No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

d taylor · Jul 6, 2025

concretecamper said:
Mat 22:1 And Jesus answering, spoke again in parables to them, saying:
22:2 The kingdom of heaven is likened to a king who made a marriage for his son.
22:3 And he sent his servants to call them that were invited to the marriage: and they would not come.
22:4 Again he sent other servants, saying: Tell them that were invited, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my beeves and fatlings are killed, and all things are ready. Come ye to the marriage.
22:5 But they neglected and went their ways, one to his farm and another to his merchandise.
22:6 And the rest laid hands on his servants and, having treated them contumeliously, put them to death.
22:7 But when the king had heard of it, he was angry: and sending his armies, he destroyed those murderers and burnt their city.
22:8 Then he saith to his servants: The marriage indeed is ready; but they that were invited were not worthy.
22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways; and as many as you shall find, call to the marriage.
22:10 And his servants going forth into the ways, gathered together all that they found, both bad and good: and the marriage was filled with guests.
22:11 And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment.
22:12 And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having on a wedding garment? But he was silent.
22:13 Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

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The wedding celebration is not the kingdom of God; it is in the kingdom of God.

This parable is not addressing salvation, but a call to believers to a reward (the wedding feast)

d taylor · Jul 6, 2025

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John 6:65
Do We Have Free Will to Come to Christ? – Grace Evangelical Society

concretecamper · Jul 6, 2025

d taylor said:
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The wedding celebration is not the kingdom of God; it is in the kingdom of God.

This parable is not addressing salvation, but a call to believers to a reward (the wedding feast)

Your issue is with Jesus, not me.

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is likened to a king who made a marriage for his son.

d taylor · Jul 6, 2025

concretecamper said:
Your issue is with Jesus, not me.

Mat 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is likened to a king who made a marriage for his son.

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The parable takes place in The Kingdom of heaven, the people there are born again children of God. It is not about unbelievers getting into heaven.

But you can bel;ieve what you want.

d taylor · Jul 6, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
@d taylor

Spiritually we are as mere natural men, we are dead in sin unto God. Any activity we have towards God while dead is adverse.

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Adverse. Acting or serving to oppose; antagonistic.

So Cornelius actions were antagonistic toward God. I wonder why God sent Peter to explain to Cornelius and his relatives and close friends. How to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life by belief in Jesus.

Or the eunuch reading Isaiah the prophet.

Or Simon the sorcerer, he believed in Jesus and became a permanent born again child of God.

bling · Jul 7, 2025

pasifika said:
freewill speaking of in the Bible is the will to seek after God. We as sinners by nature cannot do that because of the Sin that lives within us.

Seeking God comes after being showered with unbelievable wonderful gifts.
Sinners cannot do anything noble, worthy, righteous, or holy, but they can of their own free will choose to do one bad over another bad and thus be responsible for the bad they chose to do.
Being motivated for selfish reasons is a sin, so a sinner for selfish reasons (sinful) can willingly accept pure undeserved charity from God as pure charity, allowing God to shower him with undeserved gifts.

BBAS 64 · Jul 7, 2025

RC narrows it down:

bling · Jul 7, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
No man can come to Christ by his own freewill ability because by nature hes dead in trespasses and sins and without spiritual life and ability to do or act. So consequently he cant come and believe on Christ of himself, or of his own freewill.

Just because there are many things we cannot do of our own free will, does not mean we do not have some free will to do other stuff needed to fulfill our objective and become like God.

First off do you agree with the following:

Unbelieving sinful man cannot of his own free will do anything noble, honorable, worthy, righteous or holy, but he/she can do stuff for selfish reasons?

If sinful man did make an autonomous free will choice to follow Christ that would be an honorable, righteous, and worthy of something choice, so sinful man cannot make such a choice?

Here is what we might not agree with:

The one autonomous free will choice mature adults need to be able to make to complete their earthly objective is to humbly accept or reject God’s help (charity/mercy/grace/Love/forgiveness) as pure charity. In other words: sinful humans can choose to hang in there, be macho, pay the piper and take the punishment they fully deserve or they can wimp out, give up and surrender to their hated enemy, while they still hate their enemy (God) they are just willing to humbly accept their enemy’s undeserved pure charity. They still might feel they deserve from their enemy to be severely tortured to death, for their previous war crimes, yet they are willing to take undeserved charity. They are not being righteous, holy, glorious, honorable, worthy and noble in what they are doing, since it is for selfish reasons, they are willing to accept their enemy’s charity.

God is not forcing his charity on the sinner like some kind of shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun, since that would not be Loving on God’s part nor would the sinner obtain Godly type Love in that manner. By accepting this Love in the form of forgiveness Jesus has taught us “…he who is forgiven much Loves much…” so humbly accepting pure undeserved forgiveness of an unbelievable huge debt automatically results in the former sinner receiving an unbelievable huge Love (Godly type Love) and thus fulfill the first part of sinners earthly objective.

bling · Jul 7, 2025

BBAS 64 said:
RC narrows it down:

View attachment 367212

What gets us all is the fact, you believe God does not treat everyone justly and fairly (and thus unlovingly to some), but gives only a few a loving desire.

bling · Jul 7, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Everything starts with God's Love for everyone, but not everyone accepts God's Love, but all that do go to Christ.

bling · Jul 7, 2025

concretecamper said:
Mat 22:1 And Jesus answering, spoke again in parables to them, saying:
22:2 The kingdom of heaven is likened to a king who made a marriage for his son.
22:3 And he sent his servants to call them that were invited to the marriage: and they would not come.
22:4 Again he sent other servants, saying: Tell them that were invited, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my beeves and fatlings are killed, and all things are ready. Come ye to the marriage.
22:5 But they neglected and went their ways, one to his farm and another to his merchandise.
22:6 And the rest laid hands on his servants and, having treated them contumeliously, put them to death.
22:7 But when the king had heard of it, he was angry: and sending his armies, he destroyed those murderers and burnt their city.
22:8 Then he saith to his servants: The marriage indeed is ready; but they that were invited were not worthy.
22:9 Go ye therefore into the highways; and as many as you shall find, call to the marriage.
22:10 And his servants going forth into the ways, gathered together all that they found, both bad and good: and the marriage was filled with guests.
22:11 And the king went in to see the guests: and he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment.
22:12 And he saith to him: Friend, how camest thou in hither not having on a wedding garment? But he was silent.
22:13 Then the king said to the waiters: Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the exterior darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The few that are chosen are all those who accept the invitation, they are the chosen. God decided (chose) before the beginning of time to choose all those who accept the invitation.

BBAS 64 · Jul 7, 2025

bling said:
What gets us all is the fact, you believe God does not treat everyone justly and fairly (and thus unlovingly to some), but gives only a few a loving desire.

Good day, Bling

“Let’s assume that all men are guilty of sin in the sight of God. From the mass of humanity, God sovereignly decides to give mercy to some of them. What do the rest get? They get justice. The saved get mercy and the unsaved get justice. Nobody gets injustice.”
― R. C. Sproul

Some get Justice and some get Mercy, no one is treated unjustly.

God is glorified in the free choice exercise of Justice and Mercy. Do you believe that God has a free will?

In Him,

Bill

Brightfame52 · Jul 7, 2025

Man by nature cant by his own freewill ability come to Christ because all men by nature are spiritually dead in [in the sphere of] trespasses and sins. Speaking of Gods elect Paul writes of them by nature Eph 2:1-3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The word dead here nekros means:

adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.

The lifeless here by nature is lifeless spiritually. Spiritually to God and things of God man naturally is liken to a dead lifeless corpse.

Jesus used this same word here Matt 8:22

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Now the dead was to bury the dead. The Spiritually dead person was to bury the physically dead person. Yet the Spiritually dead person wasnt dead physically was he ? Did you know that one can be dead, lifeless and yet be physically live and active ?

Now in order for a man to come to Christ he must first have life, no not physical life but spiritual life which not even the elect have by nature.

bling · Jul 7, 2025

BBAS 64 said:
Good day, Bling

“Let’s assume that all men are guilty of sin in the sight of God. From the mass of humanity, God sovereignly decides to give mercy to some of them. What do the rest get? They get justice. The saved get mercy and the unsaved get justice. Nobody gets injustice.”
― R. C. Sproul

Some get Justice and some get Mercy, no one is treated unjustly.

God is glorified in the free choice exercise of Justice and Mercy. Do you believe that God has a free will?

In Him,

Bill

Everyone gets perfect justice (God is totally fair) and everyone gets Mercy/Grace/Love/Charity/Forgiveness over to them for the taking (accepting).
Yes! God has free will but always is perfectly consistent and never arbitrary, so everyone is treated "equally" in the areas which count. Lazarus sent his time on earth, providing the very best opportunity for that rich man (whom God also Loved) to fulfill His earthly objective by experiencing and obtaining Godly type Love. Both were treated equally in the one area of salvation which is the one area that counts.
Much more can be said, but which way do you want to go?

Brightfame52 · Jul 7, 2025

@d taylor

Adverse. Acting or serving to oppose; antagonistic.

Yeah, naturally being dead in sin causes enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Untill a person is regenerated they are carnal

Brightfame52 · Jul 7, 2025

bling said:
Everything starts with God's Love for everyone, but not everyone accepts God's Love, but all that do go to Christ.

According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

bling · Jul 7, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Man by nature cant by his own freewill ability come to Christ because all men by nature are spiritually dead in [in the sphere of] trespasses and sins. Speaking of Gods elect Paul writes of them by nature Eph 2:1-3

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The word dead here nekros means:

adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.

The lifeless here by nature is lifeless spiritually. Spiritually to God and things of God man naturally is liken to a dead lifeless corpse.

Jesus used this same word here Matt 8:22

But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Now the dead was to bury the dead. The Spiritually dead person was to bury the physically dead person. Yet the Spiritually dead person wasnt dead physically was he ? Did you know that one can be dead, lifeless and yet be physically live and active ?

Now in order for a man to come to Christ he must first have life, no not physical life but spiritual life which not even the elect have by nature.

In the "Parable of the Prodigal Son", Jesus could use any words He wanted to in order to best communicate life in the Kingdom and Christ used twice in the described of the condition of the prodigal son "dead", even when the father knew the son was physically alive. While the son was "dead" by Jesus' definition of "dead", the son could come to his senses on his own and repent (turn to the father). That is how it is in the Kingdom.
"dead" can have several different meanings, but the lost son in sin is very similar to many of us.

BBAS 64 · Jul 7, 2025

bling said:
Everyone gets perfect justice (God is totally fair) and everyone gets Mercy/Grace/Love/Charity/Forgiveness over to them for the taking (accepting).
Yes! God has free will but always is perfectly consistent and never arbitrary, so everyone is treated "equally" in the areas which count. Lazarus sent his time on earth, providing the very best opportunity for that rich man (whom God also Loved) to fulfill His earthly objective by experiencing and obtaining Godly type Love. Both were treated equally in the one area of salvation which is the one area that counts.
Much more can be said, but which way do you want to go?

Good day,Bling

He will have mercy on who he has (choice) mercy.

I agree he is not arbitrary, but arbitrary does not require "equality" God does not act in a random manner.

Everything he does in necessary and serves His purpose / intentions and good pleasure and can not be thawed.

In Him,

Bill

bling · Jul 7, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

I just got through saying "No"!
When a soldier battling his enemy (God), wimps out, gives up and surrenders to his enemy, he still hates his enemy, but is just willing to humbly accept his hated enemy's undeserved charity, while all along still hating his enemy. God showers the soldier with unbelievable wonderful gifts which than causes the soldier to want to join his now former enemy. Those gifts are a huge draw.

d taylor · Jul 7, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
@d taylor

Yeah, naturally being dead in sin causes enmity against God Rom 8:7

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Untill a person is regenerated they are carnal

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Prove your belief and show in The Bible people are being regenerated before they believe in Jesus.

So actually God has John 3:16 wrong (along with other verses)

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

So John 3:16 should actually read.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever is regenerated then believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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