Watch: CNN Cuts Tulsi Gabbard Off as She Lays Out the Inconvenient Facts of the Russia Hoax

PatrickTate said:

I do not believe that Biden beat Trump fairly by campaigning from his basement

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I'm thinking that his public events had more effect. And, of course, he had the benefit of Trump's record as president. A huge assist. But his campaign was rather effective:

PatrickTate said:

(Trump) learned to pray at a whole new level from 2021 to 2024.

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"I haven't asked God for forgiveness."
Donald Trump

probinson said:

I don't think men should play in women's sports.

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It wasn't a discussion about who should play what sport against what opponents. It was about an executive order that Trump made. You said you haven't supported Trump. Your post showed otherwise.

probinson said:

But agreement on a specific policy position does not indicate "support" for that candidate and/or party in general. Surely you must know that.

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It clearly shows that you denied that the specific policy is harmful. People said it was very wrong and you were arguing against them. It was clearly support for the policy. You said that you haven't supported Trump, but you appear to support his policies. Which maybe you think is somehow different.

The Barbarian said:

Except:
Hillary graciously conceded,

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Clinton made a concession speech, but her concession was anything but gracious. People who "graciously concede" don't then run around whining about how the election was STOLEN!!! from them and claiming that their opponent was an "illegitimate President". That's not gracious by ANY definition of the word.

probinson said:

The thing you seem to have a hard time grasping is that I'm not really all that interested in gradation of the denial of the results.

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Gradation? Hahaha - yeah - that's one way of putting it.

But why not? The results are part of how seriously they pushed the stolen narrative! It seems you are cherry picking in the extreme to support your narrative.

probinson said:

What I am referring to is the narrative that the election was STOLEN,

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Yep - she probably said that a few times as a result of the EVIDENCE that Russia had, in fact, hacked and leaked her emails!

So lost the plot? Not so much. Unlike Trump with his NPD - she accepted the outcome and left gracefully.

How many times did she say it? How extreme did media shout the news from the rooftops? How big were her Stop the Steal protests?

IF COURSE you're not interested in "gradation" - otherwise you cannot cherry pick a few words, block your eyes and ears to everything else, and chant "See! The same!"

The Barbarian said:

Hillary Clinton's concession:

Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.

But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together, this vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.

I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.

We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.

Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don’t just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.

Read Hillary Clinton's Concession Speech for the 2016 Election

"This is painful and it will be for a long time."

time.com

I recall Mitt Romney, John McCain, Al Gore, and pretty much all the other losers of presidential elections graciously conceding. The only sore loser in my lifetime that I recall is Donald Trump. Can you think of an exception?

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Hear hear!
Trump's NPD means he is constitutionally unable to acknowledge reality when it does not go his way. It's what makes NPD in a leader like him so dangerous - and why NPD should be on a disqualification list under the mental health provisions of the 25th

Bradskii said:

It wasn't a discussion about who should play what sport against what opponents.

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Um, yes it was.

Bradskii said:

It was about an executive order that Trump made. You said you haven't supported Trump. Your post showed otherwise.

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While I don't think women should play in men's sports (which is the majority position of Americans, even Democrats), I don't believe an EO from the President of the United States is the correct way to address it, and I said as much in the thread..

Bradskii said:

It clearly shows that you denied that the specific policy is harmful. People said it was very wrong and you were arguing against them.

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How dare I have a different take than "people"!

Bradskii said:

It was clearly support for the policy.

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It was not. But even if it was.... (see below)

Bradskii said:

You said that you haven't supported Trump, but you appear to support his policies. Which maybe you think is somehow different.

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It is quite different, and you have to know this.

Just because Trump does something that I agree with does not mean that I support Trump in general. I think Trump is, generally speaking, a horrible President and I've never voted for him in ANY election. But you know what they say about blind squirrels and nuts. It's inevitable that politicians will do things that I support. That doesn't mean I support the politician in general.

eclipsenow said:

But why not? The results are part of how seriously they pushed the stolen narrative! It seems you are cherry picking in the extreme to support your narrative.

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I'm not sure exactly what you think my "narrative" is, so let me spell it out for you plainly: I think that making baseless accusations that an election has been stolen is wrong and detrimental to democracy.

eclipsenow said:

Yep - she probably said that a few times as a result of the EVIDENCE that Russia had, in fact, hacked and leaked her emails!

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Sigh. I'm too lazy to go find all the instances this was stated, so here's an AI summary with links (emphasis mine):

probinson said:

I'm not sure exactly what you think my "narrative" is, so let me spell it out for you plainly: I think that making baseless accusations that an election has been stolen is wrong and detrimental to democracy.

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Then you agree, Donald Trump is detrimental to democracy?

GoldenBoy89 said:

Then you agree, Donald Trump is detrimental to democracy?

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Yes. Both Trump and Clinton's baseless claims of stolen elections are detrimental to democracy. If the American people don't trust that we have fair and honest elections, then we have serious problems.

probinson said:

Clinton made a concession speech, but her concession was anything but gracious. People who "graciously concede" don't then run around whining about how the election was STOLEN!!! from them and claiming that their opponent was an "illegitimate President". That's not gracious by ANY definition of the word.

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Except - there's the evidence that Gabbard cannot overturn.
It happened.
And again - gradation.

You can create all the song and dance you want, but Clinton's exit was vasty more legal - let alone gracious.

'We won this election, and we won it by a landslide'​

'We will stop the steal'​

'We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen'​

'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore'​

'We are going to the Capitol'​

And that's just inciting the Capitol riots in an attempted coup!

Oh - and let's not forget...

“All I want to do is this: I just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. Because we won this state.”​

It's that old routine of "how can you tell Donald Trump is lying? His lips are moving!"

Hillary Clinton did not inspire a 3 part series on Australia's flagship ABC current affairs show.

“Fox and the Big Lie”​

Part One.   23 August 2021​

“What cable news runs on is fear - and what fear leads to is hatred. If we in the United States don’t find a healthier way to run the news business - we’re going to fall apart! This is killing us!”

“Fox and the Big Lie”​

Part Two.   30 Aug 2021​

“The earth is round, 2 + 2 = 4, and Kamala Harris and Tim Walz won the 2020 election. ... The election was not stolen, rigged, or fixed. These are facts. They are demonstrable and irrefutable.”
“When the facts didn’t suit Donald Trump - he simply made up his own.”

Then a few years later...

“Fox and the Big Lie”​

Part Three  24 April 2023​

The Big Lie cost Fox News and Rupert Murdoch $787 million USD.​

probinson said:

Yes. Both Trump and Clinton's baseless

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As they used to say on Sesame Street - "One of these things is not like the other."

Clinton HAD a basis for claiming her election was interfered with.
Trump did not.

GoldenBoy89 said:

Then you agree, Donald Trump is detrimental to democracy?

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I agree that his actions after the 2020 election were idiotic. He should have conceded and made any challenges in court.

The Barbarian said:

"I haven't asked God for forgiveness."
Donald Trump

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Exactly - he hams it up at Christian conventions - and talks about how 'he gets this stuff' - pretends to read a bible - and then his NPD kicks in and he cannot even admit his basic flaws in the context of a discussion about Christianity. But then - I doubt he's read a book in his adult life. He probably does not understand even the most basic claims of a kid's Sunday School version of the gospel. He's not known for his intellect!

I mean - OTHER THAN all of the below - I'm sure he's a genius!

Donald Trump believes in invisible F35's. Says he will not support NATO.
This Incredible Photo Of Trump Surrounded By G7 Leaders Is Like A Renaissance Painting

He addressed thousands of Boy Scouts with a rambling political speech about cocktail parties and rich people having sex on boats. Read a Transcript of Trump's Boy Scout Jamboree Speech

He told scientists that they might kill the coronavirus by finding a way to inject people with light or disinfectants. Trump Suggested Experts Find A Way To Inject Light Or Disinfectants Into Human Bodies To Kill The Coronavirus

Trump served college football players a fast-food feast during a government shutdown.
Must Reads: Why you can’t look away from that Trump fast food photo

He said anti–police brutality protesters were throwing bags of soup.
Donald Trump’s war on soup

He told a hurricane victim whose yard was filled with a wrecked yacht - "At least you got a nice boat out of the deal". https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...trump-tells-nc-man-during-post-florence-tour/

He met with people affected by mass shootings at schools, but needed a note to remind himself to say “I hear you.”
(I mean - his advisers were THAT freaked out about him going improv and off-script they had to remind him to LISTEN to people whose kids had just died!??? Even his advisers knew he lacked basic empathy. )
Trump Wrote A Reminder To Himself To Say "I Hear You" To Speakers On School Gun Violence

He told reporters his coronavirus test came back "positively toward the negative".
(Can the guy speak English?)
Positive News! Trump Says He Tested Positively, Which Means Negative, For The Coronavirus.

He was hospitalized with COVID-19 and released photographs of himself working in which he appeared to be signing blank pieces of paper with a marker!
Trump in Walter Reed Photo-Op Appears to Show He's 'Relentless'

There are so many other instances, like when he briefly left the hospital to hold a COVID parade and greet supporters, when he hugged and kissed the flag, when he congratulated Russian President Vladimir Putin on his reelection despite being advised in a State Department memo, "DO NOT CONGRATULATE", when he tweeted the word "covfefe" in the middle of the night, when he said he met with the "Prince of Whales", when he walked in front of the Queen and she made this face, when he pronounced the national park "Yosemite" as "Yo-Semite", when he drew on a hurricane map with a Sharpie, when he said they should nuke hurricanes, when he said a hurricane was "one of the wettest we've ever seen, from the standpoint of water", when he feuded with the musical Hamilton, when he feuded with Meryl Streep, when he feuded with Robert De Niro, when he saluted a North Korean general, when he bragged about his cognitive abilities by repeating the phrase "person, woman, man, camera, TV", when he complained for years about the water pressure in toilets, when he complained for years about windmills (falsely) killing birds, knocking out TV reception, and causing cancer, when he met with Kanye West, when he met with Kanye West another time, when he released a photo of himself pretending to write his inauguration speech, when he lied to the CIA about the number of people at his inauguration, when he apparently didn't get the memo about not smiling in this picture with the pope, when he talked about how he had bombed Syria while eating "the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen", when he didn't seem to like a French military band's cover of Daft Punk, when he talked about "local milk people", and on and on it goes.

eclipsenow said:

As they used to say on Sesame Street - "One of these things is not like the other."

Clinton HAD a basis for claiming her election was interfered with.

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If you say so.

eclipsenow said:

Trump did not.

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Neither did Clinton. There was no evidence AT ANY POINT that anyone STOLE the election from her.

eclipsenow said:

Hillary Clinton did not inspire a 3 part series on Australia's flagship ABC current affairs show.

“Fox and the Big Lie”​

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You mean the series that the ACMA called "materially misleading"?

probinson said:

You mean the series that the ACMA called "materially misleading"?

​

The Australian broadcast regulator has come down hard on the ABC and its star reporter Sarah Ferguson over multiple breaches of the public broadcaster’s code in its Four Corners report “Fox and the Big Lie”.​

​

The 12-month investigation by the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) into the two-part series and Ferguson, who has taken over hosting duties on the ABC’s flagship 7:30 program, concluded the report was “materially misleading”.​

​

In a scathing rebuke of the public broadcaster’s so-called investigation, ACMA found the program breached multiple standards of the ABC’s 2019 Code of Practice​

​

ACMA even ruled the ABC came close to reaching the high bar set for breaking the code’s impartiality standards.​

​

The Four Corners investigation, which attempted to draw links between Fox News and the January 6 Capitol Riots, was found to have misled viewers by deliberately omitting relevant information.​

​

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www.skynews.com.au

​

​

​

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Thank you for that. I'll need to include references to these material facts as disclaimers. When one actually studies these SERIOUS breaches in ACMA rules, you will see how actually TRIVIAL they are compared to the horrendous Agitation Propaganda that Fox carries out on a daily basis! Compared to Fox - these are small, inconsequential dislaimers.

NOTHING they stated about Donald Trump came into question! But nevertheless - these SERIOUS breaches of ACMA should be shouted from the rooftops! What did Four Corners do?

1. There was some footage of some Fox News reporters at a Trump rally that they did not explain well.
2. They did not emphasise ENOUGH the role of Social Media as an accelerant to Jan 06 - but instead let their primary story about how the Ex-President was inciting the riots! Given the seriousness of the role of Social Media - as documented by "The Social Dilemma" documentary I always quote - that was a serious omission.

Nevertheless - as Australia prides itself on the objectivity of our ABC - we fund "Media Watch" where the ABC journalist will even attack the ABC's inaccuracies - and we fund ACMA to ensure accurate broadcasting.

But other than footage of 2 Fox News reporters at a Trump rally, and other than omitting Social Media as another cause - everything they reported in those specials was CHILLINGLY ACCURATE and I have verified it from multiple other sources over the years.

Trump did the things they reported!

So what's your point?

eclipsenow said:

Thank you for that. I'll need to include references to these material facts as disclaimers. When one actually studies these SERIOUS breaches in ACMA rules, you will see how actually TRIVIAL they are compared to the horrendous Agitation Propaganda that Fox carries out on a daily basis! Compared to Fox - these are small, inconsequential dislaimers.

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Hmm. When something is classified as "materially misleading", I have to believe that's more than just a "small, inconsequential disclaimer".

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I am continually amazed at how easily people can spot propaganda that they disagree with while simultaneously swallowing propaganda that they agree with.

eclipsenow said:

Exactly - he hams it up at Christian conventions - and talks about how 'he gets this stuff' - pretends to read a bible - and then his NPD kicks in and he cannot even admit his basic flaws in the context of a discussion about Christianity. But then - I doubt he's read a book in his adult life. He probably does not understand even the most basic claims of a kid's Sunday School version of the gospel. He's not known for his intellect!

I mean - OTHER THAN all of the below - I'm sure he's a genius!

Donald Trump believes in invisible F35's. Says he will not support NATO.
This Incredible Photo Of Trump Surrounded By G7 Leaders Is Like A Renaissance Painting

He addressed thousands of Boy Scouts with a rambling political speech about cocktail parties and rich people having sex on boats. Read a Transcript of Trump's Boy Scout Jamboree Speech

He told scientists that they might kill the coronavirus by finding a way to inject people with light or disinfectants. Trump Suggested Experts Find A Way To Inject Light Or Disinfectants Into Human Bodies To Kill The Coronavirus

Trump served college football players a fast-food feast during a government shutdown.
Must Reads: Why you can’t look away from that Trump fast food photo

He said anti–police brutality protesters were throwing bags of soup.
Donald Trump’s war on soup

He told a hurricane victim whose yard was filled with a wrecked yacht - "At least you got a nice boat out of the deal". https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...trump-tells-nc-man-during-post-florence-tour/

He met with people affected by mass shootings at schools, but needed a note to remind himself to say “I hear you.”
(I mean - his advisers were THAT freaked out about him going improv and off-script they had to remind him to LISTEN to people whose kids had just died!??? Even his advisers knew he lacked basic empathy. )
Trump Wrote A Reminder To Himself To Say "I Hear You" To Speakers On School Gun Violence

He told reporters his coronavirus test came back "positively toward the negative".
(Can the guy speak English?)
Positive News! Trump Says He Tested Positively, Which Means Negative, For The Coronavirus.

He was hospitalized with COVID-19 and released photographs of himself working in which he appeared to be signing blank pieces of paper with a marker!
Trump in Walter Reed Photo-Op Appears to Show He's 'Relentless'

There are so many other instances, like when he briefly left the hospital to hold a COVID parade and greet supporters, when he hugged and kissed the flag, when he congratulated Russian President Vladimir Putin on his reelection despite being advised in a State Department memo, "DO NOT CONGRATULATE", when he tweeted the word "covfefe" in the middle of the night, when he said he met with the "Prince of Whales", when he walked in front of the Queen and she made this face, when he pronounced the national park "Yosemite" as "Yo-Semite", when he drew on a hurricane map with a Sharpie, when he said they should nuke hurricanes, when he said a hurricane was "one of the wettest we've ever seen, from the standpoint of water", when he feuded with the musical Hamilton, when he feuded with Meryl Streep, when he feuded with Robert De Niro, when he saluted a North Korean general, when he bragged about his cognitive abilities by repeating the phrase "person, woman, man, camera, TV", when he complained for years about the water pressure in toilets, when he complained for years about windmills (falsely) killing birds, knocking out TV reception, and causing cancer, when he met with Kanye West, when he met with Kanye West another time, when he released a photo of himself pretending to write his inauguration speech, when he lied to the CIA about the number of people at his inauguration, when he apparently didn't get the memo about not smiling in this picture with the pope, when he talked about how he had bombed Syria while eating "the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen", when he didn't seem to like a French military band's cover of Daft Punk, when he talked about "local milk people", and on and on it goes.

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You missed the speech wherein he claimed that you couldn't buy groceries without an ID.

eclipsenow said:

Trump did the things they reported!

So what's your point?

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You're resorting to facts again. Typical liberal.