No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Brightfame52 · Friday at 5:50 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
If you really interpreted scripture with scripture then you would know that John 12:32 means literally "all people" just like it says. Why wouldn't Jesus draw all people to Himself when you consider that God graciously offers salvation to all people (Titus 2:11), that God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), that God wants all people to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-6) and that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world (John 3:16, 1 John 2:1-2)? Why would you think that Jesus would not draw the people to Himself that He died to give the opportunity of eternal life, which is all people in the whole world? Some who are drawn to Him then decide not to take the next step by repenting of their sins and putting their faith in Him like the Jews Stephen rebuked who were resisting the Holy Spirit (Acts 7:51).

His sheep are the ones who willingly choose to accept what He did for everyone. But, He made it so that all people would have the opportunity to be among His sheep. That's what you don't get.

He even died for the false teachers and prophets that Peter wrote about in the following verse, but they denied Him. He paid the price for their sins, but they were not willing to accept what He did for them. Obviously, those who reject Him and His sacrifice won't be His sheep and won't have their sins forgiven by His blood, but that doesn't mean He didn't die to give them that opportunity.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

He is speaking of His Sheep, that's who He is lifted up for. Isn't He the Good Shepherd still from Jn 10 ? And He draws all them to Himself

d taylor · Friday at 6:13 PM

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How Does Satan Work? – Grace Evangelical Society

A question I have is this: why would Satan be so active in preventing God’s drawing if people are born totally unable to believe?
The evidence doesn’t fit the Calvinist doctrine of total inability. I wonder why Calvinists seem so blind to that inconsistency? Oh, right.

David Lamb · 2025-07-12T02:47:24-0500

d taylor said:
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How Does Satan Work? – Grace Evangelical Society

A question I have is this: why would Satan be so active in preventing God’s drawing if people are born totally unable to believe?
The evidence doesn’t fit the Calvinist doctrine of total inability. I wonder why Calvinists seem so blind to that inconsistency? Oh, right.

Satan fights a lot of losing battles. He tried getting Job to curse God. He tried tempting the Saviour to sin. Similarly, he will try to stop those drawn by the Father, Christ's sheep, believing.

d taylor · 2025-07-12T06:38:57-0500

David Lamb said:
Satan fights a lot of losing battles. He tried getting Job to curse God. He tried tempting the Saviour to sin. Similarly, he will try to stop those drawn by the Father, Christ's sheep, believing.

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So where is it stated in The Bible that satan only works against Christ sheep.

Why does satan need to blind an unbeliever, as Calvinist say they are dead to began with.

A New Dawn · 2025-07-12T07:32:22-0500

d taylor said:
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So where is it stated in The Bible that satan only works against Christ sheep.

Why does satan need to blind an unbeliever, as Calvinist say they are dead to began with.

Because Christ’s sheep carry out Christ’s work. Christ is the winner of the war, except satan doesn’t seem to know or accept it. Besides, who else is he going to do battle with?

David Lamb · 2025-07-12T07:46:48-0500

d taylor said:
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So where is it stated in The Bible that satan only works against Christ sheep.

Why does satan need to blind an unbeliever, as Calvinist say they are dead to began with.

We were all dead to begin with, dead in trespasses and sins. Satan, in spite of what Jesus says about all that the Father gives Him will come to Him, will try and stop people believing in the Saviour.

Brightfame52 · 2025-07-12T08:29:29-0500

David Lamb said:
We were all dead to begin with, dead in trespasses and sins. Satan, in spite of what Jesus says about all that the Father gives Him will come to Him, will try and stop people believing in the Saviour.

Which he cannot do because Jesus for His Sheep has destroyed the works of the devil 1 Jn 3 8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So if one Christ died for, dies in their sins and unbelief, the devil was victorious over Jesus, because the devil prevents from believing and being saved Lk 8 12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

d taylor · 2025-07-12T17:40:55-0500

David Lamb said:
We were all dead to begin with, dead in trespasses and sins. Satan, in spite of what Jesus says about all that the Father gives Him will come to Him, will try and stop people believing in the Saviour.

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No you made a specific statement where is that stated in The Bible.
Similarly, he will try to stop those drawn by the Father, Christ's sheep, believing.

Now according to Calvinism only born again people can believe. So where is it seen satan trying to stop born again people (Christ sheep) in believing in Jesus.

It is not in the parable of the soils.

A New Dawn · 2025-07-12T17:50:45-0500

d taylor said:
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No you made a specific statement where is that stated in The Bible.
Similarly, he will try to stop those drawn by the Father, Christ's sheep, believing.

Now according to Calvinism only born again people can believe. So where is it seen satan trying to stop born again people in believing in Jesus.

It is not in the parable of the soils.

I don’t think Satan is a Calvinist to believe in Calvinist beliefs so he is going to try to stop all people from becoming Christians.

Brightfame52 · 2025-07-13T06:10:37-0500

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 2

zoidar · 2025-07-13T06:30:29-0500

Brightfame52 said:
According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 2

What you have to ask is why it is given unto a person. Here is the answer:

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
— John 6:45

Brightfame52 · 2025-07-13T07:41:25-0500

zoidar said:
What you have to ask is why it is given unto a person. Here is the answer:

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
— John 6:45

This is what Im asking,

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

zoidar · 2025-07-13T08:01:39-0500

Brightfame52 said:
This is what Im asking,

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

No, you are asking why someone comes to Jesus, not why it's given to someone to come to Jesus.

The reason they come to Jesus is because they have listened and learned from the Father.

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
— John 6:45

David Lamb · 2025-07-13T10:29:37-0500

Brightfame52 said:
Which he cannot do because Jesus for His Sheep has destroyed the works of the devil 1 Jn 3 8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So if one Christ died for, dies in their sins and unbelief, the devil was victorious over Jesus, because the devil prevents from believing and being saved Lk 8 12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Yes, I agree.

Brightfame52 · 2025-07-13T13:35:58-0500

zoidar said:
No, you are asking why someone comes to Jesus, not why it's given to someone to come to Jesus.

The reason they come to Jesus is because they have listened and learned from the Father.

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
— John 6:45

This is what Im asking,

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

zoidar · 2025-07-13T13:47:49-0500

Brightfame52 said:
This is what Im asking,

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father

And John 6:65 is not answering that. If we learn from the Father or not by our own free will so we can come to Jesus is another question. The Bible doesn't say.

Brightfame52 · 2025-07-13T15:00:14-0500

zoidar said:
And John 6:65 is not answering that. If we learn from the Father or not by our own free will so we can come to Jesus is another question. The Bible doesn't say.

I have nothing else for u then, good day

No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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