Regarding the origin of the body of Jesus Christ

I have a yoke on my shoulders. The yoke of the word of the Lord. And I must testify to this yoke; otherwise, woe is me. My request to those reading this email is to submit it to your elders and pastor, and those who are most knowledgeable about the Scriptures. Therefore, I want to begin with a disclaimer: I am not part of an organized cult.
But what is it? My fear is the fear of the Lord, without respect of persons.

Even though God's word—namely, what I am to testify to the world—conflicts with human traditions, creeds, church councils, commentaries of men, and religious authorities, I am still obligated before the Lord to testify of His word. Even though, as a result, I am personally slandered, looked at with disdain, attacked, hated, ridiculed, or no longer considered welcome in churches.

I have to answer to Him. And this is also the privilege of His witnesses, to be slandered for the sake of the word of the Lord.

Therefore, do not regard what I am now going to write to you as a personal attack on you as a person or as a church, for my fight is not against flesh and blood, and I hope yours is not either.

If I make any errors in the citation of Scripture, the corresponding verse numbering, or any spelling mistakes, I apologize in advance. I'm not perfect.

I pray that the Lord will grant you discernment in what I write to you. Whether it is from the Lord or not, you are free to do with it as you wish, accept it or reject it. By informing you, I have at least done my part, and my hands are clean. Let me now begin my argument with you: Why is the man Jesus Christ the Son of God, and why is Jesus Christ the Lord?

Virtually all Christian denominations in the world today profess that Jesus is the Son of God and the Lord. Roman Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Reformed, Adventists, Baptists, and even Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarian groups, and so on. They all profess that Jesus is the Son of God and the Lord—although they differ widely on the definition of these terms.

In this argument, I will omit how Jehovah's Witnesses and Unitarian groups confess Jesus as the Son of God and their Lord, because these groups are relatively small compared to the dominant denomination I will be discussing, the faith also professed by most people on this site.

We must ask ourselves, is a confession genuine if one doesn't truly understand what one is saying, or if one misunderstands what one is confessing? Does such a confession have any value with God? Does God seek our lips, or our hearts?

What says the word of the Lord?

Matthew 15:8-9 This people draws near to me with their mouths, and honors me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Yet in vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.

Mark 7:13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.

For in a certain place, Jesus also testifies:

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven.

The general Christian understanding of the terms "Son of God" and "Lord" is held by the vast majority of Christian denominations, from Roman Catholics to Evangelicals and everything in between. This is embodied in two creeds: the Nicene and the Athanasian.

These confessions aimed to summarize the universal Christian faith and thereby unite Christians. Christianity at that time was also deeply divided on this issue.

Jesus Christ teaches us to test everything by its fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit. This is a good standard by which to test everything. It also applies to each of us personally. If we have the truth, the fruit, and with it, God's promises, should become visible in our lives. For without works, faith is dead, and the gospel is not of word alone, but also of power. Anyone who thinks they believe correctly is obliged to walk as Jesus Christ himself.

First, we may ask ourselves, have these confessions succeeded in keeping Christians in unity and in producing the good fruit of God's word?

In summary, these two confessions teach us that God is a single triune being, consisting of three eternal persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. All three persons are co-eternal and co-equal, and the same being. However, the persons cannot be intermixed. God is therefore one being in three persons, and three persons in one being, but never one person alone or three separate beings. This is called an incomprehensible mystery. It is accepted as a progressive insight from the Scriptures, gradually revealed to the church, and what sets Christianity apart from all other religions. Within this doctrine, the man Jesus Christ is confessed with two natures: man from Mary, and God from God; namely, the second divine person of the triune God, God the Son, whom they hold to be the divine Son of God.

When these creeds were formulated in the 300s and 400s AD, the Roman government had to enforce them on the population by force and sword. Gradually, anyone who thought differently was silenced and expelled from the Roman Empire, and later even killed.

Anyone who thought differently was labeled a heretic.


Thus, the way was paved for the increasing censorship of God's word in the Middle Ages, and in its place came the confessions. One was only allowed to read and understand God's word through the lens of these confessions. Anything beyond that was taboo, and no questions were allowed.

Gradually, the European people fell into a deep darkness, which, while nominally Christian, were in practice the opposite. Rites, pilgrimages, indulgences, rosaries, image veneration, Marian devotion, the influence of Greco-Roman philosophies, gigantic cathedrals with outward splendor and pomp.

All of this replaced the simplicity of the Gospel and God's word. The opulent lives of the bishops reflected nothing of the life of the suffering Messiah. But the Church ruled by force. The writings and commentaries of Church Fathers supplanted the writings of the Gospel. The popes increasingly amassed power. Even kings were subordinated to the power of the popes. The word of the pope replaced truth, and anyone who disagreed lost the right to live and were hunted down by the Inquisition.

More and more blasphemous doctrines were invented, such as the obligatory observance of Sunday, the obligatory Eucharist, purgatory, indulgences, the perpetual virginity and sinlessness of Mary, and the elevation of Mary to Queen of Heaven. Also, the infallibility of the Pope and his blasphemous titles of Holy Father and Vicar of Christ.

Possession of a Bible was prohibited, and punishable by death. Crusades burned entire villages to the ground, on the Pope's orders. Men, women, and children throughout the continent were tortured and burned alive, all in the name of Christ and God. Dissenters were hunted down by mercenary armies, hired heretic hunters, in the mountains and forests of Europe. People were excluded from society, the economy, and everyday life if they refused to submit to the authority of the state church.

Unfortunately, few people today are well-informed about their history. And when the Reformation finally gained momentum, and people began organized resistance to this injustice of the state church, Europe entered a series of religious wars with an internal chaos unprecendented around the world. But today, Christianity is still more divided than many other religion on earth.

My conclusion, therefore, is that all of this can be traced back to its root. And that is not God's word—but the commandments of people who render God's word of none effect.

Jesus Christ had already prophesied all of this. His word is the good seed, and we are the field. The good seed of God cannot produce bad fruit. But the workers in Jesus' parable saw bad fruit growing among the good fruit and wondered how this was possible. Jesus said that the adversary, Satan, also sowed his bad seed among the good seed. The workers asked if they should take it out, but Jesus said no, because then they might also take out the good. So he said to let it grow together until the harvest, and then the difference will be made.

This evil seed is the word of Satan—and this is the word of men.

When Peter contradicted Jesus and declared that Jesus would not be crucified, Jesus said

Matthew 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; for you do not savour the things that are of God, but the things that are of men."

So Peter spoke for a time the word of Satan, the inventions of men.

And this word of Satan, which stands in contrast to the word of God, is precisely those creeds, those church councils, and those teachings of men that render God's word powerless and obscure the light of the gospel. However pious, learned, and true they may sound, and however closely they may attempt to approach the truth, they are not inspired and should not be considered as such and therefore should not form the foundation of our faith or our unity: they will never achieve sound faith or unity, and history is proof of that.

A house built on any other foundation than the word of God alone will ultimately fall. All the evil and divisions that stain and still obscure Christianity are found in these human teachings. If Christians want to be witnesses of the truth to the world and see God's promises fulfilled in their lives, they must limit themselves to God's word alone. How is it possible that thousands of denominations today, while fundamentally professing the same faith, cannot live together under one roof? This cannot be the fruit of the truth, because the truth, God's Word, leads to unity among believers, such a profound unity that worthily testifies to the world that Jesus is the truth.

Let us now examine what the Bible has to say about the concepts of "Son of God" and "Lord" in relation to Jesus, apart from the generally accepted confessions of faith.

The word of God gives simple answers to the question why the man Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Let us cite two testimonies for this:

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore also that Holy One who will be born of you will be called the Son of God."

Matthew 1:20 And while he was thinking about these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife to you, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit."

Here, then, we have two testimonies from Scripture that explain why the man Jesus is called the Son of God: Because He is a man who would be born of God.

Jesus Christ testified to this many times in his life. John the Baptist, his disciples, and Paul also testify to this. Above all, God himself testifies to this. Therefore, we need have no doubt that the man Jesus is the Son of God.

But what does it mean that the man Jesus was born of God? This belief has far-reaching consequences.

If you're still not convinced that the man Jesus came from God, let's cite a list of testimonies that show that the man Jesus was born of God.

- John 2:4 Jesus said to her, "Woman, what have I to do with you? My hour has not yet come." We already see that the man Jesus distanced himself from Mary early in his ministry. Yes, Joseph and Mary are the legal parents of Jesus. But Jesus never actually calls Mary his mother in the Scriptures. And this aligns with the testimony that the man Jesus is from God, and therefore not truly of Joseph and Mary. This contrasts with the human doctrine of Athanasius, which teaches that Mary is the literal mother of the man Jesus.

- John 3:13 And no one has ascended to heaven but he who came down from heaven, the Son of Man. Here the man Jesus says he has already come down from heaven. In effect, Jesus is saying that he was born of God.

The only thing that literally descended from heaven was the Spirit of God, which overshadowed Mary. But because the man Jesus was conceived by that Spirit, he descended, as it were, from heaven. This man may claim equality with that Spirit. He is entitled to it.

John the Baptist himself also testifies that the man Jesus is from heaven: John 3:31 He who comes from above is above all; he who is of the earth is of the earth, and speaks from the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all; 32 and he testifies to what he has seen and heard, and no one accepts his testimony.

Jesus himself testifies of John the Baptist that John is the greatest man born of women. By this, Jesus essentially implies that he is not of Mary. For John testifies of Jesus Christ, that Jesus is greater than everyone. So Jesus is not of the woman, but of God.

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:

Sadly, few people today accept this testimony. It is a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense. The Catholic Church and the teachings of Athanasius hold that the man Jesus was formed from"the flesh" of Mary. True, with the help of God's spirit, but nonetheless from her flesh and blood. A biological link is sought as an excuse for the veneration of Mary, which has become increasingly worse over the centuries. If the truth were to come out that Jesus has no biological link to Mary at all, this house of cards of lies would collapse. So there are very strong interests in concealing the truth. Yet God's word shines like a light in the darkness, and "the darkness has not overcome it."

Unfortunately, this false doctrine regarding the origin of the body of Jesus is also professed by the vast majority of Protestant churches. This blinds them to the true meaning of the Son of God.
And only when one truly recognizes and confesses who the body of Christ is from and of, will one's eyes be opened to who the Spirit of the body of Christ truly is.

But doesn't Paul say that Jesus Christ, according to the flesh, is the son of David? As he makes clear in Romans 1? Paul does indeed say this, and it is true.

However, the church fathers misunderstood what Paul meant, and you probably as well. You probably think that Paul is talking about Jesus ''his flesh." But that's not what Paul means. He's talking about "the flesh," a very important distinction. Unfortunately, this distinction has been erased in many modern translations, and people have translated their own understanding into the Bible to maintain the physical link with Mary. So one has to go to the older translations to see this important distinction.

By "according to the flesh," Paul means something quite different from "the flesh of Christ."
He is referring to the "carnal mind," and that is, ours.

According to the carnal mind, that is, according to appearances, Jesus Christ is indeed the son of David. But, according to the spirit, that is, according to truth, the man Jesus Christ is the Son of God, a body wholly of God. That is the true meaning and recognition of Jesus' sonship according to the testimony of God's word.

We humans are naturally carnal. We judge according to the flesh. That is, what seems outwardly true. But what did Jesus say?

John 8:15 You judge according to the flesh; I judge no one.

In both genealogies, in Matthew and Luke, Jesus Christ is considered the son of David, because of Joseph. Joseph was a literal son of David, and he was also the father of Jesus "according to the flesh," that is, only supposedly-so. We all know that Joseph was not his literal biological father; Scripture leaves no room for interpretation. But few recognize that Mary is not his literal mother either.

The Jews thought (and still think today) that the Messiah will be a literal physical descendant of David. But Jesus refutes this idea with a very clever question.

Matthew 22:42 And he said, "What think you of Christ? Whose son is he?" They said to him, "The son of David." 43 He said to them, "How then does David in spirit call him Lord?" And the Jews had no answer.

Paul also testifies:
1 Corinthians 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.

What a sea of testimonies! And this is just the beginning. If you read the Bible carefully with this new insight, the Scriptures will open up more and more for you.

The Son of God, namely the second Adam, is not of the body of Mary and therefore not of the first Adam. But he is a spotless Lamb of God, and from God. No one has contributed to God's redemption but God alone. Not even Mary. The doctrine that the man Jesus was built from Mary's flesh has led to Mary being made into an idol. She is called "queen of heaven" and "mother of the church," and even "mother of God." She is even considered sinless. For if Jesus was sinless, then Mary must also be, if he is of her flesh.

It's logical that the satan his counter-church calls Mary its "mother." Since the body of Jesus is the church, and thus the origin of this body, determines who is its head. If the origin is Mary, then she is also its head. But the truth testifies otherwise. God is the head of Christ, and Christ is the head of the body. (1 Corinthians 11:3)

Mary is simply a blessed, chosen sister. And in doing so, I will fulfill the prophecy that all nations will consider her blessed, in a scriptural correct way. Blessed are you, Miriam, among women, that you had the privilige to carry in your womb the Son of God!

As I mentioned earlier, the revelation of the origin of the body of Christ also leads to the revelation of who the Spirit of Christ is.

God is that Spirit. The only true God, the LORD, the Eternal Father.

And only when one realizes this can one truly confess, Jesus Christ is Lord, to the honor and glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:11)

For God is Spirit. The Spirit of Christ.

Thus, the Father receives all glory, because it is He, in Christ, who does all miracles and works (John 14:10). The Son "can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father doing" (John 5:19), and he "who sees me sees not me, but him who sent me" (John 12:45). And "no one comes to the Father except through me." And: "He who believes in me, believes not in me, but in him who sent me" (John 12:44).

Unfortunately, many Christians today confess Jesus Christ as their Lord without truly understanding what they are saying. Or worse, they even have a completely wrong understanding. Many think that by confessing Jesus as Lord, they recognize him as a second, eternal Divine Person, alongside God the Father.

But how then does the Father receive all glory through their confession? Unfortunately, people don't think that far.

If Jesus Christ is a fully independent divine person: "God the Son," a term that, incidentally, appears nowhere in the Bible, what purpose does the Father serve?

In fact, they dishonor the Father, albeit unconsciously, with their confession, while thinking they are honoring God. Truly confessing Jesus as Lord with the proper understanding is therefore essential for properly worshiping the Father.

We must fear Jesus' words: "Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter the kingdom of God, but only those who do the will of my Father." (Matthew 7:21-23)

When one comes to understand that God the Father is the eternal Spirit, the great I AM, and that He is the LORD, immeasurably great and almighty, and that the man Jesus is completely from Him, and therefore the Son of God, and thereby that God is His indwelling Spirit—and therefore we must confess Jesus as the LORD—then the way is revealed to true worship of God the Father. In spirit and in truth. In and through the name of Jesus Christ. And this is the worship that the true God, the Father, seeks.

So the adversary does everything he can to prevent people from recognizing the truth and from being set free through it.
What better way than to get very close to the truth and twist it from within?

You will argue with me: but the New Testament makes a clear distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I don't deny this. But why does this distinction exist?

If we seriously study the Old Testament, we don't encounter this distinction there. When the word of the Father comes to a prophet, it is the Father who speaks. And when the Father pours out His spirit, it is He Himself who takes up residence in a person.

It's no wonder the Jews reject the Trinity doctrine. There's simply no Old Testament basis for it. The Law and the Prophets don't testify to it. All the standard rhetoric: "Let us make man," "the so-called angel of the Lord," and so on, is easily refuted. But to the Jews this is all laughable. I won't go into that now, but I do want to make it clear that I know all the arguments for a so-called Trinity in the Old Testament. I can say with absolute certainty that the Old Testament doesn't testify to it. All arguments for a triune God in the Old Testament are flawed and can be refuted with Scripture.

Let me put it this way: the reason for the distinction between Jesus and God in the New Testament is for our sake. Because of the flesh of Jesus Christ. He did not come to break the Scriptures, but to fulfill them. God Himself will explain everything to you about His word and why Jesus speaks as He does, and why there must now be a distinction between Jesus and God, because of the body of Christ. If you acknowledge and believe in your heart that the man Jesus is truly the son of God, and not of Joseph and Mary, and not of Mary and God, God will begin to explain His words to you, without needing human commentary, as He promised.

I would also like to add that if the model of our faith prevents us from confessing the words of Jesus, the truth, then our faith is flawed.
The majority of Christians today cannot confess that the Father is the only true God. Because it clashes with their model.
But Jesus could, Paul, and the rest as well.

I hope that you too may find and discover the one true God, the eternal Father, in the body of Christ, the Son of the Father. He is the greatest treasure one can find, for He is the eternal Spirit of Life.

I will end this argument with a few beautiful verses:

Matthew 11:28...no one knows the Father except the Son, and to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of man which is in him? Even so, the things of God no one knows, except the Spirit of God.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.

2 Corinthians 3:17: Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

John 8:36 If the Son then sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.

Is the truth indeed that simple? That there is only 1 God, and 1 man out of God, and that the Spirit, is the same? Do you dare to believe that the man Jesus Christ, is truly the son of God?

PloverWing said:

So, just to clarify your position: Are you saying that Jesus was not born of Mary? Did someone else give birth to him, or do you believe he appeared as a full-grown adult?

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He was born out of her, but not of her. He was born of God. As he testifies.and John testify. But few receive the testimony.

No man born of a woman is greater than John the Baptist.

KolQoreBaMidbar said:

He was born out of her, but not of her. He was born of God. As he testifies.and John testify. But few receive the testimony.

No man born of a woman is greater than John the Baptist.

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This was the revelation which Peter reiceved, hence he confessed the man, as the son of the living God.

The spirit of truth, is the spirit of the man Christ. Christ is the truth. The man Jesus Christ did not speak of himself, but only what he reiceved of God. That is why Christ says, when the spirit of truth is come, he will not speak of himself, because he, will take of Christ, and reveal it to you. The spirit (God) will take of the head (Christ), and the body (the church) will receive from the spirit (God).

Remember, Christ often spoke of himself in third person.

If you think the spirit of and inside the man Jesus Christ, namely that holy spirit of God, the Father, is another seperate divine person, you are greatly mistaken. That spirit is the very essence of God, the Father. And because of that spirit in and of the man Christ, he can claim to be the I AM, the LORD, and claim God (The Father) dwells in Him, doing the works.

The essence of God, the father, is spirit, set-apart spirit.
His holy spirit is set apart from all other spirits, who all originate out and of and owe their existence to that holy self-existence of God, the father of spirits. Nonetheless God is seperate and unique and above them all, hence he is called the holy spirit.

The scriptures also calls Joseph the father of Jesus. And you could argue, Mary is more mother of Jesus than Joseph is his father, because the word was made flesh in her womb, and the child genuinely grew inside her, as I do believe. But neither of them are the real parents of Jesus, who has only 1 parent, the one true God, even his Father, out of whom he proceedeth forth. For this reason scripture does nor record the man calling Mary his mother.

According to the flesh, Mary is absolutely his mother, and Joseph his father. According to the flesh, doesn't mean Christ his flesh, but only what supposedly, externally seems true, according to the carnal minds of men. That is what Paul and Jesus mean, with 'according to the flesh'. In no wise is Paul talking about the literal flesh of Christ.

The church fathers were evidently also in the flesh when they conceived this doctrine that Paul was talking about the flesh of Christ. In the days of Paul there was no hypostatic Jesus. Only the son of God, the man Jesus Christ, who came out of the true God, and in whom the true God dwells bodily.

David Lamb said:

You seem to be saying that the Holy Spirit is God the Father. That cannot be so, for Jesus said to His disciples:

““But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.” (Joh 14:26 NKJV)

The Father didn't send Himself.

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The Father is holy spirit, that is his essence. The man Jesus was born out of that Spirit, hence God is his Father.
The Father sending His spirit into us, is His essence coming to dwell in us. Because in the new testament, the Father gave His own spirit to a man, His word-made-flesh, His son, who inherited all divine Power, His spirit now has a second identity, that of a man, who can feel our infirmities, seated at the right hand of the Power. And because God is not a man, and scripture cannot be broken, that man does not claim equality with God.

When the holy spirit comes to live in us, it is God , the Father, and the man Jesus, the son of God, making their abode in us, and dining with us. Because Their Spirit is one and the same, and it carries the very presence and essence of God and his Christ.

I am saying that the human nature, his flesh and blood, was in no wise derived of Mary, but wholly derived of God His Spirit-essence. Hence the son of God, the man Jesus Christ is the express mirror image of the Deity, whose face no man can see and live. The human nature of Christ is the man Jesus, and that proceedeth forth of God, hence God is that man' his Father and hence they crucified him, because he made himself to be the son of God. Mary only carried and nursed the child, but his real brothers and mother are those who hear the word of God and perform it.

John 9:29
We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from.”

Sadly most professing christians today, like the Jews back then, still don't know where the man Jesus came from. But Peter knew, and Paul, and the rest.