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Where Have All The Good Times Gone?

durangodawood

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I contend that there is not overall moral progress. Abolition of (most) slavery was good, but my parents grew up in a time where crime was so low people didn't even have locks on the doors of their houses.
Must have been lovely for your parents, growing up in The Shire and relaxing with a pint every evening at The Green Dragon.
 
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durangodawood

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Fun fact: All in the Family wasn't an original idea, it was a US adaptation of the UK show "Till Death Do Us Part".

Being a bit of a British Comedy buff, I remember the Alf Garnett character more than the Archie Bunker.


But I do remember what I remember hearing what a political writer said about All In the Family...

Paraphrasing because I don't have it committed verbatim:

"The show taught me what a staunch conservative and hardline liberal were...
On one side, you had a man who refuses to accept changes that challenge the way things used to be due to a myopic sense of nostalgia...
And his opposite, an unemployed college-educated activist who lives in his house for free, eats his food, and repays him by calling him a bigot"


There is some accuracy to that in terms of describing our current political tension lol
Except for the employment picture. The con these days is as likely to be employed as the lib.
 
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ozso

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I contend that there is not overall moral progress. Abolition of (most) slavery was good, but my parents grew up in a time where crime was so low people didn't even have locks on the doors of their houses.
Maybe that was the case in rural areas, but people living in more populated areas locked their doors.
 
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partinobodycular

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What I'm saying is that things really are worse.

Oh pshaw, it's just life doing typical life stuff. Some days it rains, some days it doesn't. You've gotta learn to find the value in all of them.

Don't be distraught about it... be amazed.
 
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Bradskii

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You could frame it that way. But we might have a scale problem. Just like people get myopic about short term moral backsliding and mistake that for the whole human story, the reaaaally long term picture may hold some catastrophic and enduring dips.

The thing about the future is, we dont know whats in it.

That said, I do believe we have a natural tendency to want to make life better for ourselves, and the wise that moral progress is foundational to achieving that in an enduring way.
But (and now playing Devil's Advocate to my own argument), despite there being many things on which all reasonable people would agree, there are some aspects of life today which I think represent moral progress to which others will always disagree. Freedom from hunger v I don't want to pay for that. Freedom of speech v I don't want them saying that. Freedom of movement v I don't want them living here. Freedom of choice v I don't want those people to get married.
 
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Bradskii

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Oh pshaw, it's just life doing typical life stuff. Some days it rains, some days it doesn't. You've gotta learn to find the value in all of them.

Don't be distraught about it... be amazed.
Well, I'm not being snide, but I can chew gum and pass gas at the same time.

I'm sitting on my deck on a glorious afternoon. Nothing but blue sky. Might go down the beach later and watch for some whales heading south. Decide what to have for dinner with my gorgeous wife. Might open a decent bottle of something. I can, and I am, enjoying all that and feeling extremely fortunate. But at the same time...I open up the news on my tablet and it's nothing but depressing. Gaza, Iran, the US, Ukraine...
 
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Hvizsgyak

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Things are objectively worse for a lot of people.

You may not know the feeling of having the threat of your legal status taken away but it's not a teensy teensy stress.

Perhaps, somehow you haven't noticed an increase in household expenses. Lucky you I suppose.

But doesn't it seem telling if you, person advocating for more positive news, can only come up with two very limp examples.

Space program? Who is that giving an immediate benefit for?

Coming together and celebrating life? Sorry? Are you watching a coca cola commercial feom the 70s? Have you not noticed how divided the country actually is?
But the liberal media controls the narrative. Even though CNN and MSNBC aren't doing that great, the local news still just chimes what they say or they repeat the headlines of the Washington Post or the New York Times. In all these news outlets, you get doom and gloom. Like someone posted here, these news outlets had the economy great under Biden. I liked some of the stuff Obama did as did the news outlets. In their eyes, he did nothing wrong. It was those "wicked" Republicans who were causing all the problems,

I'm sure the news media had a good idea of all the illegal immigrants in this country but they said nothing over the years. The problem just got worse and worse. Now there is someone in the White House who is going after the illegal immigrants (who are using our tax payer dollars) and there is a big stink. I don't see anybody pointing fingers at the officials who turned a blind eye to the illegal immigration. I believe the US is allowed to tighten it's border and get rid of all the illegals if it so chooses.

A lot of liberal minded people are causing this stench in our country right now. We do have a lot of good stuff going on here that all Americans should be celebrating. Unfortunately, we probably will not get to enjoy it because the local news media only parrot the rot coming liberal news media.
 
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partinobodycular

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But at the same time...I open up the news on my tablet and it's nothing but depressing. Gaza, Iran, the US, Ukraine...

It must be my apathetic nature, because those things don't bother me at all. It's just people doing people stuff. It's the same reaction that I get when I think about you going to the beach, or opening a decent bottle of something. It's just another day of Bradskii doing Bradskii stuff. Meanwhile humanity is on this amazing adventure, and at least for a little while I get to ride along. Iran is fighting Israel, Russia is fighting Ukraine, the conservatives are angry with the liberals, and Trump is doing who knows what crazy stuff... how bloody cool is that?
 
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Bradskii

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It must be my apathetic nature, because those things don't bother me at all. It's just people doing people stuff. It's the same reaction that I get when I think about you going to the beach, or opening a decent bottle of something. It's just another day of Bradskii doing Bradskii stuff. Meanwhile humanity is on this amazing adventure, and at least for a little while I get to ride along. Iran is fighting Israel, Russia is fighting Ukraine, the conservatives are angry with the liberals, and Trump is doing who knows what crazy stuff... how bloody cool is that?
It's like the old Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times. I guess it's lucky that we can turn off at times and look from the outside in like an interested observer.

I was channel surfing just before going to bed on 9/11 (it happened in the late evening down here). And caught the first report, then watched it all unfold. It was obviously horrifying to watch, and I knew that thousands of people were dying. But there was a small part of me thinking 'This is so cool - I'm watching a major event in modern history in real time'.
 
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durangodawood

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But (and now playing Devil's Advocate to my own argument), despite there being many things on which all reasonable people would agree, there are some aspects of life today which I think represent moral progress to which others will always disagree. Freedom from hunger v I don't want to pay for that. Freedom of speech v I don't want them saying that. Freedom of movement v I don't want them living here. Freedom of choice v I don't want those people to get married.
At the cutting edge of moral evolution theres always resistance. Look how hard it was to end slavery in the USA. Or to let women vote. If a particular change is actually a wise move, people will mostly come around over time.
 
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Jerry N.

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At the cutting edge of moral evolution theres always resistance. Look how hard it was to end slavery in the USA. Or to let women vote. If a particular change is actually a wise move, people will mostly come around over time.
It is good to remember all of the things that have improved. Some people only see the shortcomings and pretend that positive change never happens. The reparation arguments always drive me crazy, along with spreading the blame throughout generations and races. I once had a man tell me that my race was responsible for slavery, but my ancestors were busy farming in Poland and had nothing to do with it. Maybe, the Italians should give Poles reparations for the Romans enslaving my people. It gets ridiculous. We should remember history and try not to repeat the mistakes, but blame the people that were there at that time and place.
 
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Chesterton

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It's like the old Chinese curse: May you live in interesting times. I guess it's lucky that we can turn off at times and look from the outside in like an interested observer.

I was channel surfing just before going to bed on 9/11 (it happened in the late evening down here). And caught the first report, then watched it all unfold. It was obviously horrifying to watch, and I knew that thousands of people were dying. But there was a small part of me thinking 'This is so cool - I'm watching a major event in modern history in real time'.
Let the record reflect, and let it be duly noted, that Bradskii thinks 9/11 was "cool". smh smh smh

 
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durangodawood

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It is good to remember all of the things that have improved. Some people only see the shortcomings and pretend that positive change never happens. The reparation arguments always drive me crazy, along with spreading the blame throughout generations and races. I once had a man tell me that my race was responsible for slavery, but my ancestors were busy farming in Poland and had nothing to do with it. Maybe, the Italians should give Poles reparations for the Romans enslaving my people. It gets ridiculous. We should remember history and try not to repeat the mistakes, but blame the people that were there at that time and place.
Most of the reparations arguments I hear dont blame this ethnicity or that. They blame the USA as a nation - a collective we are all part of as citizens, which endures beyond the lifetime of any particular person.
 
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Jerry N.

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Most of the reparations arguments I hear dont blame this ethnicity or that. They blame the USA as a nation - a collective we are all part of as citizens, which endures beyond the lifetime of any particular person.
What about the people in the north who fought and died to end slavery?
 
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durangodawood

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What about the people in the north who fought and died to end slavery?
They are all dead. Those who live there now inherited this collective situation called the USA, or chose to move into it.
 
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Chesterton

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Most of the reparations arguments I hear dont blame this ethnicity or that. They blame the USA as a nation - a collective we are all part of as citizens, which endures beyond the lifetime of any particular person.
There's absolutely nothing stopping you from making reparations. Go for it.
 
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Jerry N.

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There's absolutely nothing stopping you from making reparations. Go for it.
How do they sort it out? There were black slave owners and black people who came to America after the Civil War.
 
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Hvizsgyak

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Well, I'm not being snide, but I can chew gum and pass gas at the same time.

I'm sitting on my deck on a glorious afternoon. Nothing but blue sky. Might go down the beach later and watch for some whales heading south. Decide what to have for dinner with my gorgeous wife. Might open a decent bottle of something. I can, and I am, enjoying all that and feeling extremely fortunate. But at the same time...I open up the news on my tablet and it's nothing but depressing. Gaza, Iran, the US, Ukraine...
I don't know if it was like this for you but during the Biden Administration I was joking with my wife that I was tired only seeing all these bubbly news stories on our local news all the time (this is when the economy here was crazily inflated). I told my wife, "Where is the news news (no real "top of the hour" headlines)?" Now, a full 50 minutes of the news hour is doom and gloom. Trump has gotten us into some undesirable situations but come on, at least give the viewer 20 mins of uplifting news (because you know it is out there).
 
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