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Faith without woks explained

fli

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Read Genesis 22:2 -12. Isaac was a young man. Some estimate Isaac's age to be in his late teens. Let's read about Abraham being declared to be righteous.

Read Genesis 15:2 -6. Abraham had no children when he was declared righteous. Abraham was declared righteous then at least 13 years later Issac was born. At that time Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac were circumcised. That was at least 10 years prior to him and Isaac going to Mt Moriah. That would mean Abraham had been declared righteous at least 23 years prior to when he took Issac to Mt Moriah for sacrifice. Hebrews 12:5-8 The question is had Abraham proved that he was a son of God, let God discipline him, before he took Issac to Mt Moriah. If he had then, he was righteous prior to offering to sacrifice Issac.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. NKJV

James states that “scripture was fulfilled” which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. God declared Abraham righteous as stated above at least 23 years prior to the sacrifice.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. NKJV

The righteous requirement of the law of sin and death are fulfilled by those declared righteous by God who walk in the Spirit. God fulfills the law of sin and death so those who believe in Jesus can be sanctified by obeying Jesus' commands. God does this so the people who come for salvation can attain the level of perfection they are willing to work for.

When a person first comes in, they could enter heaven at that time as they are sinless and have been born from above. This does happen occasionally when the person who comes in doesn't have the faith to face withdrawal from sin, and they let Jesus put them to death physically rather than keep sinning. Jesus' love is unconditional. His love does not depend on how you conduct yourself.

Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. NKJV

God fulfills the law for Christians for those who walk in the Spirit. He does this during the sanctification process for His sons. Abraham had proved he was a child of God sometime earlier during the 23 years. Yet, he continued to walk in the Spirit. If Abraham had decided to not walk in the Spirit at some point, as verse 13 states, be would have died physically and went to heaven. In heaven his faith had accomplished its goal and would be dead. Hence, the saying faith without works is dead.

James 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? NKJV

By continuing in the Spirit Abraham reached the level of perfection he was willing to work for.

To answer the question can faith without works save a person? Yes. As stated above there are people who do not have enough faith to withdraw from sin. Read 1Corinthians 11: 27-32 verse 32 those who were disciplined to death were not condemned with the world. Had they repented and quit drinking they would have continued in the sanctification process.

2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him,


He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV


Those who do not have faith enough to face withdrawing from sin but still let Jesus put them to death had no works. Their faith was without works yet it still got them to heaven.

The point James is making is that the only way we can see if a person has faith is to see some works from them. It's not a good indication, but it's all we have.
 

Maria Billingsley

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Read Genesis 22:2 -12. Isaac was a young man. Some estimate Isaac's age to be in his late teens. Let's read about Abraham being declared to be righteous.

Read Genesis 15:2 -6. Abraham had no children when he was declared righteous. Abraham was declared righteous then at least 13 years later Issac was born. At that time Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac were circumcised. That was at least 10 years prior to him and Isaac going to Mt Moriah. That would mean Abraham had been declared righteous at least 23 years prior to when he took Issac to Mt Moriah for sacrifice. Hebrews 12:5-8 The question is had Abraham proved that he was a son of God, let God discipline him, before he took Issac to Mt Moriah. If he had then, he was righteous prior to offering to sacrifice Issac.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. NKJV

James states that “scripture was fulfilled” which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. God declared Abraham righteous as stated above at least 23 years prior to the sacrifice.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. NKJV

The righteous requirement of the law of sin and death are fulfilled by those declared righteous by God who walk in the Spirit. God fulfills the law of sin and death so those who believe in Jesus can be sanctified by obeying Jesus' commands. God does this so the people who come for salvation can attain the level of perfection they are willing to work for.

When a person first comes in, they could enter heaven at that time as they are sinless and have been born from above. This does happen occasionally when the person who comes in doesn't have the faith to face withdrawal from sin, and they let Jesus put them to death physically rather than keep sinning. Jesus' love is unconditional. His love does not depend on how you conduct yourself.

Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. NKJV

God fulfills the law for Christians for those who walk in the Spirit. He does this during the sanctification process for His sons. Abraham had proved he was a child of God sometime earlier during the 23 years. Yet, he continued to walk in the Spirit. If Abraham had decided to not walk in the Spirit at some point, as verse 13 states, be would have died physically and went to heaven. In heaven his faith had accomplished its goal and would be dead. Hence, the saying faith without works is dead.

James 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? NKJV

By continuing in the Spirit Abraham reached the level of perfection he was willing to work for.

To answer the question can faith without works save a person? Yes. As stated above there are people who do not have enough faith to withdraw from sin. Read 1Corinthians 11: 27-32 verse 32 those who were disciplined to death were not condemned with the world. Had they repented and quit drinking they would have continued in the sanctification process.

2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him,


He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV


Those who do not have faith enough to face withdrawing from sin but still let Jesus put them to death had no works. Their faith was without works yet it still got them to heaven.

The point James is making is that the only way we can see if a person has faith is to see some works from them. It's not a good indication, but it's all we have.
I always go back to this simple verse that tells one all they need to know.

James 2:18:
"But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
 
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fli

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I always go back to this simple verse that tells one all they need to know.

James 2:18:
"But someone will say, 'You have faith, and I have works.' Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
That's exactly what James is saying. Thank you.
 
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Fervent

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I have never seen "Faith without works" to back the faith up.
But have you ever seen works without faith?

The whole question is absurd, because it's not whether or not we have faith but what we place our faith in.

Faith is not a stand-alone concept, it must be placed in something and whatever our faith is placed in will be reflected in how we conduct ourselves.
 
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armchairscholar

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Read Genesis 22:2 -12. Isaac was a young man. Some estimate Isaac's age to be in his late teens. Let's read about Abraham being declared to be righteous.

Read Genesis 15:2 -6. Abraham had no children when he was declared righteous. Abraham was declared righteous then at least 13 years later Issac was born. At that time Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac were circumcised. That was at least 10 years prior to him and Isaac going to Mt Moriah. That would mean Abraham had been declared righteous at least 23 years prior to when he took Issac to Mt Moriah for sacrifice. Hebrews 12:5-8 The question is had Abraham proved that he was a son of God, let God discipline him, before he took Issac to Mt Moriah. If he had then, he was righteous prior to offering to sacrifice Issac.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. NKJV

James states that “scripture was fulfilled” which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. God declared Abraham righteous as stated above at least 23 years prior to the sacrifice.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. NKJV

The righteous requirement of the law of sin and death are fulfilled by those declared righteous by God who walk in the Spirit. God fulfills the law of sin and death so those who believe in Jesus can be sanctified by obeying Jesus' commands. God does this so the people who come for salvation can attain the level of perfection they are willing to work for.

When a person first comes in, they could enter heaven at that time as they are sinless and have been born from above. This does happen occasionally when the person who comes in doesn't have the faith to face withdrawal from sin, and they let Jesus put them to death physically rather than keep sinning. Jesus' love is unconditional. His love does not depend on how you conduct yourself.

Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. NKJV

God fulfills the law for Christians for those who walk in the Spirit. He does this during the sanctification process for His sons. Abraham had proved he was a child of God sometime earlier during the 23 years. Yet, he continued to walk in the Spirit. If Abraham had decided to not walk in the Spirit at some point, as verse 13 states, he would have died physically and went to heaven. In heaven his faith had accomplished its goal and would be dead. Hence, the saying faith without works is dead.

James 2:22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? NKJV

By continuing in the Spirit Abraham reached the level of perfection he was willing to work for.

To answer the question can faith without works save a person? Yes. As stated above there are people who do not have enough faith to withdraw from sin. Read 1Corinthians 11: 27-32 verse 32 those who were disciplined to death were not condemned with the world. Had they repented and quit drinking they would have continued in the sanctification process.

2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV

Those who do not have faith enough to face withdrawing from sin but still let Jesus put them to death had no works. Their faith was without works yet it still got them to heaven.

The point James is making is that the only way we can see if a person has faith is to see some works from them. It's not a good indication, but it's all we have.


Really appreciate the thought you’ve put into this, diving deep into Abraham’s story and the connection between faith and works. Your breakdown of the timeline and scriptures is super helpful for understanding how Abraham’s faith grew over time. I love how you highlighted that faith and works go hand in hand, like two sides of the same coin, to show a heart fully surrendered to God.

I’d add that Abraham’s journey shows us something beautiful about God’s patience. Even when our faith feels shaky, God stays faithful, just like you pointed out in 2 Timothy. It’s comforting to know that salvation isn’t about earning God’s love but about trusting Him enough to let Him shape us. The sanctification process you mentioned feels like God gently chiseling away at our rough edges, helping us reflect His love more each day.

Your point about faith without works being “dead” resonates deeply. It’s like a seed that never grows into a tree—it’s still a seed, but it’s not fulfilling its purpose. Works don’t save us, but they’re the fruit of a living faith, showing the world what God’s doing in our hearts. Thanks for sparking this discussion—it’s a great reminder to keep walking in the Spirit and letting God’s love shine through our actions!
 
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fli

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Really appreciate the thought you’ve put into this, diving deep into Abraham’s story and the connection between faith and works. Your breakdown of the timeline and scriptures is super helpful for understanding how Abraham’s faith grew over time. I love how you highlighted that faith and works go hand in hand, like two sides of the same coin, to show a heart fully surrendered to God.

I’d add that Abraham’s journey shows us something beautiful about God’s patience. Even when our faith feels shaky, God stays faithful, just like you pointed out in 2 Timothy. It’s comforting to know that salvation isn’t about earning God’s love but about trusting Him enough to let Him shape us. The sanctification process you mentioned feels like God gently chiseling away at our rough edges, helping us reflect His love more each day.

Your point about faith without works being “dead” resonates deeply. It’s like a seed that never grows into a tree—it’s still a seed, but it’s not fulfilling its purpose. Works don’t save us, but they’re the fruit of a living faith, showing the world what God’s doing in our hearts. Thanks for sparking this discussion—it’s a great reminder to keep walking in the Spirit and letting God’s love shine through our actions!
Thank you. The more that I know about the salvation process the more I understand what God has done for us. Jesus did it all and all we need do is trust and obey. God bless
 
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Strong in Him

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fli

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Looking at the title, I wondered if this thread would be about Chinese cookery. :)

I'm sorry that I misled you with the title.

Way back in the 1990s when I came in/back I would hear “If all it takes to be saved is to believe in Jesus then the demons would be saved.” I even remember that I heard a pastor say it from the pulpit. The second chapter of James was cited to support the doctrine.

Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. NKJV

People who believe the angels could be saved don't know very much about God's plan of salvation.

Beyond that others say that James proves that if a person doesn't have works it means they are not saved. If a person must have works in order to be saved, then it is a works-based salvation.
 
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David Lamb

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I'm sorry that I misled you with the title.

Way back in the 1990s when I came in/back I would hear “If all it takes to be saved is to believe in Jesus then the demons would be saved.” I even remember that I heard a pastor say it from the pulpit. The second chapter of James was cited to support the doctrine.

Hebrews 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted. NKJV

People who believe the angels could be saved don't know very much about God's plan of salvation.

Beyond that others say that James proves that if a person doesn't have works it means they are not saved. If a person must have works in order to be saved, then it is a works-based salvation.
Thanks, but you didn't really mislead me. Your typo just made be chuckle.
 
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d taylor

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What Type of Salvation Is James Talking About? – Grace Evangelical Society

The bottom line is this: salvation in James refers to the deliverance of born again people from God’s wrath. James is not talking about what we do to be born again except for a brief reference in James 1:18. Regardless of one’s theological persuasion, anyone who reads James with eyes to see will discern that James is talking about blessings and curses in this life. The only way to miss that is to be blinded by one’s tradition. Compare John 5:39-40.
 
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Dan Perez

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That's exactly what James is saying. Thank you.
And James 1:1 says it is written to the 12 Tribes which are scattered abroad , greeting , means , not written to
the Body of Christ >
dan p
 
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