Another look at the moon landing.

Phil G · Sunday at 6:54 AM

Apple Sky said:
No, I just can't see how it possible for rockets to shoot through God's firmament ?

The English word "firmament" is a translation (from Latin) of a translation (from Greek) of a translation (from Hebrew).

If you want to know how it is possible for rockets to shoot through God's "firmament", then go to the original Hebrew word. That word is not so defined as to be able to say that it always means something solid. It can mean "expanse".

And there's absolutely no problem with a rocket shooting through God's created "expanse".

So, if you still believe the "firmament" to be solid, do you call Charles Duke a liar? A yes or no will suffice.

Apple Sky · Sunday at 7:25 AM

Phil G said:
If you want to know how it is possible for rockets to shoot through God's "firmament", then go to the original Hebrew word. That word is not so defined as to be able to say that it means something solid. It can mean "expanse".

And there absolutely no problem with a rocket shooting through God's created "expanse".

So, if you still believe the "firmament" to be solid, do you call Charles Duke a liar? A yes or no will suffice.

Not sure, as it does say;

The firmament is portrayed as a vast dome created by God to separate the waters above from those below, symbolizing order and structure imposed by the divine on the chaos of the primordial world.

In biblical cosmology, the firmament (raqia in Hebrew) is described as a solid, dome-like structure that separates the waters above from the waters below, acting as the sky. Some interpretations suggest it was made of a solid form of water or a hard, metal-like shell. It is depicted as a vast expanse or a vaulted dome, supporting the waters above and containing the sun, moon, and stars.

The two prominent representations of the firmament were that it was either flat and hovering over the Earth, or that it was a dome and entirely enclosed the Earth's surface. Beyond the firmament is the upper waters, above which further still is the divine abode.

The historical definition of “the water above the firmament” is, therefore, a veritable sea located above a solid firmament which is in turn located above the sun, moon, and stars.

In biblical cosmology, the firmament is the structure above the atmosphere of Earth, conceived as a vast solid dome. According to the Genesis creation narrative, God created the firmament to separate the "waters above" the earth from the "waters below" the earth.

Phil G · Sunday at 8:12 AM

Apple Sky said:
Not sure, as it does say;

The firmament is portrayed as a vast dome created by God to separate the waters above from those below, symbolizing order and structure imposed by the divine on the chaos of the primordial world.
In biblical cosmology, the firmament (raqia in Hebrew) is described as a solid, dome-like structure that separates the waters above from the waters below, acting as the sky. Some interpretations suggest it was made of a solid form of water or a hard, metal-like shell. It is depicted as a vast expanse or a vaulted dome, supporting the waters above and containing the sun, moon, and stars.

The two prominent representations of the firmament were that it was either flat and hovering over the Earth, or that it was a dome and entirely enclosed the Earth's surface. Beyond the firmament is the upper waters, above which further still is the divine abode.

The historical definition of “the water above the firmament” is, therefore, a veritable sea located above a solid firmament which is in turn located above the sun, moon, and stars.

In biblical cosmology, the firmament is the structure above the atmosphere of Earth, conceived as a vast solid dome. According to the Genesis creation narrative, God created the firmament to separate the "waters above" the earth from the "waters below" the earth.

It would be helpful to post a link to your sources.

However, the article I link to below is a good (and long) study on the firmament, and includes various theories and approaches:

The Firmament: What Did God Create on Day 2?

Considerable disagreement exists in the church about what God made on the second day of Creation Week in Genesis 1.

answersresearchjournal.org

The fact remains though, that our modern knowledge of reality completely falsifies the notion of a solid dome over the earth. If you want to try to convince me of such, you will have to show me an independent expedition where somebody flies a rocket to the very dome, extends a robotic arm to touch it, scrapes a piece off, brings it back to earth to be independently examined, and includes photographs and video footage of everything, including of a flat disc earth below. Only then will I consider the earth not being a globe and the firmament being solid. Because all other evidence is against such a notion.

How do we know Jesus wasn't speaking literally when He said He is a door, vine, bread or shepherd? Because the reality proves He was not being literal. It's the same with the "firmament". How do we know it's not solid? Because the reality proves it's not solid.

However, as @tharkun73 has pointed out, Scripture tells us that the sun moon and stars move in the firmament. And the sun moves differently to the moon, and both move differently to the stars. And the "wandering stars" (planets) move differently to all of them. If these are in the firmament as the Bible says, then the firmament cannot be solid.

You have shown on a different thread that you only take the words of Scripture literally when it suits you. For instance, you claim this verse is literal:

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." Joshua 10:13 KJV

But you don't take this verse literally:

"And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him." Genesis 15:12 KJV

You have said that the sun "appears to" go down, but that it's actually traveling further away. That's a serious inconsistency on your part.

People have pointed out to you that the sun stopping in Joshua was what it "appeared to" do to the people seeing it. And you tried to pass that off as nonsense. But now you have done the same thing. That's not just inconsistency, it's being hypocritical.

Apple Sky · Sunday at 10:07 AM

Phil G said:
It would be helpful to post a link to your sources.

However, the article I link to below is a good (and long) study on the firmament, and includes various theories and approaches:

The Firmament: What Did God Create on Day 2?

Considerable disagreement exists in the church about what God made on the second day of Creation Week in Genesis 1.

answersresearchjournal.org

The fact remains though, that our modern knowledge of reality completely falsifies the notion of a solid dome over the earth. If you want to try to convince me of such, you will have to show me an independent expedition where somebody flies a rocket to the very dome, extends a robotic arm to touch it, scrapes a piece off, brings it back to earth to be independently examined, and includes photographs and video footage of everything, including of a flat disc earth below. Only then will I consider the earth not being a globe and the firmament being solid. Because all other evidence is against such a notion.

How do we know Jesus wasn't speaking literally when He said He is a door, vine, bread or shepherd? Because the reality proves He was not being literal. It's the same with the "firmament". How do we know it's not solid? Because the reality proves it's not solid.

However, as @tharkun73 has pointed out, Scripture tells us that the sun moon and stars move in the firmament. And the sun moves differently to the moon, and both move differently to the stars. And the "wandering stars" (planets) move differently to all of them. If these are in the firmament as the Bible says, then the firmament cannot be solid.

You have shown on a different thread that you only take the words of Scripture literally when it suits you. For instance, you claim this verse is literal:

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." Joshua 10:13 KJV

But you don't take this verse literally:

"And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him." Genesis 15:12 KJV

You have said that the sun "appears to" go down, but that it's actually traveling further away. That's a serious inconsistency on your part.

People have pointed out to you that the sun stopping in Joshua was what it "appeared to" do to the people seeing it. And you tried to pass that off as nonsense. But now you have done the same thing. That's not just inconsistency, it's being hypocritical.

OK - I'll reconsider all that you've posted & get back to you.

Apple Sky · Monday at 4:48 AM

I have reconsidered what you have posted about the firmament & have come to realization that you may be right - But;

Phil G said:
People have pointed out to you that the sun stopping in Joshua was what it "appeared to"

About the sun stopping it is Literal.

Phil G said:
"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." Joshua 10:13 KJV

Phil G said:
You have shown on a different thread that you only take the words of Scripture literally when it suits you. For instance, you claim this verse is literal:

"And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day." Joshua 10:13 KJV

I take verses literally when there's no other reason not too, as for the sun stopping, the earth would have had to stood still & if the earth is supposedly rotating as you claim it is .............

Phil G · Monday at 5:30 AM

Apple Sky said:
I have reconsidered what you have posted about the firmament & have come to realization that you may be right

Ok

Apple Sky said:
About the sun stopping it is Literal.

Why?

If its "stopping" is literal, then its "going down" must be literal too. Yet you say it only "appears" to go down, that it's actually traveling further away.

Again, you're not explaining your reasoning on this, you're just making statements.

Apple Sky said:
I take verses literally when there's no other reason not too

But that's a globe earther's line! And the reason not to take the sun stopping as literal is because reality shows us that the apparent movement of the sun across the sky is due to the earth's rotation. If the sun was literally moving across the sky, then it would have to appear smaller at sunset (it doesn't) and at sunrise (it doesn't) as it is further from the observer at those times. This is something you have confirmed for yourself when you have said that it looks bigger at sunrise and smaller at noon.

Apple Sky said:
as for the sun stopping, the earth would have had to stood still & if the earth is supposedly rotating as you claim it is .............

The implication of what you are saying is that if the earth is a rotating globe, then for it to suddenly stop would mean everyone would fly off into space. And I agree....but....

You don't seem to understand that I do not deny God's involvement in His own creation. He is the Creator and He can overrule the normal workings of His own creation.

Regardless of what shape you believe the earth to be, or if it rotates or not, for the sun to "stop" in the sky would have required a miracle of God. That being the case, then why would it be that the earth's rotation would make any difference to God?

You seem to be arguing that if the earth is a rotating globe, then God cannot be involved in His own creation and overrule its normal workings. But that would be to deny God as sovereign over His own creation.

So to me your argument is a straw man.

Strong in Him · Monday at 8:43 AM

Apple Sky said:
About the sun stopping it is Literal.

How did Joshua - and how do you - know that the SUN stopped and not the earth?
Did he blast off into space and watch for himself?

No. He saw the effect.
It looks, from our perspective, as though the sun moves across the sky. It rises, and we have daylight; it sets and we have darkness. In fact, the earth is rotating on its axis and is either facing the sun or away from it. (That is probably the most unscientific explanation ever, but I'm not a scientist.)
Joshua prayed that the sun would "stop" and not go down - if it didn't set there wouldn't be any darkness so the Israelites would have enough time to finish their battle and defeat their enemies.
That is what happened. The God of Creation suspended the laws of nature because someone prayed and asked him to! That is almost as big a miracle as the physical one.
Result? The Israelites defeated their enemies and were reminded that God was on their side.

You seem to be a) ignoring the miracle and what God did and b) are getting absolutely fixated on one word. The result of that is dismissing, smearing and accusing all scientists, astronomers etc of lying/being deluded or fake.

Apple Sky said:
I take verses literally when there's no other reason not too,

That's not a very good method of reading Scripture. The best thing is to find out what the author intended, what the audience would have understood, the genre of writing etc.

If the sun had stood still, what would the result have been? 24 hours of daylight, (the first 24 hour sun.)
If the earth was rotating and it had stood still, what would the result have been? 24 hours of daylight.
That's what happened and that's what the miracle was. How sad that you can't see that but instead use what was written by someone on the ground, rather than in space, to denounce a whole load of people as liars and claim that the Bible teaches us about astronomy.

Apple Sky said:

Why "eek"? You don't believe the earth rotates anyway so why would you be alarmed to think that it might have stopped?

Apple Sky · Monday at 9:46 AM

Strong in Him said:
You don't believe the earth rotates anyway so why would you be alarmed to think that it might have stopped?

I'm not alarmed, I just don't believe it did, it would be like the film ' The day the earth stood still' ^_^

Apple Sky · Monday at 9:51 AM

Phil G said:
The implication of what you are saying is that if the earth is a rotating globe, then for it to suddenly stop would mean everyone would fly off into space. And I agree....but....

You don't seem to understand that I do not deny God's involvement in His own creation. He is the Creator and He can overrule the normal workings of His own creation.

In such a way that would implicate peoples lives on earth, I don't think so.

Phil G · Monday at 10:05 AM

Apple Sky said:
In such a way that would implicate peoples lives on earth, I don't think so.

What does that even mean?

Are you suggesting that God, the Creator and Sustainer of ALL of His creation, could not stop the earth from rotating and stop everybody from being launched off the earth at the same time?

Because if you are suggesting such a thing, then you limit God's ability. You are also limiting His sovereignty over His creation.

It's very strange to me that Christian flat earthers always head off on this tangent about God - that He couldn't suspend the laws of nature if the earth is a globe. It's just another reason why flat earthers sound completely irrational!!

Phil G · Monday at 10:08 AM

Apple Sky said:
I'm not alarmed, I just don't believe it did,

That sums up your attitude. No rational thinking, no logic, no reasoning - just "I don't believe it."

Apple Sky said:
it would be like the film ' The day the earth stood still'

That's a fictional film that leaves God out of it. So it wouldn't be like that film at all!

Apple Sky · Monday at 10:19 AM

Why have we never been back to th moon ?

A few comments I have read on line.

Randy Senna
· 6y

Can't do it now and couldn't do it then.

Rob Egan
· 7y

Anyone who dares investigation will flat out come to the conclusion we absolutely did not send men to the moon. Mind control to major Tom.
I would challenge you to even watch the astronauts press conference upon return.
The truth can be found in a Bond movie or Chilli Peppers song. “Space may be the final frontier, but it’s made in a Hollywood basement”.

Ashvin Meetoo
· 7y

Everything in me tells me that it was a hoax… it's just unimaginable that man had that technology and resource to send a manned spaceship from earth to moon and back.
And also some pictures was altered etc. It's the usual USA bs, too good to be true thing.

Bruce Howard
· 7y

Oh yes……its a hoax!!! No man has been on the moon. Simple as that…

Lynn Kempen
· 6y

Look into the materials used on the Apollo “space” craft. Then juxtapose the melting points of aluminum alloy and stainless steel with the professed temperatures of the ionosphere, theromosphere, and especially the plasmasphere.
Then come back and tell me we sent a tin can named Apollo to the Moon and back.

Strong in Him · Monday at 10:22 AM

Apple Sky said:
I'm not alarmed, I just don't believe it did, it would be like the film ' The day the earth stood still'

It doesn't matter what you believe - Joshua prayed, they had 24 hours of daylight and they were able to defeat their enemies.
Whether, 3,000 + years ago, it was literally the sun which stopped or the earth, the effect was the same.

The point is that a) a miracle happened and b) you are condemning science, astronomy and everything else because of your literal interpretation of one verse.

Phil G · Monday at 10:22 AM

Apple Sky said:
Why have we never been back to th moon ?

A few comments I have read on line.

Randy Senna
· 6y

Can't do it now and couldn't do it then.

Rob Egan
· 7y

Anyone who dares investigation will flat out come to the conclusion we absolutely did not send men to the moon. Mind control to major Tom.
I would challenge you to even watch the astronauts press conference upon return.
The truth can be found in a Bond movie or Chilli Peppers song. “Space may be the final frontier, but it’s made in a Hollywood basement”.

Ashvin Meetoo
· 7y

Everything in me tells me that it was a hoax… it's just unimaginable that man had that technology and resource to send a manned spaceship from earth to moon and back.
And also some pictures was altered etc. It's the usual USA bs, too good to be true thing.

Bruce Howard
· 7y

Oh yes……its a hoax!!! No man has been on the moon. Simple as that…

Lynn Kempen
· 6y

Look into the materials used on the Apollo “space” craft. Then juxtapose the melting points of aluminum alloy and stainless steel with the professed temperatures of the ionosphere, theromosphere, and especially the plasmasphere.
Then come back and tell me we sent a tin can named Apollo to the Moon and back.

So yet another deflection instead of answering the questions put to you.

And in light of your deflection, are you now calling Christian astronaut Charles Duke a liar when he emphatically states he went to and walked on the moon? Yes or no please....

Apple Sky · Monday at 10:30 AM

Phil G said:
Are you suggesting that God, the Creator and Sustainer of ALL of His creation, could not stop the earth from rotating and stop everybody from being launched off the earth at the same time?

Sorry but Yes.

Phil G said:
So yet another deflection instead of answering the questions put to you.

And what were they again ?

Phil G · Monday at 10:33 AM

Apple Sky said:
Sorry but Yes.

Oh dear!!!!

So you are a Christian who denies God's sovereignty over His creation because....why???

Would it be too difficult for Him to do such a thing??????????

I think you need to seriously reflect on what you are saying here.

Strong in Him · Monday at 10:36 AM

Apple Sky said:
Why have we never been back to th moon ?

A few comments I have read on line.

Randy Senna
· 6y

Can't do it now and couldn't do it then.

Wrong.

Apple Sky said:
Anyone who dares investigation will flat out come to the conclusion we absolutely did not send men to the moon.

The US sent several of them actually - and some of them walked on it.

Apple Sky said:
I would challenge you to even watch the astronauts press conference upon return.

Which time?

List of missions to the Moon - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Apple Sky said:
Ashvin Meetoo
· 7y

Everything in me tells me that it was a hoax… it's just unimaginable that man had that technology and resource to send a manned spaceship from earth to moon and back.

So he didn't watch it on tv and doesn't know his history.

Apple Sky said:
Oh yes……its a hoax!!! No man has been on the moon.

Several have, and 12 of them have walked on it.
4 of those 12 are still alive and some of them are Christians - simple as that.

Apple Sky said:
Then come back and tell me we sent a tin can named Apollo to the Moon and back.

Tin can? No. Well designed rocket, yes, several of them.
Some of them had problems or caught fire after take off - I guess it was also a hoax that men lost their lives and children were left without fathers?

Strong in Him · Monday at 10:38 AM

Apple Sky said:
Sorry but Yes.

So you doubt that God has control over his creation and is powerful enough to do a miracle? Oh dear.

I'd forget about conspiracy theories and read the Bible, if I were you.
(Not that I'd ever be you because conspiracy theories are ridiculous and just theories.)

Phil G · Monday at 10:40 AM

Apple Sky said:
And what were they again ?

Let's try this one again:

Are you now calling Christian astronaut Charles Duke a liar when he emphatically states he went to and walked on the moon? Yes or no please....

d taylor · Monday at 11:02 AM

-

The moon landing along with other events in this age are just shadows of events to come. Like earthquakes, wars, people killing (violence), natural disasters.

The moon landing would be tied into the deception foreshadowing. Like the coming deception's in Revelation 13 dealing with the image of the beast. A statue who after being constructed will be able to speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.

This just shows people are and will be deceived who dwell on the earth. In this age even believers are deceived about God's creation, which is really adding fuel for satan's coming deceptions.

Another look at the moon landing.

Grafted In

In Sight Like Unto An Emerald

The firmament is portrayed as a vast dome created by God to separate the waters above from those below, symbolizing order and structure imposed by the divine on the chaos of the primordial world.​

Grafted In

The firmament is portrayed as a vast dome created by God to separate the waters above from those below, symbolizing order and structure imposed by the divine on the chaos of the primordial world.​

In Sight Like Unto An Emerald

In Sight Like Unto An Emerald

Grafted In

Great is thy faithfulness

In Sight Like Unto An Emerald

In Sight Like Unto An Emerald

Grafted In

Grafted In

In Sight Like Unto An Emerald

Great is thy faithfulness

Grafted In

In Sight Like Unto An Emerald

Grafted In

Great is thy faithfulness

Great is thy faithfulness

Grafted In

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The firmament is portrayed as a vast dome created by God to separate the waters above from those below, symbolizing order and structure imposed by the divine on the chaos of the primordial world.

The firmament is portrayed as a vast dome created by God to separate the waters above from those below, symbolizing order and structure imposed by the divine on the chaos of the primordial world.