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Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

ralliann

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They came out of the bondage of Egypt. God's people were captives in Egypt. He spoke His covenant after they were delivered.
The twelve son's of Israel, the twelve patriarchs were not in bondage, nor captives in Egypt.

Exodus 1: 5 And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already. {loins: Heb. thigh }
6 And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.
7 And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them.
8 ¶ Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

I'm not sure your point here or how it disputes anything I have said.
The twelve patriarchs were not slaves, nor oppressed.
No I said this already.
Distinction between gen 12, gen17 Two covenants...
Ge 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

This was also said before God codifying the Ten Commandments and them agreeing on what God said Exo 19:8.

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”
Ex 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

The covenant of circumcision was the sign on what separated His people from everyone else.
A sign of the firstborn
The Ten Commandments is the covenant they agreed on to be part of God's people - I will be their God, they will be My people. Its always been on the condition of obeying God.
God promised to be their God in the covenant of circumcision.....to Abraham


The Levites was not the entire nation of Israel. They were the tribe that was loyal to God, when all the others worshipped the golden cow, why God made them priests.
The tribe which inherited the priesthood.... an inheritance to the firstborn...

The firstborn is an heir set apart among the heirs.

Were the twelve tribes called Gods firstborn again?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I said: God's people were captives in Egypt.

You followed up with
The twelve son's of Israel, the twelve patriarchs were not in bondage, nor captives in Egypt.
I never said the twelve patriarchs.

You do know that the nation of Israel (God's people) came from the twelve patriarchs, right?


The twelve patriarchs were not slaves, nor oppressed.
Their ancestors were
Distinction between gen 12, gen17 Two covenants...
Ge 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.


Ex 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
God never made a covenant with Pharaoh and I am not talking about individual covenants.
A sign of the firstborn
Gen 17:9 And God said to Abraham: “As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.
God promised to be their God in the covenant of circumcision.....to Abraham
Before God codified the Ten Commandments said this

Exo 20: 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.”

With the New Covenant with God's laws written from stone to written on the heart 2 Cor 3:3 Heb 8:10

Heb 8: 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

The tribe which inherited the priesthood.... an inheritance to the firstborn...
Levi was given the priesthood because they were the only ones faithful to God when the others sinned and broke God's covenant right after they agreed to keep it.

I think I am going to leave it as agree to disagree, as I don't think we are following only to what we are speaking about. Thanks for the chat though.
 
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ralliann

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Their ancestors were.

Their ancestors were
Right, at that time the firstborn right?
The redeemption of the firstborn spared their house yes? The passover a promise in the Abrahamic covenant of circumcision YES? The feast a memorial of the fulfillment of the promise made to their fathers yes? The covenant wherein he promised to be made their God YES?
I do not think you are following along to what we are discussing
No I don't think you are. My point here is I think you are putting to many promises into a covenant the law that do not belong there. A better inheritance to the law, that does not belong there.
Gen 17:9 And God said to Abraham: “As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised; 11 and you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you.
1 chron 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law , and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

Ex 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.
42 It is a night to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations. {a night … : Heb. a night of observations }
43 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance ( of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
44 But every man’s servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. {keep … : Heb. do it }
48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.


With the New Covenant with God's laws written from stone to written on the heart

Heb 8: 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Hebrews is about priesthood, an inheritance. From the beginning on through the book

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger(ange l) of the LORD of hosts.

Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Levi was given the priesthood because they were the only ones faithful to God when the others sinned and broke God's covenant right after they agreed to keep it.
Right and they inherited the priesthood..
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Right, at that time the firstborn right?
The redeemption of the firstborn spared their house yes? The passover a promise in the Abrahamic covenant of circumcision YES? The feast a memorial of the fulfillment of the promise made to their fathers yes? The covenant wherein he promised to be made their God YES?

No I don't think you are. My point here is I think you are putting to many promises into a covenant the law that do not belong there. A better inheritance to the law, that does not belong there.

1 chron 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;
16 Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac;
17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law , and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

Ex 12:40 Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
41 And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.
42 It is a night to be much observed unto the LORD for bringing them out from the land of Egypt: this is that night of the LORD to be observed of all the children of Israel in their generations. {a night … : Heb. a night of observations }
43 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance ( of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:
44 But every man’s servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it. {keep … : Heb. do it }
48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.



Hebrews is about priesthood, an inheritance. From the beginning on through the book

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Mal 2:7 For the priest’s lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger(ange l) of the LORD of hosts.

Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.


Right and they inherited the priesthood..
We are getting way off topic to what you originally asked and what were were originally discussing .https://www.christianforums.com/threads/jesus-claimed-he-came-to-fulfill-the-law-did-he.8225129/post-78193448

Its not really productive so I am going to bow out for now.
 
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ralliann

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We are speaking another language. Most of what you are quoting is nothing at all what I have been referring to or what you asked me about.https://www.christianforums.com/threads/jesus-claimed-he-came-to-fulfill-the-law-did-he.8225129/post-78193448

You keep making arguments I am not making or talking about something completely different. Its not really productive so I am going to bow out for now.
I am talking about before the covenant at sinai. Did not moses say Israel was his firstborn?
Which is law as well.
21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I am talking about before the covenant at sinai. Did not moses say Israel was his firstborn?
Which is law as well.
21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Yes, never an argument I was making.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You talk about the law of Moses.
There's a lot that covers in the law of Moses. The argument you were making was not one I ever made.

The Ten Commandments btw according to the Testimony of God is not the law of Moses. Its God's own separate covenant that consists of the Ten Commandments Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and it is God's covenant Deut 4:13- God's commandments Exo 20:6- God's work Exo 32:16- God's Testimony Exo 31:18, not Moses. While Moses was a very important person in the OT, he was not God.
 
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Studyman

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the above doesn't seem to be even close to commenting on my statement. Where are you coming from?

The point being, Jesus, Paul and the First Church of God under His New High Priest walked in God's Laws. They didn't judge them and then deem whichever Laws they don't believe are Holy, as unworthy of their respect, like the Pharisees and the religions of this world have always done.


That is strictly your opinion, and your opinion is wrong.

No Bob. It is a popular religious philosophy of this world, that you have adopted, which preaches that Paul is telling the Ephesians that it was God's Commandments and Ordinances that relegated Faithful Gentile as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

What I am posting is what the bible actually says.

I posted God's Laws concerning Faithful Gentiles.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and "thou shalt love him" as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

I also posted the Spirit of Christ's Words spoken through Isaiah.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Gentile) that "join themselves" to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, "every one" that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 "Even them" will "I bring" to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

I posted these Words and more to show you how God (Christ) Himself, through His Commandments and Ordinances, relegates Faithful Gentiles.

But the spirit in you won't allow you to even acknowledge them, choosing instead to promote your adopted lies about God, that HE is a respecter of persons who judge men according to the DNA they were born with. It was an insidious lie when the Pharisees promoted this opinion, and it is still an insidious lie when you promote this opinion.

I am pointing God's word out, in case you are simply deceived or misled by the "Many" who profess to know God in the world God placed us in, just as Jesus and Paul used the Holy Scriptures to expose the deception promoted by the mainstream preachers of the world God placed them in. But if you are here on a mission to promote the opinions of this world's religious system, like the Pharisees were, you won't listen to God, just as they didn't listen to God.

Where do you get these beliefs?

I have posted my source, and have asked you and Clare, a few times to show me in the Holy Scriptures where God relegated a faithful Gentile, through His Commandments and Ordinances, as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

But the Holy Scriptures doesn't teach what you are promoting, therefore, you can't support your opinion with Scriptures.

You should be thankful someone is taking time out of their busy day to show you this truth. I'm sure there were many Jews in Paul's Time that were grateful when Jesus exposed the "Commandments of men" the rulers of the Temple in the City of David taught for doctrines.

Jesus could only change or remove laws that He made.

Again, you are just trying to justify yourself now. How were people to know that the Pharisees taught for doctrines the commandments of men? Did they have the Oracles of God in their own homes? Jesus spent His entire Life exposing the man-made religious philosophy and Traditions taught by the rulers of the Temple that professed to know God?

To believe you and "many" who come in Christ's Name, I would have to believe Jesus spent His Life exposing God His Father, as an unjust God, a liar, a God who is a respecter of persons who judge men according to the DNA they were born with.

You are promoting an insidious lie Bob, in that you preach to anyone who will listen to you, that Paul is teaching the Ephesians that God rejected Faithful Non-Jews, and relegated them though His commandments and Ordinances as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

Not only is this not taught anywhere in Scriptures, but it is an evil and wicked Judgment of God Himself, who became a man in the person of Jesus. You should be ashamed, but you are not.
Pharisees were free agents, not robots.

Another insidious falsehood. The Pharisees "Professed to know God", and claimed the mantle of God's Priests in the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron" AKA, the Levitical Priesthood. They had exclusive possession of the Oracles of God. Here is what the Christ said about them.

Mal. 2: 4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name.

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and "they should seek the law at his mouth": for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted "the covenant of Levi", saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Who else was a man supposed to go to? And where would the Gentile go given the rejected God's Laws concerning the Faithful Stranger?

I will finish on another post as this is important stuff.
 
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Studyman

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They could make or break laws just as we can today. Since the Pharisees were free to make their own laws, Jesus could not have taken them away.

That not what the Christ "of the Bible" told me.

Matt. 23: 1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, 2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees "sit in Moses' seat": 3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and "lay them on men's shoulders"; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

So you are promoting another falsehood, that the Priests of the Levitical Priesthood were "free to make their own laws". And that once they created "their own Commandments", Jesus "COULD NOT" take them away.

Can you not see how foolish you have become, working so hard to preserve and defend a false teaching that God's commandments releagted Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".


How on Earth did you come up with the idea that Eph 2 account meant Jesus destroyed man's commandments????.

Let's reign you in there a little Bob. The "Commandments and Ordinances" that were exposed and destroyed in Eph. 2, were Commandments that relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

I posted for you God's Commandments concerning the Faithful Gentile. I showed you who Paul said made the judgment against the Faithful Gentile.

But your adopted religious philosophy is more important to you, than what God's Word actually says.

And this is nothing new, as the Pharisees behaved in the same exact manner as you are. They TOO rejected God's Commandments and chose to adopt instead, the religious philosophies of their fathers, who persecuted the Church of God and relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

The Biblical Truth is, God's Commandments and ordinances NEVER relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". But the Commandments of Men the Pharisees taught for doctrines did.

This is not my opinion, but is what's written in your own Bible, if you would only believe it.

While on Earth, He only pointed out how wrong they were. Jesus is not a dictator. Only once time did Jesus display how He detested the money tables at the Temple and overturned them, but He couldn't stop them from setting them back.

Yes, God is not a dictator and men are free to promote lies about Him, like the insidious lie that God's Commandments and Ordinances relegated Faithful men who "yielded themselves" to God, as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world", because they weren't born with a certain DNA.

I can't stop you from promoting this wickedness, but I can advocate that men turn away from your commandments, and turn to God's Commandments instead. When they do, they will find that it wasn't God's Commandments at all, that caused the Pharisees to persecute the Church of God that were Non-Jews who "Yielded themselves" to Him.

Jesus said you would not be persuaded of these things. But I'm hoping someone else reading along might consider what is actually written concerning Faithful Gentiles in the Bible, because I know there are some who hear Moses and the Prophets.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
 
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Studyman

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Wow, this is quite an indictment..
Is it possible to take these things one at a time?

It's hard not to get distracted by the word games and misdirection practiced by "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

But I like the "1 thing at a time" practice.

In Ephesians 2, Paul is rebuking the Circumcision "made with hands", who called Faithful Gentiles "The uncircumcision" and mentioned Commandments and Ordinances that relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world", that Jesus exposed and destroyed on the Cross.

I posted God's/Christ's Commandments concerning Faithful Gentiles.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou "shalt love him as thyself"; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

And I also posted the Word spoken by the Spirit of Christ on Isaiah;

6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Non-Jew) that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer "for all people".

So clearly God isn't the "circumcision made with hands", and clearly GOD's commandments, as you can see if you read them, didn't relegate Faithful Non-Jews as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

But in this world's religious system, there are "many" who "come in Christ's Name", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that teach it was God's Commandments and ordinances that relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

Truly this is one of the Deceptions Jesus warned about in Matt. 24:4-5 promoted by the "Many" who come in Christ's Name, claiming HE is truly the Christ.

It is important to expose these deceptions so others do not become snared by them.
 
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Bob S

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Question, are you telling me that those verses are saying that Jesus takes away the ability for man to make laws?
So you are promoting another falsehood, that the Priests of the Levitical Priesthood were "free to make their own laws". And that once they created "their own Commandments", Jesus "COULD NOT" take them away.
That is correct. God made man free to eat of the tree, deny truth, and make laws that are not kosher. We are not robots. We are made to know good and evil. If you notice, God never stopped the Pharisees from making laws. Jesus did not set aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations that were made by the Pharisees. That is a ridiculous belief. Again, God allows us to do things that displease Him, but He doesn't stop us from doing wrong. This FACT upsets your apple cart.
Can you not see how foolish you have become, working so hard to preserve and defend a false teaching that God's commandments releagted Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".
You just cannot be nice, can you? Accuse me all you want Studyman, I have broad shoulders and your accusations roll off like water off a duck's back. I made a perfectly good case for what Jesus did. It perfectly coincides with what Jesus said in Matt 5:16-17. Jesus brought to an end the prophecies concerning His coming, brought to an end the laws of the Old Covenant, and furthermore, Paul wrote in 2 Cor 3:11 that the Ten Commandments were done away. KJV. Gal 3:19 tells us that the Law ended with the coming of Jesus. Col 2 tells us no one is to judge us because we don't keep Old Covenant laws. The bottom line is that your belief system is the one that is teaching heresy.
Let's reign you in there a little Bob. The "Commandments and Ordinances" that were exposed and destroyed in Eph. 2, were Commandments that relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".
That is something you made up to support your false claims that somehow we are under the dictates of the Old Covenant.
I posted for you God's Commandments concerning the Faithful Gentile. I showed you who Paul said made the judgment against the Faithful Gentile.
Your thoughts, not true scripture.
But your adopted religious philosophy is more important to you, than what God's Word actually says.
I take God's word verbatim, I don't try to interpret scripture to meet any preconceived notions.
And this is nothing new, as the Pharisees behaved in the same exact manner as you are. They TOO rejected God's Commandments and chose to adopt instead, the religious philosophies of their fathers, who persecuted the Church of God and relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".
You just cannot write civilly, can you? I have concluded that I cannot help you see the real truth. Too bad.
 
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ralliann

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It's hard not to get distracted by the word games and misdirection practiced by "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord.

But I like the "1 thing at a time" practice.

In Ephesians 2, Paul is rebuking the Circumcision "made with hands", who called Faithful Gentiles "The uncircumcision" and mentioned Commandments and Ordinances that relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world", that Jesus exposed and destroyed on the Cross.
Similar to this?

Mt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Lu 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Eph 2: speaks of Jew and gentiles both in times past children of wrath...John's baptism preached to jew's the way of escape. Repentance...

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Mt 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Gentiles (ye, the uncircumcision)

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Jews (we)

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

God's love and mercy in his promises to Abraham...
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) {by … : or, by whose grace }
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Deut 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Covenant circumcision a covenant of love and mercy to them........

10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

Jesus fulfilled this for them........they died in Christ, and were raised up with him
12 ¶ Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) {by … : or, by whose grace }
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Gentiles were not party to the promises of the covenant of Circumcision.....
11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

You however seem to be making this about the Sinai covenant??
I see it by the Abrahamic covenant...Both covenats are a covenant of circumcision

De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Ephesians goes on to speak of jew and gentiles with regard to priesthood. Which under Moses law non levites were "strangers" from.

Ex 30:33 Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger <02114>, shall even be cut off from his people.
Le 22:10 There shall no stranger <02114> eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.
Le 22:12 If the priest’s daughter also be married unto a stranger <02114>, she may not eat of an offering of the holy things. {a stranger: Heb. a man a stranger }
Le 22:13 But if the priest’s daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father’s house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father’s meat: but there shall no stranger <02114> eat thereof.

Nu 3:10 And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest’s office: and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
Nu 3:38 But those that encamp before the tabernacle toward the east, even before the tabernacle of the congregation eastward, shall be Moses, and Aaron and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Israel; and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Both Jew and Gentiles

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: {thereby: or, in himself }
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;


I posted God's/Christ's Commandments concerning Faithful Gentiles.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou "shalt love him as thyself"; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

And I also posted the Word spoken by the Spirit of Christ on Isaiah;

6 Also the sons of the stranger, (Non-Jew) that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer "for all people".

So clearly God isn't the "circumcision made with hands", and clearly GOD's commandments, as you can see if you read them, didn't relegate Faithful Non-Jews as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

But in this world's religious system, there are "many" who "come in Christ's Name", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that teach it was God's Commandments and ordinances that relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

Truly this is one of the Deceptions Jesus warned about in Matt. 24:4-5 promoted by the "Many" who come in Christ's Name, claiming HE is truly the Christ.

It is important to expose these deceptions so others do not become snared by them.
 
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Studyman

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Question, are you telling me that those verses are saying that Jesus takes away the ability for man to make laws?

I'm posting what the bible says. The Levite Priests were supposed to give people God's Laws, not laws after the imagination of their own hearts. Hebrews 8 speaks to this as the reason for the New Priesthood in the first place, "for finding fault with them". As I showed you in Malachi, it was the corrupt priests that led men astray.

They Professed to know God, promoting that God sent them to teach about Him, but are actually liars and children of the devil.

This world's wicked religious system that you have adopted and are now promoting to others, preach that God's Commandments relegated Faithful Non-Jews as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". This teaching, though popular, is an insidious lie promoted by the spirit which is on the children of disobedience, the Pharisees, in Paul's Time. And you are preaching the same lies about God all these years later, by the same spirit.

For me, Jesus exposed this insidious lie that you work so hard to preserve and promote, and I wanted to share what is actually written, for others who might also see the glaring hypocrisy and wickedness in such a teaching. That they might repent and be renewed in the spirit of their mind.

That is correct. God made man free to eat of the tree, deny truth, and make laws that are not kosher. We are not robots. We are made to know good and evil. If you notice, God never stopped the Pharisees from making laws.

This is true. God never stopped the devil from promoting lies about God to Eve. God didn't stop the Sodomites from teaching lies about God in Abraham's time. God didn't stop many in Israel from creating images of God and creating their own high days in worship of their image, although He destroyed thousands for doing so. God didn't stop the Pharisees from preaching Lies about God. He didn't stop them from murdering His Son for no reason. He didn't stop Saul and the Pharisees from stoning Stephen to death. And you are here preaching lies about God, that His commandments relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". And HE doesn't take time out of His busy day to come down and "MAKE" you believe what HE has already written for you admonition and told you to Believe.

This is so true. There are devils and other voices and deceivers in the world God placed Eve in, Abraham in, David in, Paul in and me in.

And these other voices profess to know God, they even quote "Some" of God's Inspired words to promote their lies about God. They even Come in Christ's Name, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. But Jesus said to "Take heed" of them, so that we don't also become doers or promoters of these Lies about God.

So yes Bob, you are free to live your life as you please, you can promote all the Lies about God that you want, even the Lie that God's Commandments relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

But I'm not going to join you in your mission to convince others of these lies because that is a Sin.


Jesus did not set aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations that were made by the Pharisees. That is a ridiculous belief.

And yet, Paul tells you flat out who was making these Judgments against Faithful Gentiles and it wasn't him or God. And I posted God's Own Commandment where HE tells you how Faithful Gentiles are to be treated. And I posted HIS words again through Isaiah, where HE again confirms His Judgment of Non-Jews who "Yield themselves" unto Him.

And you reject them all as unworthy of even the slightest respect or belief. And you are free to do so.

I only post these things so that others reading along might consider what is actually written and will not to join with you and the Pharisees in Judging God as a respecter of person, whose Words cannot be trusted, who judge men according to the DNA they were born with, whose commandments relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".


Again, God allows us to do things that displease Him, but He doesn't stop us from doing wrong. This FACT upsets your apple cart.

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

You think that you and others can purposely promote lies about God and be forgiven, simply because you teach the Lies in Christ's Name??

That's not the Gospel of Christ. At least not the Christ "of the bible".

You just cannot be nice, can you? Accuse me all you want Studyman, I have broad shoulders and your accusations roll off like water off a duck's back. I made a perfectly good case for what Jesus did.

So did the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time.

Nevertheless, neither they nor you can provide any evidence that God's Commandments relegated Faithful Non-Jews as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

But I can post the Very Words of the Christ as the Holy One of Israel, that exposes this Lie you are working so hard to preserve and promote.

Shall I not warn others of this deception you are promoting, even though you are free to promote it?

It perfectly coincides with what Jesus said in Matt 5:16-17.

Matt. 5: 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


How are these Word's of the Christ promoting the insidious Lie about God, that HIS Commandments relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" "glorify God?

Where is it written in God's Commandments that I am to relegate a faithful non-Jew as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"?

You are really making a fool of yourself here Bob. Why do you work so hard to preserve and promote such an evil and false Judgment against the Holy One of Israel?

Jesus brought to an end the prophecies concerning His coming, brought to an end the laws of the Old Covenant, and furthermore,

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: "I am not come to destroy", but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till "heaven and earth pass", one jot or one tittle "shall in no wise pass from the law", till all be fulfilled.

Jesus has not returned and cast all the "Doers of Iniquity" into the Lake of Fire, as the Law and Prophets, and HE Himself prophesied. If HE doesn't return, then my Faith, Abraham's faith, Paul's Faith is in vain. So clearly "ALL" has not yet been fulfilled, and the same earth, and sky that Jesus walked on and under, and the exact same earth and stars that I walk on and under, are still here.

Jesus confirms this in the verse you omitted.

19 Whosoever therefore "shall break one of these least commandments", and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever "shall do and teach them", the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For "I say" unto you, That except "your righteousness" shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall "in no case enter" into the kingdom of heaven.

So how do these verses prove that God's Commandments relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"?

These Word of the Christ "of the Bible" expose your adopted religious philosophy and from below, not above

Paul wrote in 2 Cor 3:11 that the Ten Commandments were done away. KJV.

There is not one place in all of Paul's Letters where HE teaches that God's Commandments relegate Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

Not one place, and you have not, and cannot provide even ONE Commandment of God which teaches this.


Gal 3:19 tells us that the Law ended with the coming of Jesus. Col 2 tells us no one is to judge us because we don't keep Old Covenant laws. The bottom line is that your belief system is the one that is teaching heresy.

They also called the teaching of Jesus, which you reject, a heresy too, and they accused Paul of Heresy for believing all that is written, as I do.

Acts 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

So it is no surprise that you believe much of what is written, that I have posted and you have rejected, is Heresy as well.

Your new covenant, and God's New covenant are two completely different gospels.

God's New covenant.

Jer. 31: 33 But "this shall be the covenant" that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, "I will put my law in their inward parts", and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will (No more Levite Priest) forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Bob's new covenant.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will transform myself into an apostle of Christ; and destroy God's Laws and persuade men to create their own image of God, their own high days in worship of this image, their own judgments and, and I will persuade them that God's Laws relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world", and will be my own God.


That is something you made up to support your false claims that somehow we are under the dictates of the Old Covenant.

One Lie at a time Bob. It is you who promote the insidious and evil lie that God's commandments in any covenant relegated Faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".

That is the false claim you made, not me. You made this up, Paul doesn't teach it, and Jesus doesn't teach it. You will no doubt continue on your mission to deceive others into believing God's Commandments relegated Faithful Non-Jews as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world".
Your thoughts, not true scripture.

What I posted, and you completely ignored, not even acknowledging that they exist, was "True Scripture". While you are free to lie all you want. It's isn't the Spirit of Christ that causes you to Lie so much. It's the spirit of the prince of this world. This is undeniable truth.
I take God's word verbatim, I don't try to interpret scripture to meet any preconceived notions.

It's your post, and like you said, you are free to lie all you want, God isn't going to stop you.

You just cannot write civilly, can you? I have concluded that I cannot help you see the real truth. Too bad.

I'm sure the mainstream preachers of Paul's time thought the same thing when Paul exposed their lies.

Your dishonesty notwithstanding, there is not one place in the Bible where you can find a commandment or Ordinance of God, that relegated a Faithful non-Few as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". And therefore required Jesus to destroy it. If you could have found one, you would have presented it.

You have a rebuke coming for your stubborn defense of this insidious lie. I wish you would just stop promoting it.
 
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Hentenza

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Yes, the Covenant was made to Israel. God never made a covenant with Gentiles.
He grafted the gentiles into the tree so the gentiles became part of His chosen people.
Israel just represents God’s people.
Israel is Israel. Israel is not the gentiles So they only represent Israel not everyone.
In the NC Israel is no longer Israel of those who are born through heritage (flesh) Rom 9:6 now everyone who is part of God’s covenant promise is grafted in His covenant through faith Gal 3:26-29
Yes.
And His covenant has God’s laws Heb 8:10- His version not what man has reduced it to when God promised He would not Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18
No. The new covenant for Israel does but the law is not prescribed to the gentiles. The gentiles walk and are convicted by the Spirit.
No one is walking in the Spirit by breaking God's laws, like Jews can only worship God, but Gentiles don't have to, or Jews shouldn't murder their brethern, but Gentiles can, this is a big deception and considered walking in the flesh (sin) Rom 8:7-8. God's Spirit is given to help us keep God's laws, not break them.
Keep reading Romans 8 and you will find:

“However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭9‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

In the flesh means in the law while in the Spirit means not in the law but in the Spirit. There is no deception. The deception is trying to convince Christians that we are still under the law.
Joh 14:15 "If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Are those the Jewish book of law or if this Jesus two commandments that He gave us.

“One of the scribes came up and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12‬:‭28‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

God does not force or want anyone to sin. 1 John 2:1 which is breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 James 2:11-12 We can choose to tell the truth or to lie, or choose to murder our brethren or not. God is not the author of sin 1 John 3:8 so yes, we have free will to sin or not. We all struggle with sin, but through Jesus we can overcome if we do not harden our hearts to His call. Sadly, many people love their sin (darkness) more than they have love for Jesus John 3:19-21 John 14:15 1 John 5:3 Exo 20:6
No. Humanity is depraved. No one can do good and all will sin. Mankind is not free to stop sinning. No one can. There is only one in the history of mankind that has not sin and that is Jesus. So if you say that man has free will to stop sinning then you deny Christ’s sacrifice.

“What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one; There is no one who understands, There is no one who seeks out God; They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, There is not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave, With their tongues they keep deceiving,” “The venom of asps is under their lips”; “Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”; “Their feet are swift to shed blood, Destruction and misery are in their paths, And they have not known the way of peace.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3‬:‭9‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Once again there is no justification under the law.

The first council in Jerusalem stated:

“Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brothers, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” And after Paul and Barnabas had a heated argument and debate with them, the brothers determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue. Therefore, after being sent on their way by the church, they were passing through both Phoenicia and Samaria, describing in detail the conversion of the Gentiles, and they were bringing great joy to all the brothers and sisters. When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were received by the church, the apostles, and the elders, and they reported all that God had done with them. But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to keep the Law of Moses.” After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. Since this is the case, why are you putting God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our forefathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭5‬, ‭7‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The Christian is NOT under the law period. There no Sabbath requirement for Christians Period.
 
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Bob S

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I'm posting what the bible says. The Levite Priests were supposed to give people God's Laws, not laws after the imagination of their own hearts. Hebrews 8 speaks to this as the reason for the New Priesthood in the first place, "for finding fault with them". As I showed you in Malachi, it was the corrupt priests that led men astray.
That is not the point of our discussion. We are debating whether or not Jesus destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations, or whether He set aside the commandments of men. I am telling you that is not how it works. Jesus didn't come here to change the laws that man made. God never did that. God made man free to do what we please. We can either follow His teachings or spread heresies. The commands Jesus annulled were the ones He had previously given to Israel. Jesus initiated a new and better law for all mankind, the Royal Law of Love. We are to love others as Jesus loves us. I cannot believe you would accuse me of teaching heresy. When you do, you are also accusing Jesus, who gave mankind the new command, the New and better covenant, of love.

The remainder of your rantings are noted.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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In the flesh means in the law while in the Spirit means not in the law but in the Spirit. There is no deception. The deception is trying to convince Christians that we are still under the law.
Not according to Paul. Walking in the flesh means not being subject to the law of God and is the condition of the lost.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [f]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Just as we are told at His Second coming

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .
Are those the Jewish book of law or if this Jesus two commandments that He gave us.

“One of the scribes came up and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭12‬:‭28‬-‭31‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
The Christian is NOT under the law period.

You contradicted yourself, you said Christians are not under any Law and than quote Law we are to keep.

Yes, the greatest commandments are the Ten Commandments summarized

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Just as Jesus quoted OT right after the Ten Commandments was repeated the summary of the greatest commandments

Deut 6:5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

The Christian is NOT under the law period.
Only two groups at His Second Coming, not three. The ones who are without Law are not the ones who are blessed walking through the gates of heaven

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 or any of the commandments 1 John 2:4) Breaking one we break them all James 2:11-12 Exo 20:1-17 .

Will we follow those beforehand we were told not to Heb 4:11 we all have the same choices

Jer 32: 22 You have given them this land, of which You swore to their fathers to give them—“a land flowing with milk and honey.” 23 And they came in and took possession of it, but they have not obeyed Your voice or walked in Your law. They have done nothing of all that You commanded them to do; therefore You have caused all this calamity to come upon them.
There no Sabbath requirement for Christians Period.
God's people keep God's commandments Rev 14:12, the Sabbath is a commandment of God, no different than murdering our brethern or not only worshipping God. James 2:11-12

If we reject God's laws now, would one really be happy in the new heaven and new earth keeping every Sabbath worshipping before the Lord for eternity. God's will in heaven is the same for us now and God is a God of love would never force anyone to keep something for eternity they object to it so much now. Its why I believe His judgments are of love.

Isa66:23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me
,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me
,” says the Lord.
 
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Mt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Lu 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Eph 2: speaks of Jew and gentiles both in times past children of wrath...John's baptism preached to jew's the way of escape. Repentance...

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Mt 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.
11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


Gentiles (ye, the uncircumcision)

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Jews (we)

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

God's love and mercy in his promises to Abraham...
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) {by … : or, by whose grace }
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Deut 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Covenant circumcision a covenant of love and mercy to them........

10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

Jesus fulfilled this for them........they died in Christ, and were raised up with him
12 ¶ Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the LORD thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

Eph 2:4 ¶ But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) {by … : or, by whose grace }
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Gentiles were not party to the promises of the covenant of Circumcision.....
11 ¶ Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

I don't believe Paul is speaking of Unrepentant Pagans and unrepentant Jews here. "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Paul himself taught:

2 Cor. 6: 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

These Gentiles Paul is speaking to here are "Faithful Gentiles". "And you (Repentant Gentiles) hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

6 And hath raised "us" (Faithful Jews and Gentiles) up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

10 For we (Jew and Gentile who have "Yielded ourselves to God") are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained "that we should walk in them".

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles "in the flesh", (Not in the heart) who are called "Uncircumcision" (Not by God, or Paul, or God's Laws, but) "by that" which is called (the Circumcision) in the flesh made by hands;

This is not God who judged these Faithful Gentiles here, and it was not God's commandments that were against the Church of God both Jew and Gentile. And I can see what you are trying to say, and I considered it as well all those years ago. But it would go against every other teaching of Paul to say HE was talking about godless pagan people here.

12 That at that time (Even before Paul was converted there were gentiles who knew about and believed in Jesus, as it is written) ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


It's foolish to preach that Paul is speaking about the Children of Disobedience here. Remember, circumcision is of the heart, according to Moses and Paul. These men Paul is speaking to "Were uncircumcised of the heart" in times past, but they repented and "Turned to God". But the Pharisees who taught for doctrines the commandments of men wouldn't even let them in the Temple as their Law forbid it.

Acts 21: 27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,

28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further "brought Greeks also into the temple", and "hath polluted this holy place".

Not only that, but is you read what God's commandments actually say, it seals the deal for me.

I posted God's actual Law so you can see how God Considered a Faithful Gentile. Clearly the Pharisees had rejected this Law, and created their own, as it is also written. It was the Commandments of men the Priests of the Temple taught for doctrines that relegated Faithful non-Jews as without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But Jesus came and exposed them and their "Commandments of Men once and for all, and instructed us to Live By the Words of God, not religious traditions of men.

It wasn't God's Commandments that instructed men to judge according to the DNA they were born with. That is simply undeniable Biblical truth.

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; (Faithful Jews and Gentiles)
 
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You however seem to be making this about the Sinai covenant??
I see it by the Abrahamic covenant...Both covenats are a covenant of circumcision

De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Ephesians goes on to speak of jew and gentiles with regard to priesthood. Which under Moses law non levites were "strangers" from.

Ex 30:33 Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger <02114>, shall even be cut off from his people.
Le 22:10 There shall no stranger <02114> eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.
Le 22:12 If the priest’s daughter also be married unto a stranger <02114>, she may not eat of an offering of the holy things. {a stranger: Heb. a man a stranger }
Le 22:13 But if the priest’s daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father’s house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father’s meat: but there shall no stranger <02114> eat thereof.

These were priesthood duties of the Old Levitical Priesthood Covenant with Levi, and Hebrews 7 speaks to it. This Priesthood was prophesied to change, "After those days" to a New Priesthood "After the Order of Melchizedek". Hebrews tells us what the Change was, that the Priest of God is no longer required to be from the tribe of Levi. As it is written:

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, "there is made of necessity" a change also of the law.

This Author then goes about defining the change of the Law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.

14 For it is evident that our Lord "sprang out of Juda"; (Not Levi, as per the Law that you referenced) of which tribe "Moses spake nothing" concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, (Corruptible men appointing corruptible men to the Priesthood) but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever ( immortal Priest) after the order of Melchisedec.

Truly a better Ministry, a better covenant, with better promises.

Nothing in the New Covenant about the New Priest coming to destroy God's Laws. Only that His Laws are received in a different manner.

Nu 3:10 And thou shalt appoint Aaron and his sons, and they shall wait on their priest’s office: and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.
Nu 3:38 But those that encamp before the tabernacle toward the east, even before the tabernacle of the congregation eastward, shall be Moses, and Aaron and his sons, keeping the charge of the sanctuary for the charge of the children of Israel; and the stranger <02114> that cometh nigh shall be put to death.

Yes, the old Levitical Priesthood Covenant was with Levi, as it is also written;

Malachi 2 speak to this Covenant, and what happened to it.

4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (Ex. 32)

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity. 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused "many to stumble at the law"; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

Hebrews 8 speaks to this.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, (As you can see in Malachi 2) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

We no longer receive God's Law through the corrupt Levitical Priesthood, who "taught for doctrines the Commandments of men, and relegated Faithful Gentiles as without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But God's Laws are now written on the hearts of His People, seeing that "WE" now sit in Moses Seat, and have the Oracles of God in our own homes. Now we can study ourselves, and live by the Word's of God as the Christ "of the Bible" instructs, and not the philosophies and traditions of this world's religious system that have rejected God's righteousness and have gone about establishing their own.
 
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You however seem to be making this about the Sinai covenant??

I am not making it about any Covenant. Bob is, you seem to be, but not me. It's about what is actually written in Scriptures. In the religious system of this world God placed you and I in, "who come in Christ's Name", it is taught that God's commandments and Ordinances relegated Faithful Gentiles as without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But Paul isn't saying that at all and as you can SEE, God's Commandments teach no such thing.

That is what I'm making it about.

I see it by the Abrahamic covenant...Both covenats are a covenant of circumcision

But it was the Priesthood Covenant that God changed. There was no promise or prophesy to "Destroy" or "nail to the Cross" God's Laws in HIS definition of HIS New Covenant. You can read it for yourself. 2 things were prophesied to change.

#1. The manner in which God's Laws were received.

#2. The manner in which the remission of Sin is provided for.

Jesus said not to even "Think" HE came to destroy God's Laws. Clearly HE saw the "Many" deceivers who would "Come in His Name". shall i not believe Him?

De 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Ephesians goes on to speak of jew and gentiles with regard to priesthood. Which under Moses law non levites were "strangers" from.

Where is your evidence of the underlined? It is true that the duties of the Temporary Levitical Priesthood were to be partaken of by Levites only. Levites that were supposed to promote God's Laws to the people. Like the following.

Lev. 19: 33 And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you "as one born among you", and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

So if the "Levite Priests" had taught God's Commandments, instead of their own, there would have been no "Wall of Separation" between Faithful Jews and Faithful Gentiles. There would be a faithful people, and a Priesthood who provided for them, as they were commanded by God to do, while they waited for the Prophesied Priest of God "After the Order of Melchizedek" that Moses told them about.

But they didn't rallian. They, that is, the Rulers of the Temple in the city of David, corrupted the Priesthood Covenant of Levi, had departed out of the Way God instructed them to go, they led many astray, they caused "Many" to stumble at God's Laws, they created their own religion, their own high days, their own judgments and their own commandments which relegated the Non-Jew as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". And they called their religion, "The Law of Moses".

Jesus Exposed these "children of the Devil" that professed to know God, HE "spoiled the principalities and powers" that deceived so many people, he made a shew "of them" openly, triumphing "over them" in it.

As they declared, "WE have a Law, and by OUR Law, Jesus should be Killed". But His Father Raised Him from the Dead, causing HIM to "Triumph over them", exposing and Nailing to His Cross forever, the commandments of men they taught for doctrines. Which exposed to greatest religious sect of the world, in the time of Jesus and Paul, as children of the devil.

To believe Bob and the other "many" voices, who come in Christ's Name, in the world God placed me in, I would have to believe that it was God, whose Commandments relegated faithful Gentiles as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". I know this to be a lie, as I have read His Commandments, and I have challenged others to provide a commandment of God who relegated a faithful Non-Jew as "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world". And no one can provide one, because God's Commandments teach just the opposite.

I would have to believe the principality and Power that Jesus Spoiled, was the Power of God. I would have to believe that Jesus made a show "OF God and HIS Words" Openly on the Cross. I would have to believe that HE triumphed over "GOD and His instruction in righteousness that Jesus Lived By, and instructed me to Live By" in His Death and Resurrection.

Why would I do that, unless another voice in the garden God placed me in, had convinced me that God is a Liar. I used to believe men like Bob, Wherein in time past I walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

But Jesus nailed the "coarse of this world" and the commandments of the prince of the power of the air, to His Cross.
 
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