All humans are 50th cousins?

RileyG · Monday at 3:50 PM

Anyone ever heard about this? All humans are extended from the same mitochondrial Eve who lived about 200,000 years ago, and therefore, are related.

Life came out of Africa.

Thoughts?

Ophiolite · Monday at 4:06 PM

RileyG said:
Anyone ever heard about this? All humans are extended from the same mitochondrial Eve who lived about 200,000 years ago, and therefore, are related.

Life came out of Africa.

Thoughts?

It's slightly more complex than you've presented, but it's probably best to let it run on the questions as asked, unless it goes seriously off piste.

I think you were implying, correctly that human life came out of Africa. And yes, very definitely, of course we are all related, which makes things like racism not just dangerous and bad, but outrageously stupid. Since I accept evolutionary theory I know I am related to every living thing on the planet. I find it pleasing to reflect on how far back I have to go to find a common ancestor with my cat, or with the sheep grazing behind my house, the magpies circling overhead, or the nettles I can never quite get rid of.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Monday at 4:07 PM

Well, it is the reason why humans can donate blood and organs to someone on the other side of the country or even world to us. You can't do that if we aren't related genetically.

As an interesting counterpoint, chimps and gorillas, though possessing a much smaller population overall and much more localized ones too, are much more genetically diverse in their own populations to other chimps or gorillas.

RileyG · Monday at 4:15 PM

Ophiolite said:
It's slightly more complex than you've presented, but it's probably best to let it run on the questions as asked, unless it goes seriously off piste.

I think you were implying, correctly that human life came out of Africa. And yes, very definitely, of course we are all related, which makes things like racism not just dangerous and bad, but outrageously stupid. Since I accept evolutionary theory I know I am related to every living thing on the planet. I find it pleasing to reflect on how far back I have to go to find a common ancestor with my cat, or with the sheep grazing behind my house, the magpies circling overhead, or the nettles I can never quite get rid of.

That's quite fascinating to think about, to say the least!

RileyG · Monday at 4:16 PM

Warden_of_the_Storm said:
Well, it is the reason why humans can donate blood and organs to someone on the other side of the country or even world to us. You can't do that if we aren't related genetically.

As an interesting counterpoint, chimps and gorillas, though possessing a much smaller population overall and much more localized ones too, are much more genetically diverse in their own populations to other chimps or gorillas.

Ah! That reminds me of something.

Aren't chimps and bonobos separate species because of where they ended up? Chimps tend to be aggressive, where as bonobos tend to be more peaceful.

IIRC, there was a hybrid between a chimp and a bonobo. I have no idea if she is still living or not.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Monday at 4:29 PM

RileyG said:
Ah! That reminds me of something.

Aren't chimps and bonobos separate species because of where they ended up? Chimps tend to be aggressive, where as bonobos tend to be more peaceful.

IIRC, there was a hybrid between a chimp and a bonobo. I have no idea if she is still living or not.

I had to go and look it up myself, but it is the most likely thing. It does stand to reason that, if two populations of the same animal split off, with one remaining where it is and the other migrating to another location with different environment pressures, then we would see adaptation/evolution take place to make the latter population more fit to their environment. 1 to 2 million years is more than enough time for chimps and bonobos to, while still showing a similar body plan, to evolve different morphological and sociological changes in response to a different environment. Bonobo ancestors moved to a location with more plentiful food, and while still holding the same ecological place in the food chain they had, there was less call for interspecies confrontation, resulting in a much more placid lifestyle and behaviour.

As to their hybridization, between chimps and bonobos, there have been incidents occurring in captivity, with Tiby (which I think is the individual you're thinking of) starring in the 2017 Swedish film The Square. Can't find anything on whether they're still alive or not. And, as should be evident, such a thing could only happen if they shared significant genetic similarities, which between chimps and bonobos is... 99% similarity.

Bradskii · Monday at 5:24 PM

RileyG said:
Anyone ever heard about this? All humans are extended from the same mitochondrial Eve who lived about 200,000 years ago, and therefore, are related.

You have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparent. That's 3 generations...say 120 years. By the 9th century you have over a billion great great etc grand parents. Which is about 4 times the population of the world at that time. You and I are obviously related.

Humans Are All More Closely Related Than We Commonly Think

Humanity’s most recent common ancestor and so-called genetic isopoint illustrate the surprising connections among our family trees

www.scientificamerican.com

RileyG · Monday at 5:53 PM

Bradskii said:
You have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparent. That's 3 generations...say 120 years. By the 9th century you have over a billion great great etc grand parents. Which is about 4 times the population of the world at that time. You and I are obviously related.

Humans Are All More Closely Related Than We Commonly Think

Humanity’s most recent common ancestor and so-called genetic isopoint illustrate the surprising connections among our family trees

www.scientificamerican.com

It's quite investing to think about how billions and billions are related! I dunno.

Warden_of_the_Storm · Monday at 6:02 PM

Bradskii said:
You have 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great grandparent. That's 3 generations...say 120 years. By the 9th century you have over a billion great great etc grand parents. Which is about 4 times the population of the world at that time. You and I are obviously related.

Humans Are All More Closely Related Than We Commonly Think

Humanity’s most recent common ancestor and so-called genetic isopoint illustrate the surprising connections among our family trees

www.scientificamerican.com

In that case, can I borrow some money?

(I could not resist making that joke. I'm sorry.)

DragonFox91 · Monday at 6:05 PM

Yeah, Genesis 1 & 2!

Warden_of_the_Storm · Monday at 6:19 PM

DragonFox91 said:
Yeah, Genesis 1 & 2!

Yes those are parts of the Bible.

AV1611VET · Monday at 6:51 PM

RileyG said:
Anyone ever heard about this?

Yes -- ad nauseum.

RileyG said:
Thoughts?

Prayers.

RileyG · Monday at 6:57 PM

AV1611VET said:
Yes -- ad nauseum.

Prayers.

From where, may I ask?

public hermit · Monday at 6:59 PM

RileyG said:
Anyone ever heard about this? All humans are extended from the same mitochondrial Eve who lived about 200,000 years ago, and therefore, are related.

Life came out of Africa.

Thoughts?

I keep telling people my family is full of weirdos and rapscallians.

AV1611VET · Monday at 7:06 PM

RileyG said:
From where, may I ask?

Do you mean where did I hear that from?

From here.

As I understand it, they say mtdnaEve, which stands for "mitochondrial DNA Eve," is the oldest known human female.

Her counterpart is y-Adam, who is our oldest known male.

They didn't really know each other.

From AI Overview:

According to recent genetic studies, mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam lived around the same time, with their estimated dates overlapping. Specifically, Y-chromosomal Adam is estimated to have lived between 120,000 and 156,000 years ago, while mitochondrial Eve is estimated to have lived between 99,000 and 148,000 years ago, according to a study published in Nature. This suggests that the two most recent common ancestors for all humans (one for the Y chromosome and one for mitochondrial DNA) lived during a similar period, rather than being separated by a large gap in time as previously thought.

Prior to these studies, estimates for Y-chromosomal Adam's age were significantly lower than those for mitochondrial Eve, leading to the idea that they lived far apart in time. However, more recent research, using improved methods for analyzing Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA variations, has narrowed the gap in their estimated ages.

AV1611VET · Monday at 7:13 PM

RileyG said:
Anyone ever heard about this? All humans are extended from the same mitochondrial Eve who lived about 200,000 years ago, and therefore, are related.

Life came out of Africa.

Thoughts?

Also from AI Overview:

While the exact number can vary, it is generally accepted that everyone alive today is related as cousins, and that the relationship is likely at least 50th cousins. This is due to the interconnectedness of human ancestry and the fact that family trees double with each generation, eventually encompassing more individuals than have ever existed.

Paul said ...

Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Tuur · Monday at 8:42 PM

RileyG said:
Anyone ever heard about this? All humans are extended from the same mitochondrial Eve who lived about 200,000 years ago, and therefore, are related.

Life came out of Africa.

Thoughts?

I'm looking at the 50th cousins, and wondering:

1st generation are siblings.
2nd are cousins.
3rd are 2nd cousins.
So to get to 50th cousins we'd need 50+1 generations. Allowing 25 years per generation, that's a measly 1,275 years. However, there's a big problem: This assumes each generation does not marry any kin, distant or otherwise. And that how far apart everyone would be from each other would depend on the population size.

Looking at it as the number of people required for each person to marry someone who isn't kin, and keeping this trimmed to two individuals in each generation, 2 siblings would need 2 people for a total of four. Next generation, 4 people needs 4 for a total of 16. Next generation, 8 people need eight people for a total of 64. So the totals are 2, 4, 16, 64, or 2^generation. Since 50th cousins need 51 generations, 2"51 = 2.2518x10^15. Over 2 quadrillion people at the level of the 51st generation. Current world population is 8.2 billion, or 8.2 x10^9. It's looking doubtful that anyone is even a 50th cousin.

If we go 2^X = 8.2x10^9: X*log2 = log(8.2x10^9); X = log(8.2X10^9)/log(2) = 32.933. Subtracting 1 from that and it's 31st to 32nd cousin at the most and most likely much closer than that, particularly given that marriage between couples who come from opposite sides of the globe wasn't even possible until the last few hundred years, and even then somewhat rare.

Just a very rough estimate, of course.

Hans Blaster · Monday at 9:54 PM

Tuur said:
I'm looking at the 50th cousins, and wondering:

1st generation are siblings.
2nd are cousins.
3rd are 2nd cousins.
So to get to 50th cousins we'd need 50+1 generations. Allowing 25 years per generation, that's a measly 1,275 years. However, there's a big problem: This assumes each generation does not marry any kin, distant or otherwise. And that how far apart everyone would be from each other would depend on the population size.

Looking at it as the number of people required for each person to marry someone who isn't kin, and keeping this trimmed to two individuals in each generation, 2 siblings would need 2 people for a total of four. Next generation, 4 people needs 4 for a total of 16. Next generation, 8 people need eight people for a total of 64. So the totals are 2, 4, 16, 64, or 2^generation. Since 50th cousins need 51 generations, 2"51 = 2.2518x10^15. Over 2 quadrillion people at the level of the 51st generation. Current world population is 8.2 billion, or 8.2 x10^9. It's looking doubtful that anyone is even a 50th cousin.

If we go 2^X = 8.2x10^9: X*log2 = log(8.2x10^9); X = log(8.2X10^9)/log(2) = 32.933. Subtracting 1 from that and it's 31st to 32nd cousin at the most and most likely much closer than that, particularly given that marriage between couples who come from opposite sides of the globe wasn't even possible until the last few hundred years, and even then somewhat rare.

Just a very rough estimate, of course.

Many years ago I saw this same information put it in terms of one common "brag about" ancestors:

All living Europeans* are descended from Charlemagne. In fact every person living in Europe in 800 CE either is the ancestor of all living Europeans or none of them. Interconnections between more distant regions are harder, but it only takes *one* ancestor from another distant region that is also ancestor to their whole home region for everyone in both regions to be 50th cousins. (Overall the 50th cousin claim probably doesn't work because of the isolation of Australia and the Americas, but in the "Old World", probably.)

*including non-European descendants of Europeans and not necessarily including recent immigrants to Europe.

RileyG · Monday at 9:55 PM

Tuur said:
I'm looking at the 50th cousins, and wondering:

1st generation are siblings.
2nd are cousins.
3rd are 2nd cousins.
So to get to 50th cousins we'd need 50+1 generations. Allowing 25 years per generation, that's a measly 1,275 years. However, there's a big problem: This assumes each generation does not marry any kin, distant or otherwise. And that how far apart everyone would be from each other would depend on the population size.

Looking at it as the number of people required for each person to marry someone who isn't kin, and keeping this trimmed to two individuals in each generation, 2 siblings would need 2 people for a total of four. Next generation, 4 people needs 4 for a total of 16. Next generation, 8 people need eight people for a total of 64. So the totals are 2, 4, 16, 64, or 2^generation. Since 50th cousins need 51 generations, 2"51 = 2.2518x10^15. Over 2 quadrillion people at the level of the 51st generation. Current world population is 8.2 billion, or 8.2 x10^9. It's looking doubtful that anyone is even a 50th cousin.

If we go 2^X = 8.2x10^9: X*log2 = log(8.2x10^9); X = log(8.2X10^9)/log(2) = 32.933. Subtracting 1 from that and it's 31st to 32nd cousin at the most and most likely much closer than that, particularly given that marriage between couples who come from opposite sides of the globe wasn't even possible until the last few hundred years, and even then somewhat rare.

Just a very rough estimate, of course.

Wow! I didn’t even think of the math! Very interesting!

RileyG · Monday at 9:56 PM

Hans Blaster said:
Many years ago I saw this same information put it in terms of one common "brag about" ancestors:

All living Europeans* are descended from Charlemagne. In fact every person living in Europe in 800 CE either is the ancestor of all living Europeans or none of them. Interconnections between more distant regions are harder, but it only takes *one* ancestor from another distant region that is also ancestor to their whole home region for everyone in both regions to be 50th cousins. (Overall the 50th cousin claim probably doesn't work because of the isolation of Australia and the Americas, but in the "Old World", probably.)

*including non-European descendants of Europeans and not necessarily including recent immigrants to Europe.

I’ve heard that as well! Even though the earths population is quite large, it’s amazing how “small” the world really is.

All humans are 50th cousins?

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