A whites-only community in Arkansas looking to start a franchise in Missouri

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 10:53 AM

ozso said:
People tooting their own horns to such a large degree usually comes off as disingenuous.

So if I, a Christian, express my desire to follow Jesus, and point out the ideals and virtues which the Christian religion have taught for 2,000 years, that is disingenuous?

Because the desire to have empathy is simply taking Jesus seriously. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The fact that I want to be a disciple of Jesus, and not just play religious pretend, is something that I remember used to be celebrated in the Church.

Why is being a Christian now something which so many Christians hate?

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 11:00 AM

Ophiolite said:
We do? I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm asking for examples of suicidal empathy. I don't understand what that is, how it would manifest.

As for pathalogical altruism, as I've never previously heard or seen those two words in combination I am having difficulty in deciding what you may mean by them. As a left wing, tree hugging socialist I'm haven't discerned any tendency for my active altruism to run out of control. Perhaps you will be able to enlighten me.

(Please ignore the sub-text in above. That's just a side effect of supressed altruism and omission of empathy. )

"Pathological altruism" is a fun expression. It's like "rampant compassion".

Also, what is it called when someone loves people so much that they die on a cross for them?

"Jesus is absolutely out of control, He loves everyone too much. Did you see how He was having dinner with prostitutes, tax-collectors, and spending time in that leper colony?" - A disgruntled Pharisee, or modern day Fundamentalist, it's hard to tell the difference

-CryptLutheran

ozso · Tuesday at 11:02 AM

ViaCrucis said:
So if I, a Christian, express my desire to follow Jesus, and point out the ideals and virtues which the Christian religion have taught for 2,000 years, that is disingenuous?

Because the desire to have empathy is simply taking Jesus seriously. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The fact that I want to be a disciple of Jesus, and not just play religious pretend, is something that I remember used to be celebrated in the Church.

Why is being a Christian now something which so many Christians hate?

-CryptoLutheran

No it's the relatively new routine of "WE HAVE EMPATHY! LOOK AT HOW MUCH EMPATHY WE HAVE! WE HAVE EMAPATY AND YOU DON'T!"

There's oodles of atheists on the left proclaiming it as well. Does that mean atheists have Christian values? That they're following Jesus?

I think it's much more a case of Christians following them and adopting their secular version of a Jesus who supports worldly ways.

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 11:24 AM

ozso said:
No it's the relatively new routine of "WE HAVE EMPATHY! LOOK AT HOW MUCH EMPATHY WE HAVE! WE HAVE EMAPATY AND YOU DON'T!"

There's oodles of atheists on the left proclaiming it as well. Does that mean atheists have Christian values? That they're following Jesus?

St. Paul, referring to the Pagan Greeks said this:

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law unto themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus." - Romans 2:12-16

The broader context is, ultimately, "All have sinned and fall short" (Romans 3:23), but the Apostle here is condemning those who believe themselves righteous because they received the Law. As though knowing the Law, but failing to do the Law, somehow makes one better, or more righteous, in the sight of God; it is not merely knowing what is written in the Law that matters, it is doing what the Law says that matters. So when a Pagan does what is right and in accordance with the Law, it is better and more noble than when someone who knows what the Law says but fails to do it anyway, "While you preach against stealing, do you steal?"

So if an atheist does what is in accordance to the revealed goodness and justice of God, but the Christian does not, then what does that say? When we stand on that Great Day before the Throne of Judgment and all our secrets are exposed before the light, which will prevail? Our muttering "Lord! Lord!" or actually doing the will of our Father in heaven (Matthew 7:21-23).

If we claim to fear God, but instead live emboldened by our sin, then we receive a double portion of condemnation. I do not expect an atheist to follow Jesus--for obvious reasons. But if we think of ourselves as better than atheists because we call ourselves "Christians", but the atheist, by means of their conscience, does what is right and we ourselves do not; then calling ourselves "Christian" becomes entirely meaningless. And we shall--and rightly so--be condemned doubly.

"The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. That servant who knows his master's will but does not get ready or act according to His will, will be beaten with many blows. But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required." - Luke 12:46-48

If you think "Oh, so the atheist does something right?" is a good rebuttal, then you should take the time to go back and read your Bible more. If you think being a Christian is a defense against ungodliness, then that is not only deeply flawed, it's dangerous to your eternal health.

Grace is not an excuse to live licentiously. The Day is coming, and we must give an answer.

The Christian ought to live with holy fear. "For it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God." The Christian who thinks he shall be spared, but the unbelieving shall be condemned has no fear of God, and is no better (but certainly may be worse) than the unbeliever they wish to judge. For there is only one Judge. And we aren't Him. "For with that same judgment you judge, you too will be judged."

-CryptoLutheran

ozso · Tuesday at 11:45 AM

ViaCrucis said:
St. Paul, referring to the Pagan Greeks said this:

"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law unto themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus." - Romans 2:12-16

The broader context is, ultimately, "All have sinned and fall short" (Romans 3:23), but the Apostle here is condemning those who believe themselves righteous because they received the Law. As though knowing the Law, but failing to do the Law, somehow makes one better, or more righteous, in the sight of God; it is not merely knowing what is written in the Law that matters, it is doing what the Law says that matters. So when a Pagan does what is right and in accordance with the Law, it is better and more noble than when someone who knows what the Law says but fails to do it anyway, "While you preach against stealing, do you steal?"

So if an atheist does what is in accordance to the revealed goodness and justice of God, but the Christian does not, then what does that say? When we stand on that Great Day before the Throne of Judgment and all our secrets are exposed before the light, which will prevail? Our muttering "Lord! Lord!" or actually doing the will of our Father in heaven (Matthew 7:21-23).

If we claim to fear God, but instead live emboldened by our sin, then we receive a double portion of condemnation. I do not expect an atheist to follow Jesus--for obvious reasons. But if we think of ourselves as better than atheists because we call ourselves "Christians", but the atheist, by means of their conscience, does what is right and we ourselves do not; then calling ourselves "Christian" becomes entirely meaningless. And we shall--and rightly so--be condemned doubly.

"The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers. That servant who knows his master's will but does not get ready or act according to His will, will be beaten with many blows. But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required." - Luke 12:46-48

If you think "Oh, so the atheist does something right?" is a good rebuttal, then you should take the time to go back and read your Bible more. If you think being a Christian is a defense against ungodliness, then that is not only deeply flawed, it's dangerous to your eternal health.

Grace is not an excuse to live licentiously. The Day is coming, and we must give an answer.

The Christian ought to live with holy fear. "For it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God." The Christian who thinks he shall be spared, but the unbelieving shall be condemned has no fear of God, and is no better (but certainly may be worse) than the unbeliever they wish to judge. For there is only one Judge. And we aren't Him. "For with that same judgment you judge, you too will be judged."

-CryptoLutheran

That doesn't change the fact that the ungodly redefine Jesus to fit worldliness, and some Christians adopt that view. And I'd say that's what's dangerous to your eternal health. Because it makes you a friend of the world. And if your're a friend of the world, you're an enemy of God (James 4:4). The ungodly bill themselves as having Christlike empathy to virtue signal and to deceive. And too many Christians let themselves get deceived by it and fall in with them.

LizaMarie · Tuesday at 11:58 AM

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:
China town and Black cities allow white people in their cities and towns.

This. Also, they have explicitly said no Jews will be allowed to live there, as well.

LizaMarie · Tuesday at 12:03 PM

ViaCrucis said:
Folks, if your first response to reading about a white supremacist group wanting to create a whites-only commune is to play a game of whataboutism, then you probably should do some deep, deep soul searching.

-CryptoLUtheran

And has been pointed out here upthread, white people ARE allowed to moved into all- black, hispanic or Asian communities. This community in Missouri is explicitly saying non- whites (and Jews) will not be allowed.

durangodawood · Tuesday at 2:12 PM

ozso said:
.....And if your're a friend of the world, you're an enemy of God (James 4:4). .....

If you are not a friend of the world, then are you an enemy of it? Indifferent to it?

ozso · Tuesday at 2:45 PM

durangodawood said:
If you are not a friend of the world, then are you an enemy of it? Indifferent to it?

Yes, if you're not a friend of the world than you're an enemy of the world. There are Christians who are hated by the world, and there are Christians who are loved by the world. The ones who are loved by the world are the ones who go along with the world.

Jesus says: “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. (John 15:18-19).

ozso · Tuesday at 2:52 PM

LizaMarie said:
This. Also, they have explicitly said no Jews will be allowed to live there, as well.

LizaMarie said:
And has been pointed out here upthread, white people ARE allowed to moved into all- black, hispanic or Asian communities. This community in Missouri is explicitly saying non- whites (and Jews) will not be allowed.

Those were bad examples because they're not small parcels of isolated rural land. If you buy 160 acres of rural land way out in the sticks, you get to decide who if anyone is allowed to go onto your land. All kinds of people buy parcels of isolated rural land for that exact purpose.

Trogdor the Burninator · Tuesday at 4:44 PM

LizaMarie said:
This. Also, they have explicitly said no Jews will be allowed to live there, as well.

Because nothing says Christian like excluding Jesus from living in your neighbourhood.

2025 and Christians are supporting people who want whites-only suburbs. Jesus wept.

ralliann · Tuesday at 6:17 PM

ViaCrucis said:
Would you say that part of the culture of the UK is the English language? Even though it was the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes who brought the earliest form of what we call English? Even though the language was assimilated among the Brittons, and even eventually among the Scots of northern Britain? Even though English assimilated a layer of Norman French after William conquered England? And so all the greater literary works, the Canterbury Tales, the works of Shakespeare are the product of an assimilated language--those are still part of English, and even more broadly, British culture?

How about English Common Law practices which were also introduced largely by the Normans following the conquest?

Let's talk about America's own literary traditions, the works of Melville, Twain, or Salinger? Not American culture?

Let's talk about food, Italy is famous for its culinary tradition and food culture, can you think of anything more Italian than a Neapolitan pizza or pasta with a tomato-based sauce? And yet, the tomato is a crop from the Americas. An imported crop that has become not only a major component of the food culture of Italy, but in many of the cultural traditions of Europe. The same is true of the potato, a tuber that originates from the Peruvian Andes.

But let's go back to Italy, we talk about "Italy" as though it were a single nation and we talk about an "Italian culture"--but up until the 1800s Italy didn't exist. The peninsula was for centuries a patchwork of states, the Pope ruled the Papal States from Rome (Vatican City is the vestige of the old Papal States), and there were the famous city-states of Florence, Genoa, Venice, with unique traditions all their own. And before the rise of the Italian city-states, before Charlemagne's conquest, there was the Kingdom of the Lombards, one of the Germanic states that appeared during the Migration period, where after the fall of Rome the Germanic tribal nations settled and established their own kingdoms throughout Western Europe--the Kingdom of the Franks, the Kingdom of the Lombards, the Kingdom of the Visigoths. And all these kingdoms and peoples settled and assimilated into the local populations, influencing language, local laws, creating amalgamations of culture; forging cultural developments out of the old Roman cultural traditions which had dominated in these regions with new and foreign traditions introduced by these migratory and now settled tribes.

Go anywhere and you'll find these same historical forces at work. Every village, every region, every modern state, a long history of amalgamation, assimilation, cultural exchange. It's everywhere.

So unless your argument is that culture doesn't exist at all anywhere, for anyone, then your rebuttal is meaningless faff.

-CryptoLutheran

Immigrants used to become American. The legal ones which became citizens. Spoke American, lived by it's freedom, and laws etc. Many of our traditions came from the various people who came here. That too was America.

ozso · Tuesday at 8:26 PM

Trogdor the Burninator said:
Because nothing says Christian like excluding Jesus from living in your neighbourhood.

2025 and Christians are supporting people who want whites-only suburbs. Jesus wept.

A. Who said they're Christians? B. it's a small isolated rural commune, not the suburbs. They want to get far away from the suburbs.

ozso · Tuesday at 8:31 PM

"Guess what? The neo-nazis want to go away and isolate themselves from society".

The left: "NOOOO! They can do that! That is so wrong!

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 10:16 PM

ozso said:
Yes, if you're not a friend of the world than you're an enemy of the world. There are Christians who are hated by the world, and there are Christians who are loved by the world. The ones who are loved by the world are the ones who go along with the world.

Jesus says: “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. (John 15:18-19).

The thing is that we know what "the world" refers to in this context. And it's not other human beings made in God's image, and it's not the planet Earth, or the material creation. All things God loves and commands that we love as well.

Worldliness is not "Well, atheists think it's a good idea to be a decent human being, therefore being a decent human being must be bad and worldly". Something isn't evil because non-Christians like it or do it; that isn't how right and wrong operate. That's a fundamentally broken, and--to be frank--worldly way of thinking.

Jesus isn't a sports team, and being a Christian isn't about wearing a jersey. And I don't know why so many Christians treat our religion this way. And I'm not sure why we should expect non-Christians to take us seriously if we can't even take Jesus seriously.

And I realize literally nothing I say to you matters. Because I'm just an evil "liberal" or "leftist", and while the rules of the forum forbid you from coming out and saying it, I'm sure you don't even think I'm a Christian. So it doesn't matter what Scripture I quote, it doesn't matter what the content of the words I use are--I'm wrong and evil because I'm the one saying it.

I used to be a "all liberal Christians are fake Christians" sort of person. I was there, I had the t-shirt, and I remember how comfortable and easy life was when I was surrounded by people who all agreed with me. When a non-Christian said something critical, well I could dismiss it as just something "the world" does, why bother taking non-Christians seriously when they are all evil and under the brainwashing of the devil right? And Christians who were on the other side of the political aisle than me? Well they were all "fake Christians" anyway, and so why bother taking them seriously either. I'm not saying that's exactly how it is for you, but that's where I used to be. That's how I used to be.

But then God smacked me upside the head.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 10:18 PM

ralliann said:
Immigrants used to become American. The legal ones which became citizens. Spoke American, lived by it's freedom, and laws etc. Many of our traditions came from the various people who came here. That too was America.

What do you mean used to become American? Immigrants who come here are American.

What does "speaking American" mean?

Yes, American culture is a diverse tapestry--that was kind of my point. But you're the one who said there's no such thing as American culture.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what "white culture" is.

-CryptoLutheran

ozso · Tuesday at 11:29 PM

ViaCrucis said:
The thing is that we know what "the world" refers to in this context. And it's not other human beings made in God's image, and it's not the planet Earth, or the material creation. All things God loves and commands that we love as well.

Worldliness is not "Well, atheists think it's a good idea to be a decent human being, therefore being a decent human being must be bad and worldly". Something isn't evil because non-Christians like it or do it; that isn't how right and wrong operate. That's a fundamentally broken, and--to be frank--worldly way of thinking.

Jesus isn't a sports team, and being a Christian isn't about wearing a jersey. And I don't know why so many Christians treat our religion this way. And I'm not sure why we should expect non-Christians to take us seriously if we can't even take Jesus seriously.

And I realize literally nothing I say to you matters. Because I'm just an evil "liberal" or "leftist", and while the rules of the forum forbid you from coming out and saying it, I'm sure you don't even think I'm a Christian. So it doesn't matter what Scripture I quote, it doesn't matter what the content of the words I use are--I'm wrong and evil because I'm the one saying it.

I used to be a "all liberal Christians are fake Christians" sort of person. I was there, I had the t-shirt, and I remember how comfortable and easy life was when I was surrounded by people who all agreed with me. When a non-Christian said something critical, well I could dismiss it as just something "the world" does, why bother taking non-Christians seriously when they are all evil and under the brainwashing of the devil right? And Christians who were on the other side of the political aisle than me? Well they were all "fake Christians" anyway, and so why bother taking them seriously either. I'm not saying that's exactly how it is for you, but that's where I used to be. That's how I used to be.

But then God smacked me upside the head.

-CryptoLutheran

The worldly are not interested in being decent human beings when it comes to God's standard of decency. If that's what the world wanted then Jesus wouldn't have said the world hates him and his disciples. But of course satan is clever and came up with a false Jesus that appeals to the world. That's the actual antichrist John warned us about.

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 11:44 PM

ozso said:
The worldly are not interested in being decent human beings when it comes to God's standard of decency. If that's what the world wanted then Jesus wouldn't have said the world hates him and his disciples. But of course satan is clever and came up with a false Jesus that appeals to the world. That's the actual antichrist John warned us about.

So when an atheist feeds the hungry, God actually hates it?

-CryptoLutheran

ozso · Wednesday at 12:14 AM

ViaCrucis said:
So when an atheist feeds the hungry, God actually hates it?

-CryptoLutheran

No, but what's your point? That since there are atheists/worldly/ungodly who are humanitarians, Christians should subscribe to the worldly version of Jesus and the worldly version of Christianity?

Our righteous acts are like filthy rags Isaiah 64:6

ViaCrucis · Wednesday at 12:58 AM

ozso said:
No, but what's your point? That since there are atheists/worldly/ungodly who are humanitarians, Christians should subscribe to the worldly version of Jesus and the worldly version of Christianity?

That it's good when Christians and non-Christians recognize common ground, because as Christians we are commanded to exist here in this world and live good lives in our communities. We build bridges, not throw rocks. And that what Scripture talks about when it speaks of the hostility of the world is the power structures of systemic evil which oppress, injure, and promote death, decay, injustice, and the things God very explicitly says He despises--because we serve and worship a God who genuinely cares about His creation. He genuinely wants to see human beings thrive.

The point of Christianity is not get people to sign on a dotted line so that they don't go to hell, and this world doesn't actually matter at all. The point of Christianity is that there is a God who is covenantly faithful to His good creation, and in spite of the hell we've created here and in spite of the hell that exists because of the devil, because of the evil that exists--He actually cares and wants the poor to be cared for, the hungry to be fed, for widows and orphans taken care of, and that the kingdom is both this-worldly and next-worldly.

Jesus didn't teach us to pray, "Your kingdom come later, Your will be done in heaven as it is in heaven" but "Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

That the preaching of the Gospel is not "Hey, join my religion so you can go to heaven after you die" but literally EVERYTHING the Gospel is actually about as written throughout the pages of Sacred Scripture. We cannot divorce eternal life from this life; we cannot divorce the Christian hope of the Age to Come from the kind of life we are called to live right now. If there is going to be a Day of Judgment, if God is going to make all things new, and Jesus rising from the dead is the evidence of this fact, then hey--I should live like these things are true. And that means people matter, that means my community matters, that means what happens to the immigrant, to the poor, to the hungry, to the thirsty, to the people who are neglected, unwanted, and tossed aside--they matter. Because if God's Kingdom is about the last being first, and the least being greatest, if God declares that it is the slave who stands at the top of the pyramid, then that matters.

ozso said:
Our righteous acts are like filthy rags Isaiah 64:6

Then take that seriously. God wasn't impressed by the sacrifice of bulls and goats while the heart remained distant, hard, and callous to the needy. What makes you think God is going to be impressed by declarations of godliness, all the while looking upon the dispondant, the depressed, the anxious, the unwanted, the unloved, and the broken and saying "meh, I follow Jesus, I got my ticket to heaven".

-CryptoLutheran

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