No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Brightfame52 · Friday at 6:14 AM

Jn 6:44

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

No man can come here means no man has the ability to come to Christ. That cancels out the myth that man has a freewill,

It also means that no man has the ability to believe on Christ for Salvation. Because Christ equates believing on Him with coming to Him. Jn 6:64-65

64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

What about those Jesus says to them Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Thats answered in Jn 6:44 they simply will not come because they cannot come unless the Power of God draws them and makes them willing

Ps 110:3

3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

If and when one comes to believe on Christ willingly, the credit goes to Gods Power !

ozso · Friday at 6:24 AM

And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32

d taylor · Friday at 7:16 AM

-

God has given humanity The Bible, so through the reading of The Bible (especially The Gospel of John) any person can come to believe in Jesus for eternal life.

And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

Maria Billingsley · Friday at 7:24 AM

Brightfame52 said:
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

In scriptural context, "draw" means to attract, influence, or lead someone to Christ through the internal and powerful work of God's grace.

To attract, influence or lead someone entails a person to finally choose what they are being drawn into. Therefore, not canceling out free will.

And His will is that all come to know Him and be saved:

1 Timothy
"I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles."

Blessings

Brightfame52 · Friday at 8:49 AM

ozso said:
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. John 12:32

Nothing about mans freewill here, in fact its about Christs Sovereign will

Brightfame52 · Friday at 9:01 AM

@Maria Billingsley

In scriptural context, "draw" means to attract, influence, or lead someone to Christ through the internal and powerful work of God's grace.

Yes thats the birth of the Spirit, they are now being led by the Spirit, not freewill. Rom 8

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Led here means agō a verb meaning:

to lead, guide, direct
to lead through, conduct to: to something
to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

Thats the drawing, its part of the new birth by the Spirit. Everyone Jesus was lifted up for, shall experience this powerful work of the Spirit leading them to Christ. Its a inward work, Phil 1:6

Being confident of this very thing, that he[God the Spirit] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

ozso · Friday at 9:04 AM

Brightfame52 said:
Nothing about mans freewill here, in fact its about Christs Sovereign will

No man can come to Christ unless drawn by God, but since all men will be drawn there's no selectively as in some will be called and others won't. All will be drawn. So if all do not come to Christ, that means those who didn't chose not to. It's either that or all come to Christ which equals universal salvation.

Maria Billingsley · Friday at 9:54 AM

Brightfame52 said:
@Maria Billingsley

Yes thats the birth of the Spirit, they are now being led by the Spirit, not freewill. Rom 8

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Led here means agō a verb meaning:

to lead, guide, direct

to lead through, conduct to: to something

to move, impel: of forces and influences on the mind

Thats the drawing, its part of the new birth by the Spirit. Everyone Jesus was lifted up for, shall experience this powerful work of the Spirit leading them to Christ. Its a inward work, Phil 1:6

Being confident of this very thing, that he[God the Spirit] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ

Of course ! This is the " born again" experience upon conversion.
Thanks for sharing.

SavedByGrace3 · Friday at 10:45 AM

And no man leaves unless he was never part of us to start with.

1 John 2:19 KJV
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

2 Timothy 2:19 KJV
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Matthew 7:23 KJV
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

THere have been times in my life, especially early in my walk, when I was so discouraged that I actually wanted to leave and made motions in that direction. I packed my Bibles and books away, and stopped fellowshipping. But I found that I could not get away. He was always there prodding me and picking me up. Believers stay. You cannot just stop being born again. He will not let you go without a fight. And He wins.

Aaron112 · Friday at 10:54 AM

SavedByGrace3 said:
And He wins.

Not necessarily.
Those who decide to walk away from Jesus, just like many of His Own Disciples did in the NT, can walk away and never be resurrected to life.

SavedByGrace3 · Friday at 11:07 AM

Aaron112 said:
Not necessarily.
Those who decide to walk away from Jesus, just like many of His Own Disciples did in the NT, can walk away and never be resurrected to life.

I understand what you are saying A112. But those people were never born again. They merely assented to His teaching as long as it benefited them. The first time something came up that they did not like, they hit the road. As John said:

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

Thanks for your comment.

Akita Suggagaki · Friday at 12:02 PM

All this is irrelevant to the choices we face each day.

Brightfame52 · Friday at 12:08 PM

ozso said:
No man can come to Christ unless drawn by God, but since all men will be drawn there's no selectively as in some will be called and others won't. All will be drawn. So if all do not come to Christ, that means those who didn't chose not to. It's either that or all come to Christ which equals universal salvation.

Not a thing about mans freewill.

Brightfame52 · Friday at 12:12 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
Of course ! This is the " born again" experience upon conversion.
Thanks for sharing.

Im not agreeing with you. All the drawn are converted. The drawing is their conversion. So it doesnt include the unconverted

Brightfame52 · Friday at 12:15 PM

Akita Suggagaki said:
All this is irrelevant to the choices we face each day.

The only choices you make are the ones God ordained for you to make when He made a choice for you to take your next breath.

ozso · Friday at 12:22 PM

Brightfame52 said:
Not a thing about mans freewill.

Except for the "So if all do not come to Christ, that means those who didn't chose not to" part. If man has no choice, and all are called, that means everyone on earth will be saved. And that's universalism.

ozso · Friday at 12:25 PM

Brightfame52 said:
The only choices you make are the ones God ordained for you to make when He made a choice for you to take your next breath.

Ah so I can say God made me make all my wrong choices that have gone against His will. God makes me choose to sin.

Maria Billingsley · Friday at 12:29 PM

Brightfame52 said:
Im not agreeing with you. All the drawn are converted. The drawing is their conversion. So it doesnt include the unconverted

I am familiar with the doctrinal view of regeneration preceeding faith. Honestly in the end, we will all be judged equally.
Blessings

A New Dawn · Friday at 1:45 PM

d taylor said:
-God has given humanity The Bible, so through the reading of The Bible (especially The Gospel of John) any person can come to believe in Jesus for eternal life.

And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

One still has to have eyes that see and ears that hear. A truism that Christ used frequently.
Matthew 11:15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Mark 4:23. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.
Luke 8:8. Other seed fell into the good soil, and grew up, and produced a crop a hundred times as great.” As He said these things, He would call out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

A New Dawn · Friday at 1:53 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
In scriptural context, "draw" means to attract, influence, or lead someone to Christ through the internal and powerful work of God's grace.

To attract, influence or lead someone entails a person to finally choose what they are being drawn into. Therefore, not canceling out free will.

And His will is that all come to know Him and be saved:

1 Timothy
"I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles."

Blessings

Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient to cover all sin, it is efficient only for those that he chooses, draws, turns their heart to himself, and gifts saving faith.

No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Well-Known Member

✦

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

✦

Well-Known Member

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)

Well-Known Member

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

✦

✦

Well-Known Member

Bind my wandering heart to thee!

Bind my wandering heart to thee!

Similar threads