Watch: CNN Cuts Tulsi Gabbard Off as She Lays Out the Inconvenient Facts of the Russia Hoax

[probinson]

I don't disagree with that.
I think it should be concerning how willing the Trump campaign was to meet with Russians in light of Russia soliciting help.
I know Trump has said outright he should hear them out as if it was his duty.

I don't disagree with that either. There's no doubt Trump has made concerning comments regarding Russia. But with regards to what Democrats and the media did in 2016, it was mostly just baseless rhetoric in an attempt to delegitimize Trump's election.

 

[The Barbarian]

Learn to accept the reality. Can you show even one city that burned in 2016?

That's good advice.

So let's see how you do with it....

During the riot, glass bottles and trash cans were thrown at police. Rioters used rocks and baseball bats to cause much of the damage. A dumpster was also lit on fire.[9]Members of the protest who opposed the violence intervened when a man tried to destroy a piece of electrical equipment with a bat. Another altercation began when a woman began throwing laundry detergent at people in the crowd.[10]...A reporter for local television station KOIN was assaulted.[4] In reaction to the ongoing disturbances, police closed Pioneer Courthouse Square and a two-block perimeter around the park, and warned that anyone who remained would face arrest.[4] Two other people were also assaulted, and a total of 62 people have been arrested as a result of the rioting and other disturbances.[5] On November 13, police updated the figure of total arrests to 113, with 71 arrested on November 12 alone.[6] Protesters reportedly threw lit road flares at police officers.[13]

So no cities burned after all? That's the reality?

" Members of the protest who opposed the violence intervened when a man tried to destroy a piece of electrical equipment with a bat. "

Do you have any examples of the MAGA people during the attack on the Capitol, urging the insurgents to stop their attack on police? No? That's another important difference, quite aside from the fact that Clinton told her followers to give Trump a chance, and Trump sent a mob to attack the Capitol.

The point remains.
Hillary Clinton conceded the day after the election, and told her followers to give Trump a chance.


Trump refused to accept his loss to Biden, launched dozens of failed lawsuits, and sent his followers to the Capitol to stop the certification, telling them to "fight like hell." Which many of them did, attacking police, looting congressional offices, and seeing to hang the VP. Eventually troops had to be called to stop the insurrection.


Nothing more clearly shows the difference.

 

[probinson]

So no cities burned after all? That's the reality?

I noticed how you selectively ignored all of the things in the description of that protest that pertained to fire. Nicely done!

Burning dumpsters, lit road flares... both of these things cause fires. The videos I posted showed those fires burning. Hence, "burning city".

Hyperbolic? Of course! But no moreso than Clinton and the Democrats whining baselessly that the 2016 election had been stolen from them.

 

[Say it aint so]

I don't disagree with that either. There's no doubt Trump has made concerning comments regarding Russia. But with regards to what Democrats and the media did in 2016, it was mostly just baseless rhetoric in an attempt to delegitimize Trump's election.

No it wasn't baseless rhetoric. Russia was trying to help Trump. That's not baseless. Trump et al were willing to hear them out. Trump's campaign manager was working with Russians. Trump official George Papadopulous was soliciting his connection with Russians. Roger Stone was working with a Russian intermediary. The Russian Oligarch who ran Russia's operations admitted to interference. You may not like the unsupported conclusion that voters thought the election stolen, but those media outlets who do investigative journalism (yes I know that is dying) were laying out those realities and not out and out claiming the election stolen. Now, there are some MSM outlets who were making that claim, and we already went over exactly who that was. If you have heartburn that people wrongly concluded the 2016 election as stolen, then the 2020 stolen election claims must be driving you up a wall. How many have been sued and how many lawyers disbarred making those false claims?

The really sad thing is half of those making those false 2020 stolen election claims are now running the Justice Department.

 

[probinson]

No it wasn't baseless rhetoric. Russia was trying to help Trump. That's not baseless.

Yes, it mostly was. From the article I posted yesterday:

The January 6, 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment concluding that Russian President Vladimir Putin “developed a clear preference” for Donald Trump and “aspired to help his chances of victory” is revealed in a report released this morning by Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard to have been based on four pieces of evidence. One was the Steele Dossier. The surprise is that the other three were even less credible, each included over objections of the report’s CIA authors.​

​

In Brutal Document Release, the Russia Hoax is Finally Exposed

Official claim that Putin "aspired" to help Trump was based on four pieces of evidence, all bogus, even "ridiculous," according to long-suppressed report just released by DNI Tulsi Gabbard

substack.com

​

If you have heartburn that people wrongly concluded the 2016 election as stolen, then the 2020 stolen election claims must be driving you up a wall. How have been sued and how many lawyer disbarred making those false claims?

I find what happened in the 2016 and 2020 elections incredibly discouraging.

 

[Say it aint so]

Yes, it mostly was. From the article I posted yesterday:

The January 6, 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment concluding that Russian President Vladimir Putin “developed a clear preference” for Donald Trump and “aspired to help his chances of victory” is revealed in a report released this morning by Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard to have been based on four pieces of evidence. One was the Steele Dossier. The surprise is that the other three were even less credible, each included over objections of the report’s CIA authors.​

​

In Brutal Document Release, the Russia Hoax is Finally Exposed

Official claim that Putin "aspired" to help Trump was based on four pieces of evidence, all bogus, even "ridiculous," according to long-suppressed report just released by DNI Tulsi Gabbard

substack.com

​

I find what happened in the 2016 and 2020 elections incredibly discouraging.

Matt Taibbi? Really?

The released report was from the GOP House investigation with Trump in office. One can just predict how that was going to unfold.

Let's say for arguments sake the premise to start the investigation was "less credible". If looking into that question, and upon investigation in conclusion that "less credible" evidence in the end was in fact correct. Then what are we talking about here?

Basically the argument, and frankly John Durham already looked at the genesis of the Trump/Russia investigation, and thought the initial evidence should have been scrutinized more before launching the investigation.

But to me it's like Durham arguing the Green River Killer's law enforcement didn't have enough of a solid premise to launch the investigation, even though in the end he was indeed the killer. What are we doing here?

 

[The Barbarian]

So no cities burned after all? That's the reality?

Hyperbolic? Of course!

Trump called lies "truthful hyperbole." But your honesty is appreciated. No cities were burning. Were there even any buildings burned?

The key here, is that Clinton accepted Trump's win in 2016, and told her followers to give Trump a chance, while Trump desperately tried to illegally overturn his 2020 loss to Joe Biden, even sending his followers to the Capitol to "fight like hell" in an insurrection to overturn the certification of Biden as president. It's why he was impeached for that crime.

And that's the real difference.

 

[BPPLEE]

Learn to accept the reality. Can you show even one city that burned in 2016?


So let's see how you do with it....


So no cities burned after all? That's the reality?

" Members of the protest who opposed the violence intervened when a man tried to destroy a piece of electrical equipment with a bat. "

Do you have any examples of the MAGA people during the attack on the Capitol, urging the insurgents to stop their attack on police? No? That's another important difference, quite aside from the fact that Clinton told her followers to give Trump a chance, and Trump sent a mob to attack the Capitol.

The point remains.
Hillary Clinton conceded the day after the election, and told her followers to give Trump a chance.


Trump refused to accept his loss to Biden, launched dozens of failed lawsuits, and sent his followers to the Capitol to stop the certification, telling them to "fight like hell." Which many of them did, attacking police, looting congressional offices, and seeing to hang the VP. Eventually troops had to be called to stop the insurrection.


Nothing more clearly shows the difference.

• On January 6th: Jones participated in the march from the Ellipse to the Capitol and was on restricted Capitol grounds. While there, he used a bullhorn and chanted slogans like "Stop the Steal!". However, he was also reportedly seen and heard discouraging violence and encouraging people to march to another side of the Capitol building where a permitted event was scheduled.
• After January 6th: Jones later claimed he tried to prevent people from breaking the law and that the violence was "stupid and dumb". He also suggested that containing the crowd was "mission impossible" and that he got out of there once he couldn't stop it.

In essence, while Jones actively encouraged and facilitated the gathering of protestors on January 6th with heated rhetoric, once at the Capitol he also made statements urging them to be peaceful and avoid confrontation with the police. This has been a key point of discussion surrounding his role in the events of that day.
Source: Google

 

[eclipsenow]

Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article.

It's saying that the pieces of "evidence" they had that Putin preferred Trump were dubious at best,

What evidence specifically? It's so easy to recycle serious sounding accusations - but only later under examination and a little thought realising how vague and fluffy the accusations were.
Who made this accusation about what EXACTLY and what credibility do they have over the growing number of CIA specialists we see lawyering up while making public declarations!

This is a witch hunt to satisfy Trump's NPD. It's an attack on hard working agents. This has all been investigated so thoroughly that - in a large bureaucracy - they found a few examples of bad practice. But thar agent has already been disciplined.

The vast majority were already vindicated by a number of investigations.

This is all a distraction from Epstein - and all because Trump's vanity cannot handle any implied attacks on how he got where he is.

 

[eclipsenow]

So no cities burned after all? That's the reality?


Trump called lies "truthful hyperbole." But your honesty is appreciated. No cities were burning. Were there even any buildings burned?

The key here, is that Clinton accepted Trump's win in 2016, and told her followers to give Trump a chance, while Trump desperately tried to illegally overturn his 2020 loss to Joe Biden, even sending his followers to the Capitol to "fight like hell" in an insurrection to overturn the certification of Biden as president. It's why he was impeached for that crime.

And that's the real difference.

Word!

I can't believe how MAGA are comparing Hillary's statements about Russian influence to Trump. She had a basis in fact and yet respected the Democratic process.

Trump on the other hand DESPERATELY and REPEATEDLY whipped up Fox News and the MAGA base into a frenzied whirlwind of Big Lie Believers who chanted Stop The Steal as they marched on the Capitol.

The world looked on in horror as the supposed leader of the "free world" lied and sulked and pressured Georgia to just go and find more votes etc

He slandered ballot counting machine companies (which cost Fox $787 million in damages in court).

We watched him incite that foaming at the mouth mob that attacked the American capitol like it was some backwater developing nation melting down - like a tinpot dictator sulking at losing.

5 people died! Police officers were assaulted. Then Trump delighted in calling them all heroes for years, kept repeating the Big Lie for 4 years, and when he got back in pardoned 1600 criminals!

Yeah - Hillary was JUST LIKE THAT! (Amazing how revisionist Republicans are becoming.)

 

[probinson]

What evidence specifically?

It's in the article. If you cared, you'd read it.

 

[probinson]

Matt Taibbi? Really?

Yeah. Really. Do you have any comment on the corroborated content of the article?

 

[Say it aint so]

It's in the article. If you cared, you'd read it.

He's making the same, Ted Bundy was placed on observation by "flimsy evidence" regarding a person killing young girls, but in the end that "flimsy evidence" upon investigation proved he was indeed the guy killing young girls argument.

 

[probinson]

Yeah - Hillary was JUST LIKE THAT!

The thing you seem to have a hard time grasping is that I'm not really all that interested in gradation of the denial of the results. What I am referring to is the narrative that the election was STOLEN, which was indeed the same in 2016 as it was in 2020. Once politicians start making accusations of STOLEN elections and "illegitimate Presidents" without evidence, we've already lost the plot.

Was 2020 far worse than 2016? Absolutely. But the sentiment was the same, and that is what I have been referring to. It wasn't until Harris lost this past election that we saw a gracious concession. Hopefully that becomes the norm once again, and not a concession speech followed by months and years of incessant whining about how the election was STOLEN from someone.

 

[The Barbarian]

Hopefully that becomes the norm once again, and not a concession speech followed by months and years of incessant whining about how the election was STOLEN from someone.

Trump actually never conceded. As it became clear that he would lose, he began to try to undermine the election.

 

[The Barbarian]

It wasn't until Harris lost this past election that we saw a gracious concession.

Hillary Clinton's concession:

Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.

But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together, this vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.

I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.

We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.

Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don’t just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.

Read Hillary Clinton's Concession Speech for the 2016 Election

"This is painful and it will be for a long time."

time.com

I recall Mitt Romney, John McCain, Al Gore, and pretty much all the other losers of presidential elections graciously conceding. The only sore loser in my lifetime that I recall is Donald Trump. Can you think of an exception?

 

[PatrickTate]

Hillary Clinton's concession:

Last night, I congratulated Donald Trump and offered to work with him on behalf of our country. I hope that he will be a successful president for all Americans. This is not the outcome we wanted or we worked so hard for and I’m sorry that we did not win this election for the values we share and the vision we hold for our country.

But I feel pride and gratitude for this wonderful campaign that we built together, this vast, diverse, creative, unruly, energized campaign. You represent the best of America and being your candidate has been one of the greatest honors of my life.

I know how disappointed you feel because I feel it too, and so do tens of millions of Americans who invested their hopes and dreams in this effort. This is painful and it will be for a long time, but I want you to remember this. Our campaign was never about one person or even one election, it was about the country we love and about building an America that’s hopeful, inclusive and big-hearted.

We have seen that our nation is more deeply divided than we thought. But I still believe in America and I always will. And if you do, then we must accept this result and then look to the future. Donald Trump is going to be our president. We owe him an open mind and the chance to lead.

Our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power and we don’t just respect that, we cherish it. It also enshrines other things; the rule of law, the principle that we are all equal in rights and dignity, freedom of worship and expression. We respect and cherish these values too and we must defend them.

Read Hillary Clinton's Concession Speech for the 2016 Election

"This is painful and it will be for a long time."

time.com

I recall Mitt Romney, John McCain, Al Gore, and pretty much all the other losers of presidential elections graciously conceding. The only sore loser in my lifetime that I recall is Donald Trump. Can you think of an exception?

But after this public "concession" did she come up with a way to cripple President Trump during his first term?

 

[The Barbarian]

The thing you seem to have a hard time grasping is that I'm not really all that interested in gradation of the denial of the results. What I am referring to is the narrative that the election was STOLEN, which was indeed the same in 2016 as it was in 2020.

Except:
Hillary graciously conceded, while Trump threw a tantrum and screamed that was cheated.
Hillary went home and let it be, while Trump tossed in dozens of lawsuits that were quickly tossed out for lack of substance.
Hillary let it be, while Trump called public officials, trying to push them into "finding" more votes for him.
Hillary told her followers to give Trump a chance, while Trump sent a mob to the Capitol in an attempt to prevent certification of the results.
Hillary let it be, while Trump tried to get "alternative electors" to replace the lawful ones.

That's a difference in kind, not in degree.

 

[The Barbarian]

But after this public "concession" did she come up with a way to cripple President Trump during his first term?

He pretty much did that to himself. It's why he lost to Biden.

What do you think Hillary did to "cripple" Trump? And what's your evidence?

 

[PatrickTate]

He pretty much did that to himself. It's why he lost to Biden.

What do you think Hillary did to "cripple" Trump? And what's your evidence?

I do not believe that Biden beat Trump fairly by campaigning from his basement but if you want to believe that, that is entirely your choice.

In a way it was a good thing for America and for President Trump that he was delayed by four years from being in the office of POTUS again. He learned to pray at a whole new level from 2021 to 2024.