How should have Christians historically addressed Islam?

Hoping2 · Monday at 11:01 PM

chevyontheriver said:
Who are those 'folks' now that you have mentioned being taught doctrine by them?

The "church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)".

Ignatius the Kiwi · Monday at 11:04 PM

Hoping2 said:
The folks whose lives testify to the glory of God.
They who walk as Jesus walked.
Faith comes by hearing, so it is those whom I heard.

And there were no Christians before these folks. They didnt exist during the Islamic conquests therefore they're irrelevant.

Hoping2 said:
As the church I am a part of is named in the bible, (Eph 3:21), I cannot agree with your POV.

And said Church in your view died out immediately after the Apostles until those 'folks' came about. It really doesn't matter. Your religion will die with you as it's been dead throughout most of history. Therefore it doesn't really matter what the rest of us Christians have done or will do.

Hoping2 · Monday at 11:25 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
And there were no Christians before these folks. They didnt exist during the Islamic conquests therefore they're irrelevant.

You are mistaken.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
And said Church in your view died out immediately after the Apostles until those 'folks' came about.

You are mistaken.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
It really doesn't matter. Your religion will die with you as it's been dead throughout most of history.

You are mistaken.

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Therefore it doesn't really matter what the rest of us Christians have done or will do.

A day of judgement is coming, wherein all men will get their just desserts.
What you "do" matters a lot.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Monday at 11:33 PM

Hoping2 said:
You are mistaken.

You are mistaken.

You are mistaken.

A day of judgement is coming, wherein all men will get their just desserts.
What you "do" matters a lot.

I am not mistaken. Your church did not exist during the Islamic conquest. Why does your opinion matter? You have nothing to offer except becoming a Dhimmi, allowing rape, allowing murder. Your Gospel is one where evil is free to perpetuate where responsibility towards others does not exist and where you condemn those who suffer at the hands of evildoers as having deserved it.

Hoping2 · Monday at 11:37 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
I am not mistaken. Your church did not exist during the Islamic conquest. Why does your opinion matter? You have nothing to offer except becoming a Dhimmi, allowing rape, allowing murder.

You are mistaken.
I offer a life without sinning.
With a true, real turn from sin, one becomes a non-sinner.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ washes away all past sins.
With these two actions, you are promised the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Cleansed, non-sinners, with the Holy Spirit in them, have existed since Acts 2.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Monday at 11:39 PM

Hoping2 said:
You are mistaken.
I offer a life without sinning.
With a true, real turn from sin, one becomes a non-sinner.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ washes away all past sins.
With these two actions, you are promised the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Cleansed, non-sinners, with the Holy Spirit in them, have existed since Acts 2.

Again, not mistaken. Your faith didnt exist during the spread of Islam. You are irrelevant.

Hoping2 · Monday at 11:41 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Again, not mistaken. Your faith didnt exist during the spread of Islam. You are irrelevant.

If it died out somewhere along the line, then the gates of hell prevailed against it.
They have not.
To the glory of God !

Ignatius the Kiwi · Monday at 11:45 PM

Hoping2 said:
If it died out somewhere along the line, then the gates of hell prevailed against it.
They have not.
To the glory of God !

You said it, not I. Only those Christians who defended each other survived. There were none like you who survived.

chevyontheriver · Tuesday at 7:50 AM

Hoping2 said:
The "church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21)".

That was deliberately elusive. What’s your bishop’s name? What diocese is he bishop of? Are you reticent to name the folks who taught you the doctrine you follow?

RileyG · Tuesday at 10:16 AM

chevyontheriver said:
Jesus was Priest, Prophet, and King. So he can be, he is, Messiah and Prophet. Islam has a different take on Jesus though. To them Jesus is the second greatest prophet after Mohammad. Just a prophet, Not a priest. Not a king.

Amen! Jesus is the King of Kings!

Hoping2 · Tuesday at 2:02 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
You said it, not I. Only those Christians who defended each other survived. There were none like you who survived.

As the church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21) is the evidence that the gates of hell have not prevailed against the original church, you should go be a dissident to someone else.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Tuesday at 2:05 PM

Hoping2 said:
As the church by Christ Jesus (Eph 3:21) is the evidence that the gates of hell have not prevailed against the original church, you should go be a dissident to someone else.

Where was your church during the whole 2000 year history? Then where was it during the islamic invasion? By your own standards, the gates of hell. It did prevail against the church. Because you can't point to a single person who was a christian at that time.Who you would consider a brother and sister in faith.

Hoping2 · Tuesday at 2:06 PM

chevyontheriver said:
That was deliberately elusive.

How so ?
That is the name used in the bible, and carried on since then.

chevyontheriver said:
What’s your bishop’s name? What diocese is he bishop of? Are you reticent to name the folks who taught you the doctrine you follow?

Based on your reaction to the doctrine which is according to Godliness, I will not tell you anything else.

Hoping2 · Tuesday at 2:15 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Where was your church during the whole 2000 year history? Then where was it during the islamic invasion? By your own standards, the gates of hell. It did prevail against the church. Because you can't point to a single person who was a christian at that time.Who you would consider a brother and sister in faith.

That is funny...

Ignatius the Kiwi · Tuesday at 2:40 PM

Hoping2 said:
That is funny...

It's not funny though. As evidence of Christ's claim that the gates of hell won't prevail against the Church i would point to the lives of actual Christians who lived in every century as evidence. You have no one you can point to, no one during the Islamic conquest had your faith or was as suicidal as you. They did not want rape and murder to go unpunished, they wanted to defend themselves and their fellow Christians.

Hoping2 · Tuesday at 2:49 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
It's not funny though. As evidence of Christ's claim that the gates of hell won't prevail against the Church i would point to the lives of actual Christians who lived in every century as evidence. You have no one you can point to, no one during the Islamic conquest had your faith or was as suicidal as you. They did not want rape and murder to go unpunished, they wanted to defend themselves and their fellow Christians.

Don't believe everything you read.
The characterizations of folks from the past are not always true.
You yourself have accused them of murderous conduct in the name of country and "stuff".
Those are not my heroes.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Tuesday at 2:51 PM

Hoping2 said:
Don't believe everything you read.
The characterizations of folks from the past are not always true.
You yourself have accused them of murderous conduct in the name of country and "stuff".
Those are not my heroes.

Alright then. If all history is false and there were no Christians, our Lord lied and the gates of hell prevailed against it.

You're digging yourself a hole and your only recourse is a doctrine of restorationism like the Mormons or JWs.

chevyontheriver · Tuesday at 3:24 PM

Hoping2 said:
Based on your reaction to the doctrine which is according to Godliness, I will not tell you anything else.

I figured you wouldn't be able to provide actual names. Your elusiveness is telling.

ralliann · Tuesday at 4:35 PM

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Aside from yourself Hoping can you point to any Christian who you consider a fellow believer during the time of Islamic expansion? I can point out people, St John of Damascus, Maximos the Confessor and plenty of others.

Real people who existed and lived Christian lives. But you couldn't consider these men and women Christians because they worked with the political order of their time which used force to defend fellow believers.

This conversation is unproductive because we are on two radically different poles. You prefer evil to succeed. I don't.

I doubt the faith of some.......I do think they use scripture to poke...

ralliann · Tuesday at 4:41 PM

Hoping2 said:
Jesus did God's will.

He laid down his life to save others. You are not promoting that. You say If god does not save you, you deserved it.

How should have Christians historically addressed Islam?

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