Two in a bed one taken... where? Where there is a dead body, the vultures will gather. This means?

GreatMysteryofChrist · Tuesday at 11:13 AM

GoldenKingGaze said:
NLT Matthew 24:14
14And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nationsc will hear it; and then the end will come.

And NLT 1 Corinthians 10:9-11
9Nor should we put Christc to the test, as some of them did and then died from snakebites. 10And don’t grumble as some of them did, and then were destroyed by the angel of death. 11These things happened to them as examples for us. They were written down to warn us who live at the end of the age.

Ages are about 6000 years in length.

I see your pattern of early and latter rains. My view is Pentecostal.

The early church, warned by Paul about wolves was upright and not carnal except for some. Look at Timothy, Onesimus, Polycarp, Andronicus and Junias, also Clement.

Dear GoldenKingGaze,
God's creation is only about 6000 years old. The "ages" are much smaller and will to fit into this time frame.

The early churches that the Apostles and others started remained faithful for the most part while they waited for the Lord's return to pour out the Latter Rain on the babes who were also Elect.

In the scripture below, James is writing to faithful babes who were waiting for the Lord's return with the Latter Rain:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James was encouraging the babes (who had only received the Early Rain) to remain faithful and to be patient while they waited for the Lord's return to give them the Latter Rain. James even tells them that the Lord's return "draweth nigh". It was not some far off event as most people believe Christ's second coming to be.

However, after Paul's death, all the churches began quickly being devoured by the wolves via the spirit of anti-Christ - this included even the babes that James was addressing in his letter.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Notice how personal the coming apostasy was to Paul. He warned his churches day and night for three years with tears. Paul knew that many of the babes that he knew personally were going to be devoured by the wolves. He grieved for them. Paul knew the apostasy was not a far off event.

Even John said that the spirit of anti-Christ was already in the world around 90 A.D. when he wrote his letters.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Even the teachings of Christ where He teaches on the pathway to salvation include the coming apostasy. Two of those teachings are the parable of the Wheat and the Tares and the parable of the Ten Virgins. Also, all the prophecies of the book of Revelation include the apostasy as a step along the pathway to salvation. The prophecy of the Two Witnesses is a good example.

Since the death of Paul, no Elect babe has been able to avoid becoming apostate.

You quoted 1Cor 10:8-11. The NLT translation that you used is a very poor translation. Here is a better one:

1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer (Satan). 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The "ends of the ages" comes upon an Elect person when Christ returns to them with the Latter Rain and converts them. It is a reoccurring spiritual event that all the Elect will experience before they die.

The "fornication" that Paul mentions in verse 8 occurs when a babe spiritually fornicates with Satan. When a babe fornicates with Satan, they become unfaithful because they have accepted Satan's false gospel which mixes man's works with faith. In verse 9, Paul also compares committing this sin is like being bitten by "serpents". The scripture below does the same:

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a harlot is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increases the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (Old Wine), when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moves itself (man’s works) aright. 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder.

Since the end of the 1st century, all the churches were apostate. Over the centuries the apostate church has grown and waxed worse and worse. As Paul said, they teach "perverse things" - things like the Doctrines of Free Will and Hell. Today, all babes start off in the apostate church. For that reason, when Christ pours out the Latter Rain upon one of his Elect babes, their newly healed spiritual blindness will show them the truth of who they are; a man of sin who sits in God's Temple claiming to be God (2Thes 2:1-4).

This verse also applies:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of salvation/conversion) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (have become apostate/a man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

One last comment: I received the Latter Rain in 2005. At that time, I saw the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within me (God's Temple). After I did, I quickly fled to the mountains to avoid being harmed during the judgment that was coming to me. This is what Christ is teaching here:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: (like Lot did)

At the time I was converted, I had been attending a Pentecostal church for about a year and a half. But after my conversion, I left the church and never returned. There are no churches of any denomination that are not apostate. The one common teaching that they all have is to mix works with faith. The doctrine of Free Will is the foundational teaching of their false gospel. Some churches even deny that they teach free will but when you examine their beliefs, you will find that they actually do.

My conversion testimony is on my website that is shown below my member name if you have an interest in reading it.

Joe

GoldenKingGaze · Wednesday at 5:23 AM

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
Dear GoldenKingGaze,
God's creation is only about 6000 years old. The "ages" are much smaller and will to fit into this time frame.

The early churches that the Apostles and others started remained faithful for the most part while they waited for the Lord's return to pour out the Latter Rain on the babes who were also Elect.

In the scripture below, James is writing to faithful babes who were waiting for the Lord's return with the Latter Rain:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James was encouraging the babes (who had only received the Early Rain) to remain faithful and to be patient while they waited for the Lord's return to give them the Latter Rain. James even tells them that the Lord's return "draweth nigh". It was not some far off event as most people believe Christ's second coming to be.

However, after Paul's death, all the churches began quickly being devoured by the wolves via the spirit of anti-Christ - this included even the babes that James was addressing in his letter.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Notice how personal the coming apostasy was to Paul. He warned his churches day and night for three years with tears. Paul knew that many of the babes that he knew personally were going to be devoured by the wolves. He grieved for them. Paul knew the apostasy was not a far off event.

Even John said that the spirit of anti-Christ was already in the world around 90 A.D. when he wrote his letters.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Even the teachings of Christ where He teaches on the pathway to salvation include the coming apostasy. Two of those teachings are the parable of the Wheat and the Tares and the parable of the Ten Virgins. Also, all the prophecies of the book of Revelation include the apostasy as a step along the pathway to salvation. The prophecy of the Two Witnesses is a good example.

Since the death of Paul, no Elect babe has been able to avoid becoming apostate.

You quoted 1Cor 10:8-11. The NLT translation that you used is a very poor translation. Here is a better one:

1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer (Satan). 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The "ends of the ages" comes upon an Elect person when Christ returns to them with the Latter Rain and converts them. It is a reoccurring spiritual event that all the Elect will experience before they die.

The "fornication" that Paul mentions in verse 8 occurs when a babe spiritually fornicates with Satan. When a babe fornicates with Satan, they become unfaithful because they have accepted Satan's false gospel which mixes man's works with faith. In verse 9, Paul also compares committing this sin is like being bitten by "serpents". The scripture below does the same:

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a harlot is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increases the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (Old Wine), when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moves itself (man’s works) aright. 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder.

Since the end of the 1st century, all the churches were apostate. Over the centuries the apostate church has grown and waxed worse and worse. As Paul said, they teach "perverse things" - things like the Doctrines of Free Will and Hell. Today, all babes start off in the apostate church. For that reason, when Christ pours out the Latter Rain upon one of his Elect babes, their newly healed spiritual blindness will show them the truth of who they are; a man of sin who sits in God's Temple claiming to be God (2Thes 2:1-4).

This verse also applies:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of salvation/conversion) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (have become apostate/a man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

One last comment: I received the Latter Rain in 2005. At that time, I saw the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within me (God's Temple). After I did, I quickly fled to the mountains to avoid being harmed during the judgment that was coming to me. This is what Christ is teaching here:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: (like Lot did)

At the time I was converted, I had been attending a Pentecostal church for about a year and a half. But after my conversion, I left the church and never returned. There are no churches of any denomination that are not apostate. The one common teaching that they all have is to mix works with faith. The doctrine of Free Will is the foundational teaching of their false gospel. Some churches even deny that they teach free will but when you examine their beliefs, you will find that they actually do.

My conversion testimony is on my website that is shown below my member name if you have an interest in reading it.

Joe

I use the NLT, KJV, NKJV and YLT mostly.
Joel and the latter rain is mentioned in Acts. I think the early church worked until Nero and other persecutors killed off the leaders, and the impartation of grace grew weak. But the falling away only really began with the trouble of Islam, the wars, the politicised Roman Catholic Church, in the 9th century. The scandals and the pagan style killing of heretics under the Inquisition.

GoldenKingGaze · Wednesday at 6:47 AM

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
Dear GoldenKingGaze,
God's creation is only about 6000 years old. The "ages" are much smaller and will to fit into this time frame.

The early churches that the Apostles and others started remained faithful for the most part while they waited for the Lord's return to pour out the Latter Rain on the babes who were also Elect.

In the scripture below, James is writing to faithful babes who were waiting for the Lord's return with the Latter Rain:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

James was encouraging the babes (who had only received the Early Rain) to remain faithful and to be patient while they waited for the Lord's return to give them the Latter Rain. James even tells them that the Lord's return "draweth nigh". It was not some far off event as most people believe Christ's second coming to be.

However, after Paul's death, all the churches began quickly being devoured by the wolves via the spirit of anti-Christ - this included even the babes that James was addressing in his letter.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Notice how personal the coming apostasy was to Paul. He warned his churches day and night for three years with tears. Paul knew that many of the babes that he knew personally were going to be devoured by the wolves. He grieved for them. Paul knew the apostasy was not a far off event.

Even John said that the spirit of anti-Christ was already in the world around 90 A.D. when he wrote his letters.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Even the teachings of Christ where He teaches on the pathway to salvation include the coming apostasy. Two of those teachings are the parable of the Wheat and the Tares and the parable of the Ten Virgins. Also, all the prophecies of the book of Revelation include the apostasy as a step along the pathway to salvation. The prophecy of the Two Witnesses is a good example.

Since the death of Paul, no Elect babe has been able to avoid becoming apostate.

You quoted 1Cor 10:8-11. The NLT translation that you used is a very poor translation. Here is a better one:

1Cor 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer (Satan). 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The "ends of the ages" comes upon an Elect person when Christ returns to them with the Latter Rain and converts them. It is a reoccurring spiritual event that all the Elect will experience before they die.

The "fornication" that Paul mentions in verse 8 occurs when a babe spiritually fornicates with Satan. When a babe fornicates with Satan, they become unfaithful because they have accepted Satan's false gospel which mixes man's works with faith. In verse 9, Paul also compares committing this sin is like being bitten by "serpents". The scripture below does the same:

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a harlot is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increases the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (Old Wine), when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moves itself (man’s works) aright. 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder.

Since the end of the 1st century, all the churches were apostate. Over the centuries the apostate church has grown and waxed worse and worse. As Paul said, they teach "perverse things" - things like the Doctrines of Free Will and Hell. Today, all babes start off in the apostate church. For that reason, when Christ pours out the Latter Rain upon one of his Elect babes, their newly healed spiritual blindness will show them the truth of who they are; a man of sin who sits in God's Temple claiming to be God (2Thes 2:1-4).

This verse also applies:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of salvation/conversion) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (have become apostate/a man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

One last comment: I received the Latter Rain in 2005. At that time, I saw the Abomination of Desolation that had previously occurred within me (God's Temple). After I did, I quickly fled to the mountains to avoid being harmed during the judgment that was coming to me. This is what Christ is teaching here:

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: (like Lot did)

At the time I was converted, I had been attending a Pentecostal church for about a year and a half. But after my conversion, I left the church and never returned. There are no churches of any denomination that are not apostate. The one common teaching that they all have is to mix works with faith. The doctrine of Free Will is the foundational teaching of their false gospel. Some churches even deny that they teach free will but when you examine their beliefs, you will find that they actually do.

My conversion testimony is on my website that is shown below my member name if you have an interest in reading it.

Joe

Your beliefs are non Nicene Creed, and in the forums the section for such discussions is "Unorthodox Theology".

GreatMysteryofChrist · Wednesday at 8:48 AM

GoldenKingGaze said:
I use the NLT, KJV, NKJV and YLT mostly.
Joel and the latter rain is mentioned in Acts. I think the early church worked until Nero and other persecutors killed off the leaders, and the impartation of grace grew weak. But the falling away only really began with the trouble of Islam, the wars, the politicised Roman Catholic Church, in the 9th century. The scandals and the pagan style killing of heretics under the Inquisition.

Dear GoldenKingGaze,
Do you understand what it means to "fall away"?

Falling away (falling from grace) is the result of a "babe" committing the one and only sin that leads to death (1John 5:16). All other sins are covered by the blood of Christ.

So what is the sin that leads to death?

This scripture tells us:

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a harlot is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increases the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (Old Wine/Old Covenant), when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moves itself (man’s works) aright. 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder.

The sin that leads to death occurs when a believer accepts Satan's "another gospel" which teaches the crooked way to God. Because Satan teaches the crooked way, Satan is called the crooked serpent (Job 26:13).

The crooked way is to approach God for salvation by the works of man. This world calls this way "religion".

The crooked way is the pathway to God that is required by the Old Covenant of Law. Of course, that pathway cannot lead to God because mankind cannot perfectly keep the law. When a babe realizes this truth, the Old Covenant will lead them to Christ and the New Covenant. Under the New Covenant, Christ will do 100% of the works for a person's salvation. When a babe adds even just one work to the works of Christ, they will fall from grace.

After the apostasy came into the church, the Doctrine of Free Will was created. It is this false doctrine that is the foundational belief that causes a babe to add their own works to the works of Christ. Because of that doctrine, a babe will claim that they made the choice to the accept Christ from their own free will ability that they claim to have. However, only God has a free will ability. When a babe says that they have this ability, they are sitting in God's Temple (their body) claiming to be God (2Thes 2:1-4). It is at this point that a babe will fall from grace and become a man of sin (an apostate believer).

Under the New Covenant, Christ is the one who causes a person to have faith and to make a confession faith.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Christ prepares the person's heart by freely giving the person a small measure of the Holy Spirit. This small measure of the Holy Spirit is called the Early Rain.

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small Rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in Jehovah your God; for he giveth you the Early Rain in just measure (a small amount), and he causes to come down for you the Rain, the Early Rain and the Latter Rain, in the first month.

After a person receives the Early Rain, the only choice that they will make when presented the gospel, is to accept Christ and to make a confession of faith.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

In the marriage analogy, the small measure of the Holy Spirit is what spiritually changes a person into a "virgin" who is espoused to Christ.

2Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

After a babe commits the sin that leads to death, they cannot be renewed by repentance:

Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and age-enduring judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift (Early Rain/a small measure of the Spirit), and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God (milk), and the powers of the world to come 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Since an apostate babe cannot be renewed by repentance, are they lost forever? Certainly not.

Though Paul does not present the solution in the scripture above, other scriptures do (here a little and there a little, Isa 28:9-12). The solution is for Christ to "come again" and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit upon the apostate babe. With the baptism of the Spirit, the apostate babe will be spiritually restored and will repent of their works. After they do, the new child of God will be born and gathered to heaven (spiritually speaking).

Here is one of the places in scripture that shows a babe's moment of restoration and new birth just after they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit:

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In the spiritual language of Christ, those who dwell in the "sea" are unbelievers. Those who dwell upon the "earth" are unconverted babes who remain spiritually blind and carnally minded. Those who dwell in "heaven" are the converted Elect believers. The sea, earth and heaven are not physical locations. They are spirit words which represent a person's spiritual state of being. When a babe is converted, their spiritual state of being changes. This change for a "born again" person is represented by their being gathered to heaven. This is not the rapture (false doctrine) or the resurrection from the grave.

Does what I have explained above make sense to you?

After I received the Latter Rain which open my eyes to Christ's New Covenant teachings, I was rejected by the Pentecostal church that I was attending. They could not accept the truth that salvation is a free gift from God and that does not require any works from mankind to receive it. And because salvation does not require any works from a person, Christ will easily accomplish the mission that His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

In this age, Christ is ONLY saving the blessed individuals who were chosen for an early salvation. They are the Elect and the first fruits of Christ's harvest of mankind. In the final age, Christ will save the balance of mankind when He is judging them in the Lake of Fire (represents judgment, not literal fire). At that time, Christ will have MERCY upon each person before they perish from the penalty of the Law. His mercy will come to them as the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. With the Spirit within them, they will have FAITH and be born again as a child of God. The newly born child of God will then be gathered to heaven. The child of the Devil (who they used to be) will remain in the Lake of Fire until he perishes. This death will satisfy JUSTICE.

These verses apply to Christ's judgment of the lost in the Lake of Fire:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: JUSTICE, MERCY, AND FAITH: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

By the end of that final age, Christ will have accomplished the mission that His Father gave Him to save the world.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Rom 5:18 so then as it was by one offence towards all men to condemnation, so by one righteousness towards all men for justification of life. 19 For as indeed by the disobedience of the one man the many have been constituted sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be constituted righteous.

This truth that I have explained above is the true GOOD NEWS that should be taught to this world.

Joe

GreatMysteryofChrist · Wednesday at 9:45 AM

GoldenKingGaze said:
Your beliefs are non Nicene Creed, and in the forums the section for such discussions is "Unorthodox Theology".

Dear GoldenKingGaze,
Here is the Nicene Greed:

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

I believe and teach everything that is stated above except for recoginizing the Holy Catholic church as the true church. The apostolic church that the Apostles started, along with its teachings of truth as recorded in the NT, is the one true church.

Do you accept the teachings of the Holy Catholic church or is that an exception for you, too?

Joe

timothyu · Wednesday at 1:20 PM

Others, not self

GoldenKingGaze · 2025-08-21T02:28:10-0500

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
Dear GoldenKingGaze,
Here is the Nicene Greed:

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

I believe and teach everything that is stated above except for recoginizing the Holy Catholic church as the true church. The apostolic church that the Apostles started, along with its teachings of truth as recorded in the NT, is the one true church.

Do you accept the teachings of the Holy Catholic church or is that an exception for you, too?

Joe

The Nicene Creed is Trinitarian.

David Lamb · 2025-08-21T02:48:09-0500

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
I believe and teach everything that is stated above except for recoginizing the Holy Catholic church as the true church. The apostolic church that the Apostles started, along with its teachings of truth as recorded in the NT, is the one true church.

Do you accept the teachings of the Holy Catholic church or is that an exception for you, too?

Joe

"Catholic" in the Nicene Creed has a small c. It just means world-wide, universal. It doesn't refer only the the Roman Catholic denomination.

Apple Sky · 2025-08-21T03:17:55-0500

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
Do you accept the teachings of the Holy Catholic church

Does Jesus ?

David Lamb · 2025-08-21T04:38:39-0500

Apple Sky said:
Does Jesus ?

The catholic (small c) church just means the world-wide, universal church, the church that Jesus said He would build and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. That is the church mentioned in the creeds. The creeds don't say, "I believe in the Roman Catholic Church."

Apple Sky · 2025-08-21T05:54:50-0500

David Lamb said:
The catholic (small c) church just means the world-wide, universal church, the church that Jesus said He would build and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. That is the church mentioned in the creeds. The creeds don't say, "I believe in the Roman Catholic Church."

Believe it or not, Jesus only used the word “church” twice. On the first occasion, Jesus speaks prophetically to his disciple Peter in Matthew 16:18.

David Lamb · 2025-08-21T06:09:14-0500

Apple Sky said:
Believe it or not, Jesus only used the word “church” twice. On the first occasion, Jesus speaks prophetically to his disciple Peter in Matthew 16:18.

Yes, I agree. Nit sure how it answers my post though.

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-21T08:57:25-0500

David Lamb said:
"Catholic" in the Nicene Creed has a small c. It just means world-wide, universal. It doesn't refer only the the Roman Catholic denomination.

Dear David Lamb,
Yes, I am aware it means "all encompassing" but some people still relate it to the Catholic church. I only did so to make a point with GoldenKingGaze.
Joe

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-21T09:00:03-0500

GoldenKingGaze said:
The Nicene Creed is Trinitarian.

Dear GoldenKingGaze,
You are reading into it words it does not say. I would discuss it more but it is not allowed on this forum.
Joe

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-21T09:02:17-0500

Apple Sky said:
Does Jesus ?

Dear Apple Sky,
Jesus is the Word of God. It is up to mankind and even the Catholic church to agree with Him - not the other way around.
Joe

Apple Sky · 2025-08-21T09:11:54-0500

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
Dear Apple Sky,
Jesus is the Word of God. It is up to mankind and even the Catholic church to agree with Him - not the other way around.
Joe

That's what I'm saying, if Jesus believes it then so do I.

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-21T09:54:41-0500

Apple Sky said:
That's what I'm saying, if Jesus believes it then so do I.

Dear Apple Sky,
So you receive your truth from Christ & scripture and not from what others (especially churches) teach?

Do you understand and believe what Christ says here:

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

It is related to this verse:

Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

Joe

timothyu · 2025-08-21T10:19:26-0500

People forget (or is it purposely ignore) that Jesus’ only human enemy here was religion. The same would hold true today. Rules and ritual rather than a way of life.

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-21T11:17:42-0500

timothyu said:
People forget (or is it purposely ignore) that Jesus’ only human enemy here was religion. The same would hold true today. Rules and ritual rather than a way of life.

Dear Timothyu,
I want to expand on what you stated in your post about religion.

Religion is man's self effort to make themselves acceptable to God. Man's self effort is what the Old Covenant of Law is founded upon. Scripture calls this the crooked way.

When a person realizes that they can never be acceptable to God by their own efforts (works), this knowledge will be their schoolmaster that will led them to Christ and the New Covenant. Scripture calls the New Covenant the straight way.

The New Covenant is founded solely upon the works of Christ to make a person acceptable to God. Even a person's faith and their acceptance of Him as their Lord is freely given to them by Christ. Christ leaves nothing up to chance or to the individual concerning their salvation. He alone causes it to happen and He causes it to happen at a time of His own choosing. The individual has no say in the matter. If they did, it would be a work.

To begin the salvation process within a person, Christ will come to a person without the person's asking and without their permission. When Christ comes, He will freely give them a small measure of the Holy Spirit. This small measure of the Holy Spirit is called the Early Rain. With this small measure of the Spirit, the person will have a measure of faith and will (100% of the time) submit to Christ and call Him "Lord".

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Without the free gift of the Spirit, no one would ever have any faith in Christ or submit to His authority over their lives.

Because Christ is the one who changes a person's heart to accept Him as Lord, scripture gives all the credit to Christ and none to the individual:

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Paul's Damascus Road experience is when Paul received the small measure of the Spirit. With the Early Rain of the Spirit, Paul fell to his knees and called Jesus "Lord" (Acts 9:3-6). This is when Christ made Paul into a babe and called Paul to be a saint.

But since the Early Rain is only a small measure of the Spirit and not the baptism, a new babe in Christ will remain spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted. In this condition, they will be easy prey for Satan's deceptions. And since the babe remains carnally minded, they will still prefer the Old Wine (Religion) over the New Wine. Because they do, the babe will accept Satan's false gospel which mixes the Old Wine with the New Wine. This mixed wine is very deceiving. When a babe accepts this false gospel, they will have been bitten by Satan and will spiritually die.

Prov 23:26 My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways. 27 For a harlot is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increases the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red (Old Wine), when it giveth his color in the cup, when it moves itself (man’s works) aright. 32 At the last it bites like a serpent, and stings like an adder.

When a babe accepts Satan's mixed wine, they will have committed the one and only sin that leads to death. The babe will then become apostate and will fall from grace. This happens because the babe is no longer faithful to Christ but has spiritually fornicated with Satan. At this point, they are no longer justified.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the foundational teaching of the apostate church that supports Satan's false gospel of mixed wine.

A babe will stay in this unfaithful and apostate condition until they die if they are not one of the Elect. If they are one of the Elect, Christ will "come again" to them before they die and will pour out the baptism of the Spirit. This is also called the Latter Rain.

This verse applies:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (day of salvation/conversion) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see (spiritual blindness healed) that your wickedness is great (have become apostate/a man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

With the baptism of the Spirit, the person will be restored to faith and will be "born again". Judgment will then follow their new birth to remove the chaff (all the spiritual things that has made them carnally minded and sinful) from within them. After this judgment is complete, the person will be converted and will have entered the Kingdom of Heaven. They will never again practice religion or be deceived by Satan. Their salvation is now secure.

Because a person's salvation occurs solely from the works of Christ that He does within them, the person has no works of their own that they can boast about concerning their salvation. Their salvation was truly a free gift from God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Because mankind's salvation does not require anything from the individual for them to be saved, it is a 100% certainty that Christ will not fail in the mission that His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

By the end of the next and final age, the truth that is proclaimed in the scripture below will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Jesus Christ is truly the Savior of all mankind and not just a small portion as the apostate churches of this world teach.

Joe

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-21T11:42:59-0500

timothyu said:
People forget (or is it purposely ignore) that Jesus’ only human enemy here was religion. The same would hold true today. Rules and ritual rather than a way of life.

Dear timothyu,
One other point to keep in line with the theme of this thread: The spirit word "chaff" that is used in the farming analogy represents the same thing as the ones who are "taken" in Mat 24:40-41. It's just a different way of showing the judgment portion of the spiritual process of conversion.

In other words, the natural spiritual makeup of the person is removed and destroyed. It is this natural spiritual makeup that caused the person to become a child of the Devil. The new spiritual makeup of the person that makes them into a child of God is represented by the ones who are left.
Joe

Two in a bed one taken... where? Where there is a dead body, the vultures will gather. This means?

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