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No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Spiritual Jew

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Acts 17:30 is to all the elect everywhere. God doesnt command the vessels of wrath whom He fits for destruction to repent, He wants them to continue in sin and add to their final wrath.
Paul gave Pharaoh as an example of a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction. Pharaoh's heart was already hardened before God decided to harden it for His purposes. Do you think God didn't want Pharaoh to repent at any point in his life before that? There's no basis for thinking so. Yes, God can use someone like that for His purposes if He wants to, but that doesn't mean He never gave that person a chance to repent.
 
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Brightfame52

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Your responses keep getting weaker and weaker. You need to give up your false doctrine already and accept the truth. The natural man is referenced in 1 Corinthians 2:14 and the context there is that the natural man can't understand the deeper things of God. The meat or solid food of His word. That does not include the gospel, which is a very simple and straightforward message. Even the carnal Christians that Paul rebuked in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3 believed the gospel, so your understanding of what someone is capable of doing with their natural mind is flawed. If they hear the truth and their lost state is revealed to them, then they must decide whether to repent and believe or not and nowhere does it say that anyone is not able to do that.

Tell me how it can be that unregenerate men are said to have no excuse for suppressing the truth in unrighteousness while not glorifying God and being thankful to Him, but somehow have an excuse for not repenting and believing, according to your doctrine. That excuse is that they are simply unable to do so.

Why does God condemn people for rejecting Christ (John 3:18) if, as you believe, they were unable to do so? In your view God gets angry with people and condemns them for no reason.
You cannot believe the Truth. Resisting Spiritual things is natural and normal for the natural man, for his heart is at enmity against God
 
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Brightfame52

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LOL. You have no conscience about twisting scripture to make it say what you want it to say. All people everywhere does not equate to "all the elect everywhere". You should be ashamed of how you butcher scripture.
Well duh, Gods elect are everywhere, not just in the nation of israel, and so everywhere they are God is commanding them to repent
 
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Brightfame52

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Paul gave Pharaoh as an example of a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction. Pharaoh's heart was already hardened before God decided to harden it for His purposes. Do you think God didn't want Pharaoh to repent at any point in his life before that? There's no basis for thinking so. Yes, God can use someone like that for His purposes if He wants to, but that doesn't mean He never gave that person a chance to repent.
The vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, God made them for that purpose, to dam them for their sins
 
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Spiritual Jew

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You cannot believe the Truth. Resisting Spiritual things is natural and normal for the natural man, for his heart is at enmity against God
The natural man is not saved. So, you're saying you think I'm not saved then? You keep digging your hole deeper and deeper for yourself. Judge not or you will be judged with the measure you are judging me (Matthew 7:1-2).
 
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Spiritual Jew

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The vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, God made them for that purpose, to dam them for their sins
Wrong. Nowhere does it say anyone is born to be fitted for destruction. God will use people at His discretion, like Pharaoh, for His purposes, but the idea that man is born totally depraved, as Calvinists like you falsely believe, contradicts scripture. Romans 1:18-32 shows that people BECOME depraved by foolishly suppressing the truth and are not made/born that way.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Well duh,
Looks like I'm dealing with an immature child here, as I suspected.

Gods elect are everywhere, not just in the nation of israel, and so everywhere they are God is commanding them to repent
LOL. You twist scripture to make it say what you want it to say. It does not say "all God's elect everywhere", it says "all people everywhere". You have no shame in changing God's word to fit your doctrine. Sad.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Yep the elect ! Them only are commanded by God to repent, and caused to repent.
Wrong. Jesus came to call sinners to repentance and that included all the sinners He was spending time with that the scribes and Pharisees questioned Him about.

Mark 2:14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The context in this passage is in relation to Jesus calling sinners like those Jesus spent time with at Levi's house to repentance. In your false doctrine, Jesus was not actually calling them all to repentance, but He was. He called sinners to repentance and all people are sinners (Romans 3:23). So, your claim that only the elect are commanded by God to repent is false. All people everywhere are commanded by God to repent (Acts 17:30) and all people everywhere are expected to use their God given free will to choose to repent or not.

Also, Jesus said that sinners are sick and in need of the physician and He said He did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. You say God only commands the elect to repentance, but Jesus said He did not come to call those who are already saved (the righteous) to repentance, but those who are lost sinners and are spiritually sick.
 
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A New Dawn

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Did I say that salvation doesn't belong to God? No, I did not.

I'm asking you to assume something for the sake or argument because I'm trying to get you to look at it from my perspective and consider it from my perspective instead of only looking at things from one perspective. Are you afraid to consider any other thing than you've been taught? You come across as brainwashed if you're not even willing to consider any other view than what you have been taught.

You think if all people have free will and salvation is partly dependent on man's choice then, somehow, salvation doesn't belong to God. But, if God determined that He wanted to give all people free will and that He requires all people to choose to repent and to acknowledge that they can't save themselves and atone for their own sins, then would that mean salvation doesn't belong to God alone? No. How could salvation belong to man in that case after man has just admitted that he can't save himself, but that only God can save him?

If you were drowning in the ocean and someone threw out a life preserver to you and you grabbed on to it to keep from drowning, did you save yourself or did the person who threw you the life preserver save you? Would the salvation of your physical life belong to you or the one who gave you a way to be saved from drowning?
I used to be one of those free agency believers, I don’t have to imagine for the sake of argument. I spent my days in despair because, while I had had a salvation experience, it was not something my church taught so I couldn’t admit it or claim it, and I was in so much fear that I could lose my salvation on a daily basis because I could never do enough to stay saved.

The person who finally threw me a life preserver introduced me to the proper way to read the scriptures to know that salvation was God’s to give and nobodies to take away from me because He keeps me safe. So, I still say NO! Free will is a work of Satan, and only makes you live in fear. When I finally broke free from that cursed theology, I finally felt free and was free.
 
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zoidar

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I used to be one of those free agency believers, I don’t have to imagine for the sake of argument. I spent my days in despair because, while I had had a salvation experience, it was not something my church taught so I couldn’t admit it or claim it, and I was in so much fear that I could lose my salvation on a daily basis because I could never do enough to stay saved.

The person who finally threw me a life preserver introduced me to the proper way to read the scriptures to know that salvation was God’s to give and nobodies to take away from me because He keeps me safe. So, I still say NO! Free will is a work of Satan, and only makes you live in fear. When I finally broke free from that cursed theology, I finally felt free and was free.
You can hold to free will and still believe you can't lose salvation. Many have this view.
 
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Brightfame52

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Wrong. Nowhere does it say anyone is born to be fitted for destruction. God will use people at His discretion, like Pharaoh, for His purposes, but the idea that man is born totally depraved, as Calvinists like you falsely believe, contradicts scripture. Romans 1:18-32 shows that people BECOME depraved by foolishly suppressing the truth and are not made/born that way.
No its not wrong, He created the vessels of wrath to fit them for destruction Rom 9
 
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Brightfame52

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Looks like I'm dealing with an immature child here, as I suspected.


LOL. You twist scripture to make it say what you want it to say. It does not say "all God's elect everywhere", it says "all people everywhere". You have no shame in changing God's word to fit your doctrine. Sad.
Again duh, Gods elect are everywhere, all over the globe, and its to them He is commanding and causing to repent
 
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Brightfame52

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Wrong. Jesus came to call sinners to repentance and that included all the sinners He was spending time with that the scribes and Pharisees questioned Him about.

Mark 2:14 And as he passed by, he saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting at the receipt of custom, and said unto him, Follow me. And he arose and followed him.15 And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. 16 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? 17 When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

The context in this passage is in relation to Jesus calling sinners like those Jesus spent time with at Levi's house to repentance. In your false doctrine, Jesus was not actually calling them all to repentance, but He was. He called sinners to repentance and all people are sinners (Romans 3:23). So, your claim that only the elect are commanded by God to repent is false. All people everywhere are commanded by God to repent (Acts 17:30) and all people everywhere are expected to use their God given free will to choose to repent or not.

Also, Jesus said that sinners are sick and in need of the physician and He said He did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. You say God only commands the elect to repentance, but Jesus said He did not come to call those who are already saved (the righteous) to repentance, but those who are lost sinners and are spiritually sick.
In case you didn't know the elect are naturally sinners, Jesus came to call them to repentance.
 
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A New Dawn

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You can hold to free will and still believe you can't lose salvation. Many have this view.
According to the scriptures, if any of your salvation is of works, it is no longer of grace. The two are not compatible.

Romans 11:5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.
Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
 
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zoidar

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According to the scriptures, if any of your salvation is of works, it is no longer of grace. The two are not compatible.

Romans 11:5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice.
Romans 11:6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Salvation is certainly not by works, but by grace and faith, though I don't know what that has to do with free will.
 
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Brightfame52

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Salvation is certainly not by works, but by grace and faith, though I don't know what that has to do with free will.
Where does the Faith come from ? Whats its source ?
 
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