What is your opinion? - The intended readership of Hebrews.

Rose_bud · Saturday at 12:12 AM

Fervent said:
I 've read The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware and Encountering the Mystery by Bartholomew I. Though most of my connection with non-western perspectives is from surveys like Light from the Christian East by James R. Payton Jr. and Scripture in Tradition by John Breck. I tend to prefer reading ancient works rather than modern ones when it comes to theology...one of which got me in trouble with God.

...now I'm just super curious... :sorry:

Fervent · Saturday at 12:14 AM

Rose_bud said:
...now I'm just super curious...

It was The Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus...which God confronted me about my pursuit of trying to figure out how He thinks and ended up putting me in the mental hospital.

Rose_bud · Saturday at 12:34 AM

Fervent said:
It was The Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus...which God confronted me about my pursuit of trying to figure out how He thinks and ended up putting me in the mental hospital.

I've not been in a mental hospital, but I can surely say I have been tempted to know the how, the why etc. A good read and eye opener was the "The sin of certainty" by Peter Enns.

Fervent · Saturday at 12:44 AM

Rose_bud said:
I've not been in a mental hospital,

I've made several trips, all at least partially related to theological issues.

Rose_bud said:
but I can surely say I have been tempted to know the how, the why etc

A common temptation.

Rose_bud said:
. A good read and eye opener was the "The sin of certainty" by Peter Enns.

I'll have to add that to my to read list.

Rose_bud · Saturday at 1:02 AM

Fervent said:
I've made several trips, all at least partially related to theological issues.

A common temptation.

I'll have to add that to my to read list.

It would be interesting to hear the process and what you learnt along the way, people understand that there is some convergence between mental health and theology, but I think lived experiences can shed so much light. Because it may not be what we think, my sister was diagnosed with bi-polar and had a few visits, now imagine what it was like for her with our Pentecostal background :sigh:

...

Fervent · Saturday at 1:04 AM

Rose_bud said:
It would be interesting to hear the process and what you learnt along the way, people understand that there is some convergence between mental health and theology, but I think lived experiences can shed so much light. Because it may not be what we think, my sister was diagnosed with bi-polar and had a few visits, now imagine what it was like for her with our Pentecostal background...

If you're really interested, I could PM you.

And I can only imagine, as my background is about the polar opposite of Pentecostalism...cold, austere, doctrinal, Baptist.

Rose_bud · Saturday at 1:08 AM

Fervent said:
If you're really interested, I could PM you.

And I can only imagine, as my background is about the polar opposite of Pentecostalism...cold, austere, doctrinal, Baptist.

Yes please. I spent some time in Baptist circles as well, it brought some balance.

Fervent · Saturday at 1:11 AM

Rose_bud said:
Yes please

It seems you have your profile limited, so you'll have to white list me in order for me to PM you

FireDragon76 · Saturday at 2:25 AM

Fervent said:
Yes, and perhaps my primary challenge is that if I want to escape a lot of the things central to my own perspective I need to seek out alternatives, so I perceive the hegemony of academic theology more of a threat to my objectivity than someone who is naturally an outsider.

Diversity of approaches are probably a decent way to combat a lot of what I am talking about.

I 've read The Orthodox Way by Kallistos Ware and Encountering the Mystery by Bartholomew I. Though most of my connection with non-western perspectives is from surveys like Light from the Christian East by James R. Payton Jr. and Scripture in Tradition by John Breck. I tend to prefer reading ancient works rather than modern ones when it comes to theology...one of which got me in trouble with God.

Rowan Williams is also excellent to read, if you like patristic theology and eastern spirituality, but want somebody more conversant in western critical scholarship and culture. He's a very profound, integrative Christian theologian and scholar, in that way.

Xeno.of.athens · Saturday at 4:20 PM

Xeno.of.athens said:
What is your opinion?

Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

God, having spoken long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days spoke to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds, who is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power; who, having accomplished cleansing for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:1-4 LSB

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

I was thinking that "us" was wider than Jewish Christians.

AbbaLove · Saturday at 5:48 PM

Fervent said:
It was The Exact Exposition of the Orthodox Faith by John of Damascus...which God confronted me about my pursuit of trying to figure out how *He thinks and ended up putting me in the mental hospital.

*only when born again as a new [Spiritual] creation with renewed mind in Christ

Like with more than a few was it your trust in Greek orthodoxy and perhaps that of John of Damascus who believed graven images/icons (e.g. Mary, Jesus) were aok in the grounding of one's Faith whether Greek Orthodoxy or Roman Catholicism?

Until one grasps the distinction between Jewish religious "trust" in their "Law" as used in the OT/OC and that of a "born again Faith" as used in the NT/NC for both Jew and gentile ... then one's belief is more or less denominational theology (religiousity), e.g. Pharisees, Sadducees, Greek Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, and some form of Protestantism.

Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

"Without Faith it is impossible to please God."

9 To another Faith ...

11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

12 For just as the body is one and yet has many parts, and all the parts of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

ViaCrucis · Saturday at 8:07 PM

Xeno.of.athens said:
What is your opinion?

Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

God, having spoken long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days spoke to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds, who is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power; who, having accomplished cleansing for sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:1-4 LSB

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

I think the most immediate and right-in-our-face answer is Jewish Christians. A more nuances answer is that it probably is addressed to Jewish Christians who are dealing with persecution for being Christians (Rome, generally, at least before 70 AD, tolerated Judaism; but when Christianity began to be viewed as distinct from Judaism, Rome did not have that same tolerance). The author seems very concerned with trying to encourage his readers to remain faithful to Jesus, to remind them that what they have in Christ is greater than what they had before; there is a Great High Priest, greater than the high priest in Jerusalem; and the author warns his readers about the danger of giving up their Christian hope, that they will forfeit their salvation if they do so. So underlaying the epistle seems to be certain Jewish Christians who may be considering abandoning Christianity and returning to Judaism.

-CryptoLutheran

AbbaLove · Saturday at 9:51 PM

Xeno.of.athens said:
Hebrews is written to whom? And does its intended readership shape the way you will interpret its words?

God spoke to US in His Son ... Is that phrase sufficient to identify the intended readership? Who is "us"?

The Son only spoke what His Father told Him (John 12:49)

Being "we/us" generally agree that "Hebrews" was penned by Paul, under the inspiration of His(God's) Holy Spirit then shouldn't "we/us" also believe this verse penned by Paul under the inspiration of the same Holy Spirit ...

13 For by one Spirit we (being "us") were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5)

It only gets complicated when man's religious denominational theology takes precedent over that of God's Holy Spirit. Theology is expressed by man's academic prowess. Thus one reason for acquiring a doctorate degree in theology so as to better grasp/interpret the Holy Bible

It can get confusing (mental illness) when man's faith in a religious denominational theology takes precedent over that of the counsel and teaching of God's Holy Spirit.

XrxrX · Monday at 2:59 PM

The huge mistake so many make with the Epistles, and esp. with Paul's are shoehorning them to a narrower audience than intended. There are passages that state a specific audience, but like almost all sermons.. they also include wider applications for those with "ears to hear". Just like a pastor will open with "brothers and sisters", knowing that not all in the congregation are actually believers. Refusing to acknowledge any and all possibility of nuance in the Epistles has led to some of the most egregious theology and doctrine in the history of the Church. That said, Hebrews is clearly leveled mainly at Hebrews, and many claim only at believers... but if you can't see the Epistle is largely evangelistic, you aren't really seeing.

What is your opinion? - The intended readership of Hebrews.

Great is thy faithfulness, O God my Father...

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Great is thy faithfulness, O God my Father...

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Great is thy faithfulness, O God my Father...

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Great is thy faithfulness, O God my Father...

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Circumcism Of The Heart

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