25:30-38
What will trigger the Lord to act on His terrible Day of fiery wrath, is told us in Isaiah 22:6, where Iran and all the Islamic entities will commence an attack onto the holy Land, something that is only possible now, using nuke missiles, as Zechariah 5:1-11, Psalms 7:12-16 and Psalms 83 tell us, and with the result of their surprise attack.
This scenario will happen; it is what the Bible says. If we reject it, then what else of the Bible is wrong and can we trust it for anything?

As is so comprehensively prophesied, the entire Middle East will be virtually depopulated in the forthcoming Day of the Lords fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 1 & 2:1-5, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +
Isaiah 29:1-4 says it very well and tells us that just a few, possibly a thousand or so Christian Jews, will survive by hiding underground. That remnant will be joined by their Christian brethren and all will live in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5, Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-27

The belief of a general Jewish Redemption, is an immutable tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' theory. Just as there is no scriptural evidence of God taking the Church to heaven, nowhere is it said that Jews will have any prominence in the end times or later. Both ideas are false teachings and will not happen.
Another way of viewing the Jewish State of Israel, is they constitute the visible 'Israel'. The Satanic hatred of Ishmael and his descendants is directed toward the Jewish Israelis, rather than toward the real Israelites of God, the Christian peoples of every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10

The amazing Plans of God are beyond our human comprehension; He is working toward His ultimate goal: to obtain a people who have freely chosen to believe in Him and to be with Him for Eternity.
We have quite a way to go yet, some very hard times of testing and the proving of our faith, as many have done before us.
But great and wonderful are the Blessings and rewards promised to those who hold fast to their faith and trust unconditionally in His protection.

It is plain from verses like Isaiah 42:18-20, that the Lord has placed over people, a veil of inability to understand the Prophesies. Pastors are the worst affected, of the dozen or so that I have tried to discuss the prophesies with, they all not only know nothing about them, but they refuse to know anything.
I see this as part of Gods plan, He actually wants most people to be surprised and shocked when He takes action. It will be the great test of our faith. 1 Peter 4:12

And let me say, that I will be surprised and shocked as well, although at least I will know what happens, comes from the Lord.
I read the graphic descriptions of the Lords Day of fiery wrath, and try to comprehend it all. But what will happen, is so far out from anything any of us has experienced before, a full understanding is impossible for us.

Wow, he just doesn't get it. Whoever taught you had to be anti Israel. For starters the DOTL arrives in Zechariah 14:1 right? And in Zech. 13:8-9 we see the 1/3 of Israel repent right? So, you are in error already. Of course Israel repents just before the DOTL. In Malachi 4:5-6 we see that Elijah is sent back before the DOTL to turn Israel back unto God.

Abraham was promised that Israel's seed would endure forever. Another error by you.

You guys who go down this road all misinterpret Gal. 3, Paul was never saying Jews and Gentiles are all one, he was saying how we all come unto the Lord in only one way. He was merely telling the Galatians that they do not have to try to become "Jewish" in order to make it unto heaven, they only have to believe in Jesus. That is why he said there are neither Male nor Female, not because there are no males nor females, but because when it comes to FAITH ALONE, that is how Jews, Gentiles, Males AND Females get reunited unto God. Reading the first half of Gal. 3 would show us why Paul is telling them this, he's calling them Foolish for leaving the Spirit (Faith) and returning to the Flesh (Laws of Moses) to try and please God. Then over and over he shows why the Law means nothing and that only Faith is accepted. This when he says there is neither Jew nor Gentile (AND Male & Female) he is not saying the Jews and Gentiles are ONE (There is where you go down a wrong path) but is instead saying as per us all coming unto God we can only do this by Faith in Christ Jesus alone. You guts never, ever, ever answer the question, if Paul meant the Jews and Gentiles are now ALL ONE, why are there still Males and Females? You never answer because it voids your whole thesis brother.

It is obvious Paul is telling them to stop trying to Be Jew Like, you can only come unto God by faith, not by keeping the Laws of Moses and in that one issue of Salvation we are all the same, bit Gentiles are not Israel, and Jews are not Gentiles, just like even though Women and Men have one way unto Christ (Faith we still have Women & Men.

Douggg · Wednesday at 12:37 PM

Fisherking said:
It is obvious Paul is telling them to stop trying to Be Jew Like, you can only come unto God by faith, not by keeping the Laws of Moses and in that one issue of Salvation we are all the same, bit Gentiles are not Israel, and Jews are not Gentiles, just like even though Women and Men have one way unto Christ (Faith we still have Women & Men.

Faith in what Jesus did on the cross for atonement of our sins.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

keras · Wednesday at 3:30 PM

Fisherking said:
Wow, he just doesn't get it.

What I 'get', is your agenda of having Jewish Israel on earth going thru tribulation, while you are raptured to heaven.
Sadly; this fanciful belief has no real scriptural support and cannot happen.

There is only one people of God, John 17:20-23, and during the end times, they are present in the Holy Land. Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-7
All the faithful believers from every tribe, race, nation and language. Rev 7:9

Spiritual Jew · Wednesday at 4:49 PM

Douggg said:
When discussing with another poster, don't include phrases like LOL, because it is inflammatory.

Don't try to tell me what to do.

Douggg said:
Also, don't include sentences like "You refuse to learn", because it is inflammatory.

See above.

Spiritual Jew · Wednesday at 4:54 PM

Fisherking said:
Wow, he just doesn't get it. Whoever taught you had to be anti Israel. For starters the DOTL arrives in Zechariah 14:1 right? And in Zech. 13:8-9 we see the 1/3 of Israel repent right? So, you are in error already. Of course Israel repents just before the DOTL. In Malachi 4:5-6 we see that Elijah is sent back before the DOTL to turn Israel back unto God.

Abraham was promised that Israel's seed would endure forever. Another error by you.

You guys who go down this road all misinterpret Gal. 3, Paul was never saying Jews and Gentiles are all one, he was saying how we all come unto the Lord in only one way.

He said that many times, so how can you deny that? Have you never read this...

Ephesians 2:11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. 19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Douggg · Wednesday at 5:23 PM

keras said:
What I 'get', is your agenda of having Jewish Israel on earth going thru tribulation, while you are raptured to heaven.

Yes, Jewish Israel will go through the great tribulation, during which they will turn to Jesus and the gospel of Salvation.

Meanwhile, in heaven, the resurrected and raptured saints will be in heaven before the judgment seat of Christ to receive rewards for what they did for the cause of Christ during their lifetimes. 2Corinthians5:10 Revelation 11:18

Spiritual Jew · Wednesday at 5:36 PM

Douggg said:
Yes, Jewish Israel will go through the great tribulation, during which they will turn to Jesus and the gospel of Salvation.

Meanwhile, in heaven, the resurrected and raptured saints will be in heaven before the judgment seat of Christ to receive rewards for what they did for the cause of Christ during their lifetimes. 2Corinthians5:10 Revelation 11:18

No one will be before the judgment seat of Christ until He returns with His angels, as is portrayed in Matthew 25:31-46. In Romans 14:10-12 and Philippians 2:10-11, Paul indicates that all people will bow down before Christ and confess that He is Lord and give an account of themselves and Matthew 25:31-46 indicates that all will stand before Christ at the same time, including unbelievers.

Also, why would you reference Revelation 11:18 in support of what you're saying here when not only will believers be rewarded at the seventh trumpet, but the dead, representing the unbelieving dead, will be resurrected and judged (condemned) at that time as well? And we can see a description of the dead being judged in Revelation 20:11-15.

Douggg · Wednesday at 5:39 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
Don't try to tell me what to do.

See above.

I am not trying to order you around. I was pointing out making inflammatory remarks is not the sort of communications Christians should be making to one another.

Paul said in Ephesians 4:29....

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

Spiritual Jew · Wednesday at 5:43 PM

Douggg said:
I am not trying to order you around.

Yes, you are.

Douggg said:
I was pointing out making inflammatory remarks is not the sort of communications Christians should be making to one another.

When someone says something that is obviously ridiculous, then I will not give their comments any respect and will point it out. Christians should not deal with scripture dishonestly as you do by creating your own definitions for words like you do with the word "generation" in Matthew 24:34 and "after" in Daniel 9:26.

Douggg said:
Paul said in Ephesians 4:29....

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

There's nothing corrupt about laughing at obvious nonsense and nothing corrupt about telling the truth, as I did when I said that keras refuses to learn. That is the truth.

And Jesus said...

Matthew 7:3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Aaron112 · Wednesday at 5:47 PM

Douggg said:
Paul said in Ephesians 4:29....

29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

So ? It is denied every hour on internet forums including this one, so what can be done to stop it ? Nothing according to the internet rules.

Questions and Answers

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Amillennialist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Active Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Amillennialist

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