Does the Bible command Christians to support the State of Israel?

XrxrX · 2025-07-14T13:27:50-0500

Exactly. That is why it's inappropriate to cite Gen 12:3 as any mandate to "bless" anyone, other than Abraham.

XrxrX · 2025-07-14T13:29:47-0500

Guojing said:
That verse says given to A nation.

Gentiles in the church are from all nations, not a single nation.

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY NATION..." 1 Pet 2:9

XrxrX · 2025-07-14T13:36:54-0500

Jerry N. said:
What evidence is there that this is not still true?

As Clare stated, he's been gone for some time.

Philip_B · 2025-07-14T18:42:27-0500

XrxrX said:
God told Abraham He would bless those who blessed, and curse those who cursed... Abraham.

My problem with the children of Abraham argument is that Abraham had children by three women: Hagar, Sarah, and Keturah.

And I also acknowledge the rather more general argument from Paul, that as children of faith, we too (Gentile Christians) are children of Abraham.

XrxrX · 2025-07-14T18:49:27-0500

Philip_B said:
My problem with the children of Abraham argument is that Abraham had children by three women: Hagar, Sarah, and Keturah.

And I also acknowledge the rather more general argument from Paul, that as children of faith, we too (Gentile Christians) are children of Abraham.

Point being, to use Gen 12:3 as a mandate to "bless the modern State of Israel" is completely fallacious. It verbatim says God will bless those who bless Abraham, the man... himself. At that point not even the ancient nation of Israel, much less any so-called modern iteration. And where the blessing/curse is handed down through lineage, it becomes attached to the stipulation of obedience, and we know how that turned out.

Philip_B · 2025-07-14T20:06:19-0500

XrxrX said:
Point being, to use Gen 12:3 as a mandate to "bless the modern State of Israel" is completely fallacious. It verbatim says God will bless those who bless Abraham, the man... himself. At that point not even the ancient nation of Israel, much less any so-called modern iteration. And where the blessing/curse is handed down through lineage, it becomes attached to the stipulation of obedience, and we know how that turned out.

I was probably thinking more closely of Genesis 17:1-8.

When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said to him, ‘I am God Almighty; walk before me, and be blameless. And I will make my covenant between me and you, and will make you exceedingly numerous.’ Then Abram fell on his face; and God said to him, ‘As for me, this is my covenant with you: You shall be the ancestor of a multitude of nations. No longer shall your name be Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you the ancestor of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. I will establish my covenant between me and you, and your offspring after you throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your offspring after you. And I will give to you, and to your offspring after you, the land where you are now an alien, all the land of Canaan, for a perpetual holding; and I will be their God.’

ViaCrucis · 2025-07-14T21:11:40-0500

Clare73 said:
Abraham's been gone for some time.

And the Seed of Abraham is Christ, and all who are in Christ are Abraham's children.

So relevance to the modern state of Israel = none.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · 2025-07-14T21:14:17-0500

Guojing said:
During the Great Tribulation, supporting Israel will be a requirement for unbelieving gentiles to enter the kingdom (Matthew 25:31-46)

That's odd, because in my Bible Matthew 25:31-46 is about how we treat the least of these, and how we will be judged based on how we behave toward the most vulnerable people in our midst.

-CryptoLutheran

Guojing · 2025-07-14T21:22:24-0500

ViaCrucis said:
That's odd, because in my Bible Matthew 25:31-46 is about how we treat the least of these, and how we will be judged based on how we behave toward the most vulnerable people in our midst.

-CryptoLutheran

Read the context of the ch 24 before that, its about the terrible Tribulation that will befall the nation of Israel.

Once you realized that,

in scripture, nations in plural always refers to gentile nations, while Israel is considered nation in the singular, and that
Jewish people in that nation always address one another as brethren,

then you will know that the judgement of the sheep and the goats Matthew 25:31-46 is not about the time today.

Guojing · 2025-07-14T21:24:50-0500

XrxrX said:
"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY NATION..." 1 Pet 2:9

You mean every time you read ye in scripture, you regard it as addressed to you?

Peter was not addressing the uncircumcised in that letter. He still considered us gentiles as dogs (Acts 10)

XrxrX · 2025-07-14T21:40:08-0500

Guojing said:
You mean every time you read ye in scripture, you regard it as addressed to you?

Peter was not addressing the uncircumcised in that letter. He still considered us gentiles as dogs (Acts 10)

"Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations—for the whole earth is Mine. / And unto Me you shall be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ (Exodus 19:5-6) Did they obey? No... so, "they" Could Not Possibly be the Holy Nation Peter is addressing. Not saying "You were.." But saying "YOU ARE..." "Jesus Christ ..has MADE US to be a Kingdom, Priests to His God and Father.." (Rev 1:6) and I could go on. There were not as of then, nor have since been, nor will ever be another people who are the Chosen of God, the Children of God, a peculiar people, a royal priesthood or Holy Nation other than the Church.

ViaCrucis · 2025-07-14T21:51:45-0500

Guojing said:
Read the context of the ch 24 before that, its about the terrible Tribulation that will befall the nation of Israel.

Once you realized that,

in scripture, nations in plural always refers to gentile nations, while Israel is considered nation in the singular, and that

Jewish people in that nation always address one another as brethren,

then you will know that the judgement of the sheep and the goats Matthew 25:31-46 is not about the time today.

Oh I'm familiar with Matthew 24. It has nothing to do with some future tribulation that is going to happen to the modern state of Israel. It's about the destruction of Jerusalem, and Christ's future return in judgment. Hence, for example, why Jesus talks about the Day of Judgment in Matthew 25.

-CryptoLutheran

Guojing · 2025-07-15T00:54:42-0500

ViaCrucis said:
Oh I'm familiar with Matthew 24. It has nothing to do with some future tribulation that is going to happen to the modern state of Israel. It's about the destruction of Jerusalem, and Christ's future return in judgment. Hence, for example, why Jesus talks about the Day of Judgment in Matthew 25.

-CryptoLutheran

Oh you are Preterist. Then naturally, our interpretation of Matthew 24 and 25 would differ.

But Matthew 25:31-46 says those who do not help Jesus's brethren will be thrown into the lake of fire, I assume you don't teach that when you teach Matthew 25:31-46 is for today? Why not?

Guojing · 2025-07-15T00:57:19-0500

XrxrX said:
"Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations—for the whole earth is Mine. / And unto Me you shall be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ (Exodus 19:5-6) Did they obey? No... so, "they" Could Not Possibly be the Holy Nation Peter is addressing. Not saying "You were.." But saying "YOU ARE..." "Jesus Christ ..has MADE US to be a Kingdom, Priests to His God and Father.." (Rev 1:6) and I could go on. There were not as of then, nor have since been, nor will ever be another people who are the Chosen of God, the Children of God, a peculiar people, a royal priesthood or Holy Nation other than the Church.

In scripture, nations in plural always refers to gentile nations, while Israel is considered nation in the singular.

Now if you reject that, then yes I can understand why you would think the Body of Christ has replaced Israel.

XrxrX · 2025-07-15T01:16:03-0500

Guojing said:
In scripture, nations in plural always refers to gentile nations, while Israel is considered nation in the singular.

Now if you reject that, then yes I can understand why you would think the Body of Christ has replaced Israel.

A persistent misnomer. There was never any "replacement", only the Faithful.. real Israel who continued on as Israel. They were never "replaced", they became Multiplied. "The nations" is "ethnicities", and in Christ there is no "Jew or Greek", but one Holy Nation.

Guojing · 2025-07-15T01:49:06-0500

XrxrX said:
A persistent misnomer. There was never any "replacement", only the Faithful.. real Israel who continued on as Israel. They were never "replaced", they became Multiplied. "The nations" is "ethnicities", and in Christ there is no "Jew or Greek", but one Holy Nation.

You can call it fulfillment instead of replacement theology if you want, but the meaning is the same.

Tom8907 · 2025-07-15T01:58:09-0500

No. Israel is the church, not the nation state.

XrxrX · 2025-07-15T02:08:59-0500

Guojing said:
You can call it fulfillment instead of replacement theology if you want, but the meaning is the same.

I don't need to call it either, I can call it what it is.. The Church. It's 2+2=4, not "5". The Jews who believed on Christ WERE the Church, they didn't start a "new religion" which is the slander leveled by those that call Christians "idolaters". So, if they didn't start a new religion.. then who and what were they? Who were the unbelievers that did Not follow the Prophet unto like Moses that they were COMMANDED to? Did they remain "the Israel of God" when they abandoned their own religion? You know well they did not. "IF... you obey My Word.. you will be..". They did not, and so.. are not.

Guojing · 2025-07-15T04:51:41-0500

XrxrX said:
I don't need to call it either, I can call it what it is.. The Church. It's 2+2=4, not "5". The Jews who believed on Christ WERE the Church, they didn't start a "new religion" which is the slander leveled by those that call Christians "idolaters". So, if they didn't start a new religion.. then who and what were they? Who were the unbelievers that did Not follow the Prophet unto like Moses that they were COMMANDED to? Did they remain "the Israel of God" when they abandoned their own religion? You know well they did not. "IF... you obey My Word.. you will be..". They did not, and so.. are not.

I notice you kept saying "church" when I mentioned the Body of Christ.

Are they equivalent terms to you?

Jerry N. · 2025-07-15T08:25:39-0500

Replacement theology does not agree with the following and many other scriptures:

“For he finds fault with them when he says: ‘Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.'” – Hebrews 8:8

Jews and Christians who have put their faith in Christ are brothers and sisters, but the house of Israel are still God’s chosen people. He will defend Israel in the last days just as He has done in the last 72 years. Can you not see God’s hand in the 6-day war? Can you not see how God has protected Israel and blessed it? The Israelites were a rotten bunch, but God never forsake them. The 144,000 in Revelation are Jews. Israel is not what it should be, but it almost never has been. However, God chose them and has a plan for them.

Does the Bible command Christians to support the State of Israel?

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