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Christian group blasts Church in Wales’ defiance of biblical doctrine with lesbian archbishop

PloverWing

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So your church is on board with what this church in Wales is doing pertaining to the appointment of Elizabeth Vann.​

Neither gender nor sexual orientation are barriers to ordination in the Episcopal Church in the US. I have no objections to Bishop Vann serving as the Archbishop of Wales.

Following CF's rules, I will not describe here the reasoning behind the decisions of the Episcopal Church and the Church in Wales. Google will turn up some of the relevant theological arguments and ecclesiastical statements, if you're interested.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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Neither gender nor sexual orientation are barriers to ordination in the Episcopal Church in the US. I have no objections to Bishop Vann serving as the Archbishop of Wales.

Following CF's rules, I will not describe here the reasoning behind the decisions of the Episcopal Church and the Church in Wales. Google will turn up some of the relevant theological arguments and ecclesiastical statements, if you're interested.
The relevant theological arguments being rooted more in conforming Christianity to modernity than upholding the faith delivered the Saints. Let's be honest. It's not like there's any kind of commitment to Christianity to be an Episcopalian or Anglican Bishop.
 
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PloverWing

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It's not like there's any kind of commitment to Christianity to be an Episcopalian or Anglican Bishop.

It's so nice that you are always thinking about us, Ignatius. We must have a special place in your heart.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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It's so nice that you are always thinking about us, Ignatius. We must have a special place in your heart.
I am oddly fascinated by the Anglicans. I can admit that. Though what I said was true. You don't really have to be a Christian to be a Bishop in your Church.
 
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FireDragon76

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The relevant theological arguments being rooted more in conforming Christianity to modernity than upholding the faith delivered the Saints. Let's be honest. It's not like there's any kind of commitment to Christianity to be an Episcopalian or Anglican Bishop.

That's a common polemic but this perspective isn't as intellectually respectable as you assume: every form of Christianity has engaged with the predominant culture it inhabits.
 
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NBB

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Imagine a church, where they preach, that adultery, thievery and fornication is alright and to be encouraged.
Well here they are not only preaching sin, they are worse LIVING it. Thats no church at all do not be deceived.
 
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d taylor

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Neither gender nor sexual orientation are barriers to ordination in the Episcopal Church in the US. I have no objections to Bishop Vann serving as the Archbishop of Wales.

Following CF's rules, I will not describe here the reasoning behind the decisions of the Episcopal Church and the Church in Wales. Google will turn up some of the relevant theological arguments and ecclesiastical statements, if you're interested.
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Sadly though this lady who is the leader of this church regardless of her sexual identity . Would not be able to tell a person who ask her, how to have eternal life.

And what is even sadder is being able to tell a person how to receive eternal life. Is not complicated by being gay, but is only complicated by that person themselves not knowing how to receive eternal life.

So churches should not focus on sexual freedom or acceptance. But being able to understand, believe and teach how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, only by belief in Jesus.
 
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PloverWing

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Sadly though this lady who is the leader of this church regardless of her sexual identity . Would not be able to tell a person who ask her, how to have eternal life.

Do you know this to be true? I haven't heard any of her sermons or speeches, and I haven't heard what answer she would give to this question if it were put to her in these words, so I can't evaluate her (hypothetical) answer. Have you heard her speak?
 
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d taylor

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Do you know this to be true? I haven't heard any of her sermons or speeches, and I haven't heard what answer she would give to this question if it were put to her in these words, so I can't evaluate her (hypothetical) answer. Have you heard her speak?
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I believe, she believes what the church believes, she is over.
 
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PloverWing

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I believe, she believes what the church believes, she is over.​

Believing what the church believes is generally a prerequisite to being chosen as a bishop. Is there any Anglican that you would accept for the position of Archbishop of Wales?
 
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d taylor

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Believing what the church believes is generally a prerequisite to being chosen as a bishop. Is there any Anglican that you would accept for the position of Archbishop of Wales?
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Well this looks more to be a social position, instead of a position to guide a church into accurate Biblical teaching.
 
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A New Dawn

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Well, yes (replying to post #9, which the system won't let me quote). It mentions accessing the Lord by faith in Christ, but isn't very specific about sin, repentance and forgiveness.
Heaven forbid we tell people to put away their sins and repent before a just God. That would be too condemning. Just get them the book “I’m OK/You’re OK” and that will be all they need.
 
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PloverWing

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Well this looks more to be a social position, instead of a position to guide a church into accurate Biblical teaching.

The office of bishop is a combination of an administrative position and a pastoral position. It's different from, say, the work of a theology professor at a university, if that's what you mean. It's also different from the more intimate pastoral work of a parish priest.

(Some theological scholars are also bishops, of course. How they administer a diocese and also find the time to write books, when there are only 24 hours in a day, I can't say.)
 
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BPPLEE

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Do you know this to be true? I haven't heard any of her sermons or speeches, and I haven't heard what answer she would give to this question if it were put to her in these words, so I can't evaluate her (hypothetical) answer. Have you heard her speak?
Well she's not married so she is living in sin, but with another woman which is also sinful according to the Bible so I wouldn't trust her to tell me how to be saved.
 
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d taylor

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From this appointment, i would also make a guess that this church may lean toward a universalism type of belief. The reason being that the appointment of this lady who is gay is in a sense a very liberal position. As i believe universalism to also be a very liberal position concerning Biblical matters.
 
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d taylor

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The office of bishop is a combination of an administrative position and a pastoral position. It's different from, say, the work of a theology professor at a university, if that's what you mean. It's also different from the more intimate pastoral work of a parish priest.

(Some theological scholars are also bishops, of course. How they administer a diocese and also find the time to write books, when there are only 24 hours in a day, I can't say.)
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So is this like appointing a pope.
 
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PloverWing

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So is this like appointing a pope.

It's similar, yes. Anglican churches, like the Catholic church, are organized into dioceses, with a bishop in charge of each diocese. In the US, there are about 2-3 dioceses per state. Wales has 6 dioceses. Anglican churches in other countries are similarly organized regionally.

In many countries there are larger regions that contain multiple dioceses. The person in charge of these larger regions is usually called an archbishop. In the case being discussed in the OP, Wales has an archbishop who is the chief pastor overseeing the entirety of the (Anglican) Church in Wales, and that's the office we're discussing.

"In charge of", here, is a combination of administration and pastoring, as I mentioned earlier. We've come a long way from feudal Europe, so bishops and archbishops aren't like kings. But someone has to set policy and to make sure rules are generally followed and to resolve disputes and to make sure the diocesan budget is in order, and so forth, and that's part of the job of the bishops and their staff. There's also a pastoral role, giving spiritual guidance to the diocese and celebrating sacraments like Confirmation and Ordination.

There are two large differences between the Anglican Archbishop of Wales and the Pope: 1) The Pope is the chief bishop of the entire Catholic Church, whereas the Archbishop of Wales oversees a much smaller region. 2) Anglicans don't have any sense of infallibility of their bishops and archbishops. Bishops do their best to teach and minister faithfully, but we understand that they are flawed human beings like everybody else.
 
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