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The Hispanic Vote

FireDragon76

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Unbelievably, 48% of Hispanic voters supported Trump in the 2024 election.

Months later, only 35% approve of him. While I am sorry that this dawning of awareness did not happen earlier, I understand it completely.

Whether the Hispanic voter is an immigrant, a first-generation American, or possibly a second-generation American, I am sure that they realize exactly what life conditions they were fleeing, or how desperate they were.

Very few "waited in line." Most were grandfathered in under Reagan's amnesty. They themselves (or their parents) did exactly what many undocumented immigrants do today, and they were not punished.

And what about the Cubans? They know what it was like to be a refugee fleeing communism. I wonder what they think about Trump's lies about the Haitian refugees--"they're eating the dogs!" I wonder what they think about refugee status being cancelled--when the refugees have no home to return to?

I can empathize because my grandparents fled poverty in Ireland...but that was in the early 20th century. How must these immigrants (or first-generation) or refugees must feel--with the hunger, fear, and uncertainty embedded in their vestigial memories? They understand what a president born with a platinum spoon in his mouth doesn't. They know the truth. And that knowledge should forever disaqualify the people with ICE on their shirts and their leaders with ICE in their veins.

It's important to remember intergenerational dynamics and the diversity of Latinos themselves. Also, many are not immigrants. There is also a strong desire among many younger Latinos to assimilate into wider US culture, and this plays out in terms of personal economic and political decisions.
 
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FireDragon76

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Aside from Stephen Miller, the true immigration policy of this administration remains unclear.

What is even more concerning is that, even among those with a clear vision regarding whom to deport, there appears to be no policy addressing what should happen afterward. Furthermore, in this forum, individuals who advocate for total deportation often avoid answering these questions and simply reiterate their stance by insisting on mass deportation.

Not sure if I am allowed to re-post a message, but here is what I posted in this tread in post #79.

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I have consistently stated that I do not support President Trump’s immigration policy. However, I accept the outcome of the election, as it is evident that a significant portion of Americans elected him largely due to his stance on immigration. Recognizing this mandate, I support President Trump in implementing these policies, despite my personal reservations.

Understanding President Trump’s Immigration Policy and Its Impact

During his campaign, President Trump committed to deporting individuals who entered or remained in the United States without legal authorization. Supporters at the GOP convention demonstrated backing for this approach with signs advocating “mass deportation.”

Current Policy Assessment

Is mass deportation an official policy of the Trump administration? Advisors such as Stephen Miller, along with other proponents of stringent immigration enforcement, support the removal of all undocumented immigrants.

President Trump’s own statements have varied; he has, at times, indicated that only those convicted of serious crimes should face deportation, while at other moments he has called for broader actions, including mass deportations, though he occasionally refers to hardworking undocumented immigrants in positive terms.

Major donors to the administration also express differing views—while generally supporting strict immigration measures, some advocate for exceptions in sectors such as agriculture, restaurants, and meat processing.

There are diverse perspectives among supporters of the administration's immigration strategy. Some endorse the deportation of all individuals present without legal status, whereas others believe enforcement should focus on those involved in drug trafficking, human trafficking, or other serious offenses.

Practical Considerations

Presently, only approximately 0.59% of undocumented immigrants have been apprehended. At this pace, fewer than 6% are projected to be deported by the end of President Trump's term. It remains unclear whether the administration aims to remove only 5% to 7% of the undocumented population.

Economic Implications

Over four million undocumented immigrants are employed in the U.S. food industry, spanning roles in agriculture, meat processing, grocery stores, and restaurants. An additional one million work in construction. To date, there appears to be no comprehensive policy outlining how these positions would be filled, or how supply demands would be maintained, should these workers be removed.

While the Secretary of Agriculture has suggested technological solutions could replace agricultural labor, current advancements are limited to certain crops such as peanuts and corn; artificial intelligence technology capable of harvesting delicate produce like tomatoes or peaches is not expected for at least 15 years.

Thus, questions remain regarding potential plans or policies to substitute approximately ten million undocumented workers with American citizens. The removal of an estimated fifteen million individuals from the workforce would significantly impact both local and national economies. It is unclear what support mechanisms, if any, are planned for local economies dependent on immigrant labor, or how the national economy would adjust following such deportations.

Conclusion

Currently, there is no clear immigration policy. Even top officials cannot agree on who should be deported, how to define criminals, or the number of people to be deported in four years. Questions remain about who would replace these workers and the economic impact of removing 15 million people. The situation is chaotic: some advocate deporting all unauthorized residents, others only violent criminals, while critics call it a political show with no substantive solutions.

So far, it mostly looks like cruel theater.

I live in Orlando, which has real challenges due to immigration into the area, but I don't see the local or national politics having realistic or humane solutions. Nobody is talking about the elephant in the room, which is that neoliberalism requires immigration to justify itself. And in sunbelt states in particular, the ideology of funding economy growth with sprawling, unrestrained growth has alot of traction with politicians. Sprawling growth needs landscapers, roofers, janitors, maids, etc. and they have to come from somewhere.

Nothing will change unless we update the 8 USC 1158: Asylum law.


"Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien's status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title."

Anyone who crosses into the US illegally and requests asylum at the border has a legal right to remain in the country until a court decides on their application.

A major reason for the large number of undocumented immigrants in the USA is that court decisions take 10-12 years. By then, asylum seekers have already integrated into society and often choose to remain hidden rather than return.

The asylum law should be revised to require that individuals seeking asylum in the United States apply at the nearest U.S. embassy they reside. Exceptions may be made for those located in active war zones or who are facing immediate physical harm.

Most simply come into the US on legal work visas and then overstay them. Here in Orlando there's all kinds of industries that appeal for foreign worker visas and get them. This has nothing to do with "bleeding heart liberals" or "open borders", and everything to do with structural incentives and laws designed to prioritize wealthy business interests and individuals, and sprawling, unrestrained growth over broader questions of justice, equity, and human flourishing.
 
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mark46

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Aside from Stephen Miller, the true immigration policy of this administration remains unclear.

What is even more concerning is that, even among those with a clear vision regarding whom to deport, there appears to be no policy addressing what should happen afterward. Furthermore, in this forum, individuals who advocate for total deportation often avoid answering these questions and simply reiterate their stance by insisting on mass deportation.

Not sure if I am allowed to re-post a message, but here is what I posted in this tread in post #79.

-----------
I have consistently stated that I do not support President Trump’s immigration policy. However, I accept the outcome of the election, as it is evident that a significant portion of Americans elected him largely due to his stance on immigration. Recognizing this mandate, I support President Trump in implementing these policies, despite my personal reservations.

Understanding President Trump’s Immigration Policy and Its Impact

During his campaign, President Trump committed to deporting individuals who entered or remained in the United States without legal authorization. Supporters at the GOP convention demonstrated backing for this approach with signs advocating “mass deportation.”

Current Policy Assessment

Is mass deportation an official policy of the Trump administration? Advisors such as Stephen Miller, along with other proponents of stringent immigration enforcement, support the removal of all undocumented immigrants.

President Trump’s own statements have varied; he has, at times, indicated that only those convicted of serious crimes should face deportation, while at other moments he has called for broader actions, including mass deportations, though he occasionally refers to hardworking undocumented immigrants in positive terms.

Major donors to the administration also express differing views—while generally supporting strict immigration measures, some advocate for exceptions in sectors such as agriculture, restaurants, and meat processing.

There are diverse perspectives among supporters of the administration's immigration strategy. Some endorse the deportation of all individuals present without legal status, whereas others believe enforcement should focus on those involved in drug trafficking, human trafficking, or other serious offenses.

Practical Considerations

Presently, only approximately 0.59% of undocumented immigrants have been apprehended. At this pace, fewer than 6% are projected to be deported by the end of President Trump's term. It remains unclear whether the administration aims to remove only 5% to 7% of the undocumented population.

Economic Implications

Over four million undocumented immigrants are employed in the U.S. food industry, spanning roles in agriculture, meat processing, grocery stores, and restaurants. An additional one million work in construction. To date, there appears to be no comprehensive policy outlining how these positions would be filled, or how supply demands would be maintained, should these workers be removed.

While the Secretary of Agriculture has suggested technological solutions could replace agricultural labor, current advancements are limited to certain crops such as peanuts and corn; artificial intelligence technology capable of harvesting delicate produce like tomatoes or peaches is not expected for at least 15 years.

Thus, questions remain regarding potential plans or policies to substitute approximately ten million undocumented workers with American citizens. The removal of an estimated fifteen million individuals from the workforce would significantly impact both local and national economies. It is unclear what support mechanisms, if any, are planned for local economies dependent on immigrant labor, or how the national economy would adjust following such deportations.

Conclusion

Currently, there is no clear immigration policy. Even top officials cannot agree on who should be deported, how to define criminals, or the number of people to be deported in four years. Questions remain about who would replace these workers and the economic impact of removing 15 million people. The situation is chaotic: some advocate deporting all unauthorized residents, others only violent criminals, while critics call it a political show with no substantive solutions.
What did voters expect from Trump with regard to immigration? I submit that the majority expected the following. The MAGA base wanted much more.
STOP THE BLEEDING
1) Secure the border and bring illegal crossings to a very small number.
2) Have a mass deportation of the millions that Biden allowed in under his policies.
3) Have a mass deportation of those under deportation orders.
4) Have a mass deportation of those illegally in the country who have been convicted of violent crimes.
5) Get off the street those who are awaiting court proceedings.
6) Increase ICE resources and deportation centers for those in the process of awaiting court proceedings.
7) Appoint or transfer lots more judges to hear cases on an accelerated basis.
8) Pressure Mexico with regard to illegals, drugs and trafficking.
==========
THEN THE VAST MAJORITY
agrees that the system is broken, we need legal status for millions and a better system going forward.
 
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mark46

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LET"S BE CLEAR
For now, the numbers deported are very small, much smaller every month than under Obama. The deportation to 3rd countries has been for show, to establish legal precedents, and to delay until more funds were approved by Congress.
=======
OPTIONS WHEN ICE FINDS ILLEGALS
1) give them a court date 5 years in the future and let them go (the Biden approach)
2) give a court date and have them report regularly and wear an ankle bracelet (pre-Trump 1)
3) put them in detention centers until their status and future is settled (getting them off the street)
4) deport as many as possible as soon as possible, ignoring illegal processes

I believe the majority of voters supports detention centers.
===========
ONCE WE STOP THE BLEEDING
Congress is well able to develop immigration laws that are sensible, although a significant number of voters will oppose whatever plan becomes law.
 
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NxNW

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What did voters expect from Trump with regard to immigration. I submit that the majority expected the following. The MAGA base wanted much more.
STOP THE BLEEDING
1) Secure the border and bring illegal crossings to a very small number.
The border was already safe after Trump built the wall.
2) Have a mass deportation of the millions that Biden allowed in under his policies.
Biden didn't allow anyone in, because they couldn't get over Trump's wall.
5) Get off the street those who are awaiting court proceedings.
Who says they're on the street?
6) Increase ICE resources and deportation centers for those in the process of awaiting court proceedings.
Why?
8) Pressure Mexico with regard to illegals, drugs and trafficking.
Obama did this, but the GOP opposed it.
==========
THEN THE VAST MAJORITY
agrees that the system is broken, we need legal status for millions and a better system going forward.
Biden tried to improve things, but the GOP voted it down.
 
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Fantine

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LET"S BE CLEAR
Despite fear-inducing spectacle, the Trump administration has deported far fewer people per month than the Obama administration did. Immigration has become a political weakness for President Trump as optics take precedence over effective deportation policy. Fareed says the best solution remains comprehensive immigration reform. If Trump won’t embrace that, Democrats should — and thereby reclaim the sensible center on the issue, Fareed argues.
I'm not a regular watcher of this show but saw part of it on Sunday. Zakaria talked about the "chaos" and "drama" that characterizes Trump's deportation vendetta, and also noted that Obama and Biden's deportation numbers were greater (and less heartless, less prone to erroneous pickups, and obviously less costly, since they weren't sending 4,000 soldiers into states that didn't want them, etc.)

I am opposed to Trump's theatrics, especially the deportation of people with temporary protected status--whose home countries are still experiencing violence and who are being sent to holding areas in Sudan? El Salvador? Some other tropical gulag? That is as inhumane as the Palestinian genocide.

I am still uncertain about what Biden did that was so bad. There were thousands of immigrants held in Mexico during the pandemic. They flooded the border. Because Congress did not provide enough funding for additional immigration courts, people applying for asylum were given court dates and sent to relatives or others responsible for them. I know this is what happened (not the theatrical lies of the Trump administration) because I know nuns who volunteered at transitional border homes, and they worked solely with asylum seekers.

He also tried to initiate a process where people could apply for asylum in their home countries--not sure why that never went through.

It seems as if the Trump policies are primarily being undertaken to convince would-be immigrants--university students, refugees, etc.--that living in the United States would be so miserable and repressive that no one would want to come here.

Unfortunately, he is also making America so miserable and repressive that many good people don't want to stay here.
 
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mark46

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I am opposed to Trump's theatrics, especially the deportation of people with temporary protected status.
I strongly agree. This is an issue that is being ignored.

The most impacted groups are Afghans and Iraqis who worked with and for the US during the recent Middle East wars. I know folks working to find places for them to go after their status is revoked.
 
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mark46

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I am still uncertain about what Biden did that was so bad. .
What you seem to be saying is that Biden TRIED to be human and to solve the border crisis.

I agree.

HOWEVER, his approach was an utter failure. Millions came through. Many, many went to places throughout the country to places where ICE is having difficulty finding them. Criminal gangs were taking advantage of the policies in order to traffic people and drugs into the US, and guns into Mexico.

When Biden finally realized his error, he backed a compromise bill that had the goal of a small increase in ICE funds and a few steps to secure the border. Yes, the bill should have been improved. Trump said NO, and that it wasn't necessary. Trump said the flow could quickly be slowed by executive action. Biden started to act and to decrease the flow. Trump has continued and the numbers are tiny. The bill was NOT needed. The current law has a much better chance of doing what the country once: stop the bleeding, stop the CRISIS of millions gathering throughout South and Central America in order to enter the US illegally or in order to seek asylum at the border after turning themselves in.
 
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mark46

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It seems as if the Trump policies are primarily being undertaken to convince would-be immigrants--university students, refugees, etc.--that living in the United States would be so miserable and repressive that no one would want to come here.
I suggest that we don't conflate the attack on the universities with the immigration issue. Obviously, Trump wants the elite very far left schools to be much weaker and for them to attract fewer foreign students. His attack on research and science could not be more damaging and reprehensible.
=========
BTW, if we removed all limits on the immigration of tech workers and researchers, we would have tens of thousands of more such workers each month, especially to take tech jobs not now being filled and those that will be created in the next decade. Trump may stop the flow of some, but many others want to come, especially from Asia.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Whether the Hispanic voter is an immigrant, a first-generation American, or possibly a second-generation American, I am sure that they realize exactly what life conditions they were fleeing, or how desperate they were.
Are you a Hispanic? Only Hispanics can speak authoritatively about what they consider rights to be.
 
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ralliann

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what I am saying is just because someone supported Trump deporting the "bad" people that does not mean they support him trying to deport the "regular" illegals or his methods for doing so.
Trump won the Hispanic vote. He ran on deportation. He is doing that.
 
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