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The will to live - Who is it from?
- Thread starter Joseph G
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At the risk of making this thread legitimate, I do fancy Spinoza's notion of conatus.
en.wikipedia.org
Conatus - Wikipedia
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- Aug 20, 2019
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That's what came to mind for me, but there is a history of that idea before he appropriated it. Schopenhauer, for instance, also comes to mind. On the general notion, we do seem to have a drive not only for existence but also for some sense of progress. Does that speak of a creator? If it does, the idea of "creator" will have to be general since many types of "creator" could fit the bill, not all of which would be like those of the Abrahamic traditions.
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- Dec 22, 2023
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Ah, Brad, you of all people shouldn't miss the obvious. He's either in the process of transitioning to or from a centipede. If you can imagine it, it must be true!
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Fervent
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A quote I cannot bother to source comes to mind, "Good artists borrow, great artists steal."
I'm not sure how much attribution to some creator we can apply such ideas, as the notion appears to be a post hoc idea.
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Ha! I like the thought but won't ask for examples.
Do you mean the idea that we have a will to live proves God is also a post hoc idea? If so, I agree. Nonetheless, it is a fascinating aspect of our existence. Why do we want to survive? Is it just blind desire? For most folks, actually, it probably is.
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Fervent
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Fair enough, just a thought on the association of Nietszche with an admittedly appropriated idea.Ha! I like the thought but won't ask for examples.
Then again, the best philosophers in modern parlance tend to be those who are good at synthesis so it's kind of inherent in phlosophy.
Yeah, it's an inherently flawed approach "I have desires, so the universe must too." I believe the common joke around the internet is the "Creationist puddle" thinking "This hole must have been made for me personally".
Yeah, though I find desire and all other subjective experiene fascinating. Qualia, they call it. One of the clear limits of scientific explanations, with some even willing to go so far as to declare it an illusion because it doesn't fit in a third-person understanding of reality.Nonetheless, it is a fascinating aspect of our existence. Why do we want to survive? Is it just blind desire? For most folks, actually, it probably is.
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Bradskii
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Well, a genetic glitch might have caused it. If something tries to catch it as food it'll scuttle off, but with 5 legs on one side and 4 on the other you'd only have to wait a few moments and it'll be back where it started. Something of an evolutionary dead end I'd say.
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Thank you for pointing that out. For some reason I can't see signatures unless I click on the name.
Yeah, evolution entails a drive to survive, which makes sense. Without survival, we have to look for another efficient cause.
ETA: I'm questioning my choice of "efficient cause," but will leave it. Feel free to raise objections.
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Natural selection. That's the reason for the 'will to live'.
Natural selection favours survival. Organisms that don't have the 'will to live' will have lower survival rates. As a result, the population will have lower success in replicating/having descendants. That means that their genetic material won't be passed on. And they'll die out (or at least die out more rapidly than that of competitors).
Meanwhile, organisms that do have the 'will to survive' have their genetic material passed on. This will include their tendencies towards survival and replication/reproduction. And, if a mutation occurs that further improves survival (and thus leads to better reproductive success), then that mutation is likely to be conserved and spread through descendant populations.
It's not that hard with even just a middle school understanding of evolutionary theory.
Natural selection favours survival. Organisms that don't have the 'will to live' will have lower survival rates. As a result, the population will have lower success in replicating/having descendants. That means that their genetic material won't be passed on. And they'll die out (or at least die out more rapidly than that of competitors).
Meanwhile, organisms that do have the 'will to survive' have their genetic material passed on. This will include their tendencies towards survival and replication/reproduction. And, if a mutation occurs that further improves survival (and thus leads to better reproductive success), then that mutation is likely to be conserved and spread through descendant populations.
It's not that hard with even just a middle school understanding of evolutionary theory.
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Fervent
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Careful there, the notion that organisms adapt to circumstances is a bit backwards. Organisms don't mutate in order to adapt, mutations occur and then selection pressures render some advantageous...the ones that are produce advantages survive, or at least the ones that don't actively produce disadvantages. So the question is, what selection pressures would make a 9-legged spider hold an advantage?
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"Natural selection" and "will to live" seem like two ways of saying the same thing. How are they different?
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