Salvation by grace through faith and our responsibility?

Brightfame52 said:

@Jack Terrence



The same thing, Spiritually dead because of sin. And the elect are never condemned because of sin, they are born spiritually dead, but not condemned, Christ blood covers their condemnation.

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Brightfame52 said:

@Jack Terrence



The same thing, Spiritually dead because of sin. And the elect are never condemned because of sin, they are born spiritually dead, but not condemned, Christ blood covers their condemnation.

Click to expand...

Jack Terrence said:

I cannot find a single translation which says "spiritually dead." Paul simply said that we were dead in our trespasses and sins. The word "dead" is a metaphor. Paul wasn't talking about a spiritual corpse.

In Romans 8 he said that "the body is dead because of sin." He wasn't saying that our bodies were walking corpses. He was saying that our bodies are subject to death.

Gof told king Abimelech that he was a dead man for taking another man's wife. It meant that Abimelech was under the sentence of death, that is, he was under condemnation. That is what Paul meant in Ephesians 2. He meant that we were under the penalty of death. "And you were dead (condemned) in your trespasses and sins."

Jesus said that the one who believes in him shall not be conemned but is passed from death to life.

Dead metaphorically means under condemnation. It has nithing to do with a spiritual condition. It is a legal standing.

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To say that you were never condemned is an assault on the Gospel.

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BBAS 64 said:

Good day, Jack Terrence

It is always best when replying to include the whole post:

My Whole post:

Good day, Jack

I can not find a single translation, or Greek lexicon that supports such an understand nor says that "condemned" is a valid understanding of what the word means.

"When Paul said that were "dead in our trespasses and sins" he meant that we are condemned because of our sins."

Do you have a source?

If as you say that is what Paul meant then he would have used another adj. here and not:
Thayers :

2a) spiritually dead
2a1) destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
2a2) inactive as respects doing right
2b) destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative


Looking for a source...

End of post

Still looking for your source from you that condemned is a valid meaning and understanding for the word Paul used that means (Thayers) spiritually dead.

I contend that if Paul wished to convey the meaning of "condemned" he would have by definition used another word.

So do you have one?


In Him

Bill

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BBAS 64 said:

Good day, Jack Terrence

It is always best when replying to include the whole post:

My Whole post:

Good day, Jack

I can not find a single translation, or Greek lexicon that supports such an understand nor says that "condemned" is a valid understanding of what the word means.

"When Paul said that were "dead in our trespasses and sins" he meant that we are condemned because of our sins."

Do you have a source?

If as you say that is what Paul meant then he would have used another adj. here and not:
Thayers :

2a) spiritually dead
2a1) destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
2a2) inactive as respects doing right
2b) destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative


Looking for a source...

End of post

Still looking for your source from you that condemned is a valid meaning and understanding for the word Paul used that means (Thayers) spiritually dead.

I contend that if Paul wished to convey the meaning of "condemned" he would have by definition used another word.

So do you have one?

Click to expand...

Brightfame52 said:

@Jack Terrence



False in fact to say they were condemned is an assault to the Gospel, because proclaims He became a curse for them, condemned for them when He died for them Gal 3:13

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

So please explain how them He became a curse for, condemned for, how God also lays their condemnation on them as well ? Thats double jeopardy and overthrowing Justice

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Jack Terrence said:

First, Paul said that you were a child of wrath (Eph 2:2). In Ephesians 1 he said that you were not identified as one of God's people until you believed (1:13).

Second, the Galatians passage you quoted says that Christ came to redeem those who were "under the law." But Gentiles were not under the law. They did not have the law (Rom. 2:14; I Cor. 9:20-22).

In other words, the New Testament never says that Christ came to redeem you or any Gentile. So you cannot use Galatians as a proof text for your theology. Gentiles were added to Israel's blessings. But strictly speaking Christ did not come to be a curse for them.

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