Progressive Covenentalism

9Rock9 · Thursday at 10:23 PM

Hello!

I am exploring eschatology to have a better understanding. I see arguments for both premillennialism and amillennialism, though I admit to being biased towards the former due to my denomination and upbringing.

One view I am considering is progressive covenentalism. It seems pretty compelling from a biblical standpoint and I think it fits the best with the New Testament. I do think it's pretty obvious, based on the text, that Jesus is the true Israel and all who are grafted in are heirs to the promise, including the promise of the land.

However, I am on the fence between progressive covenentalism and progressive dispensationalism.

My issue is that I do think there is some kind of significance to the return of the Jewish people to their land and I anticipate a future Messianic kingdom like in Acts 1:6, but I think dispensationalists can go too far with the separation between Israel and the Church. So, I don't want to say that Israel and the Jewish people have no significance at all to God's greater plan, and some verses do seem to teach that the Jewish people will be restored.

What are your thoughts?

FireDragon76 · Thursday at 10:41 PM

Have you read/watched any N.T. Wright?

The New Testament has various tensions in its eschatological visions that can't be easily reduced to one, unified, flat narrative. Many American Evangelicals also struggle with Realized Eschatology, even though it's a prominent part of the Gospel of John, and also present quietly in Paul's epistles (though American Evangelicals aren't necessarily used to noticing it- Paul's eschatology has often been read in ways that are compatible with American premillenialism).

keras · Friday at 12:03 AM

9Rock9 said:
My issue is that I do think there is some kind of significance to the return of the Jewish people to their land and I anticipate a future Messianic kingdom like in Acts 1:6, but I think dispensationalists can go too far with the separation between Israel and the Church. So, I don't want to say that Israel and the Jewish people have no significance at all to God's greater plan, and some verses do seem to teach that the Jewish people will be restored.

A careful reading of the Prophesies about the House of Judah, the Jews, shows that they face Judgment and punishment for their continued rejection of Jesus and their reliance on their own strength. It is made clear that only a remnant will survive, to rejoin with their brethren. Jeremiah 50:4-5 They won't say much; Ezekiel 16:63
Their brethren are the faithful Christian peoples, who consist mainly of those people who have descended from the ten Northern tribes of Israel and who have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus.

RandyPNW · Friday at 1:45 AM

9Rock9 said:
Hello!

I am exploring eschatology to have a better understanding. I see arguments for both premillennialism and amillennialism, though I admit to being biased towards the former due to my denomination and upbringing.

One view I am considering is progressive covenentalism. It seems pretty compelling from a biblical standpoint and I think it fits the best with the New Testament. I do think it's pretty obvious, based on the text, that Jesus is the true Israel and all who are grafted in are heirs to the promise, including the promise of the land.

However, I am on the fence between progressive covenentalism and progressive dispensationalism.

My issue is that I do think there is some kind of significance to the return of the Jewish people to their land and I anticipate a future Messianic kingdom like in Acts 1:6, but I think dispensationalists can go too far with the separation between Israel and the Church. So, I don't want to say that Israel and the Jewish people have no significance at all to God's greater plan, and some verses do seem to teach that the Jewish people will be restored.

What are your thoughts?

I do best by simply explaining what I believe, and utilize the various schools as needed. With Dispensentionalism I agree that Israel's future hope as a Christian nation is real. With Premillennialism, I think Israel's future national hope will be in the Millennium after Christ returns.

I think the way God dealt with Israel under the Law was different from the way He deals with nations under the New Covenant precisely because the Law preceded Christ's redemption. So the major difference is that God's Law impacts Christians today with no sense of participating in rituals meant to look forward to that event.

I disagree with Covenant Theology and its sense of Replacement Theology, viewing the Church as the New Israel and viewing Kingdom Hope as realized in our current Salvation. Theocracies only survive in the present and past eras on a partial basis, since countries are mixed and are weak to the forces of sin. A country corrupts until failure is inevitable.

Israel failed under the Law only because it was the first theocracy to exist, and the Law merely showed the process of sin in degrading a country until its inevitable failure. In the NT era nations that are Christian, or theocracies, fail the same way Israel did.

Christ comes to usher in the Kingdom of God in the Millennium by refining nations who had been called to faith, including Israel and the Christian nations. Other nations will simply be defeated and made subject to international Christian Law.

What Christians experience today of the Kingdom of God, or Realized Eschatology, is not eschatological, but only the impact of the Kingdom on the current process of Salvation. It is, in effect, a downpayment on our future inheritance, lived out in a world in which Sin is still allowed a choice and to hold sway.

Maria Billingsley · Friday at 8:39 AM

9Rock9 said:
Hello!

I am exploring eschatology to have a better understanding. I see arguments for both premillennialism and amillennialism, though I admit to being biased towards the former due to my denomination and upbringing.

One view I am considering is progressive covenentalism. It seems pretty compelling from a biblical standpoint and I think it fits the best with the New Testament. I do think it's pretty obvious, based on the text, that Jesus is the true Israel and all who are grafted in are heirs to the promise, including the promise of the land.

However, I am on the fence between progressive covenentalism and progressive dispensationalism.

My issue is that I do think there is some kind of significance to the return of the Jewish people to their land and I anticipate a future Messianic kingdom like in Acts 1:6, but I think dispensationalists can go too far with the separation between Israel and the Church. So, I don't want to say that Israel and the Jewish people have no significance at all to God's greater plan, and some verses do seem to teach that the Jewish people will be restored.

What are your thoughts?

Lets look at the scripture you pointed to in its full context.

Acts 1:6-8
Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Notice that the power Jesus Christ of Nazareth is speaking of comes through His Holy Spirit and it is to be used to spread His Gospel throughout the entire world. The Apostles still did not get it but soon they will when they receive His Holy Spirit. This is His command. There is absolutely nothing about establishing a kingdom in Israel as a matter of fact, the opposite occurred in 70AD which Jesus Christ of Nazareth prophesied to His flock.

God's greater plan is for all to come to know Him. He made it clear that His Kingdom is not of this world. To promote a kingdom in today's geopolitical Israel is in deep error and I am affraid for those who continue to persist on this agenda.

Remember His words......

John 18:35-37
35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Jew? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What have You done?”
36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the " true vine" and those who are in Him are the true branches. This is Israel.

Blessings

Hazelelponi · Friday at 8:49 AM

9Rock9 said:
Hello!

I am exploring eschatology to have a better understanding. I see arguments for both premillennialism and amillennialism, though I admit to being biased towards the former due to my denomination and upbringing.

One view I am considering is progressive covenentalism. It seems pretty compelling from a biblical standpoint and I think it fits the best with the New Testament. I do think it's pretty obvious, based on the text, that Jesus is the true Israel and all who are grafted in are heirs to the promise, including the promise of the land.

However, I am on the fence between progressive covenentalism and progressive dispensationalism.

My issue is that I do think there is some kind of significance to the return of the Jewish people to their land and I anticipate a future Messianic kingdom like in Acts 1:6, but I think dispensationalists can go too far with the separation between Israel and the Church. So, I don't want to say that Israel and the Jewish people have no significance at all to God's greater plan, and some verses do seem to teach that the Jewish people will be restored.

What are your thoughts?

keras · Friday at 3:48 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
Jesus Christ of Nazareth is the " true vine" and those who are in Him are the true branches. This is Israel.

Therefore: those who follow Jesus are Israelites; the Overcomers for God.

Re; the Millennium,
Scriptures like Isaiah 2:1-5 & Zechariah 14:16-21, plus the clearly worded Prophecies in Revelation 20, make it perfectly clear that here will come a time when Jesus will be King over all the world. Isaiah 53:12, Daniel 7:13-14

Search

Search

Progressive Covenentalism

9Rock9

Sinner in need of grace.

More options

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member

More options

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

More options

RandyPNW

Well-Known Member

More options

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member

More options

Hazelelponi

Well-Known Member

Attachments

More options

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

More options

Similar threads