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Communism- Socialism

Hentenza

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@RDKirk explains a lot of the regulatory issues that have been eroded since the 80s in the post above yours.

Inflation acts as a tax on the poor and middle class, by reducing their purchasing power as the real value of money decreases. The corporate class benefits especially as wages have been suppressed while inflation has been exacerbated.

Socially minded regulations that address the disparities in information and market impact, especially focusing on restoring the power of labor unions and other worker protections that have been eroded as market economies have become fetishized to the point that we're facing a new gilded age.
Sorry but I could never agree to increasing the power of labor unions. There is a lot of corruption among them. I witnessed their corruption personally during my professional career. What RD Kirk proposes seems a bit more reasonable.
 
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Fervent

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Sorry but I could never agree to increasing the power of labor unions. There is a lot of corruption among them. I witnessed their corruption personally during my professional career. What RD Kirk proposes seems a bit more reasonable.
There's certainly a deal of corruption among them, but unions are basically the reason the middle class grew in the 50s-80s because they remove some of the disparity in negotiations by putting more power in the hands of the workers rather than it all sitting on the employer side of the table. And objecting to that because some union officials are corrupt is rather strange, especially considering the massive corruption and exploitation from corporate lobbying.
 
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bèlla

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You must not be familiar with much of the backend. Bezos undercut smal businesses that sold on his platform until they were forced to sell to him, forced them to eat the losses while Amazon took the profits, and took advantage of multiple tax credit opportunities where cities paid them to build warehouses using public funds.

All cities offer breaks to lure businesses to their area. They certainly weren’t the first to do so and I’m sure you’ve seen your share of big names before they existed. Like Coca-Cola. Do you think they weren’t given a break?

They sold on Amazon for exposure to their customer base. I wouldn’t have done it. For the reasons cited and others. Most founders aren’t CEOs and have a habit of looking on the bright side and get excited about partnerships and related mistakes by novices. They’re thirsty and more trusting than I would be in similar circumstances. It’s easier to acquire something running well than build it from scratch. The best solution is avoidance.

I’ve seen similar behavior in fashion. They didn‘t want designers eliminating the middle man (stores) and selling directly online. They tried to gaslight them and threw a combo of shade and shame as well. But you have to look beyond that and consider the consequences of those alliances. The only one who benefitted was the store because of the buybacks.

You have to do your homework and it helps to have knowledgeable people around you who know the industry, the players and their reputation too. The acquisition model has been underway for a while. I don’t support illegal practices but if you dance with a shark you may get swallowed.

If I had that power, I'd certainly be open to it. I do believe there should be an upper limit(as a percentage of the median) for personal wealth.

You can’t cap someone’s talent. Some people are better at making money than others and if we’re honest the majority have no interest in doing the same or making the sacrifices to get there. As much as people like to argue this issue that’s really the linchpin. I’ve seen a lot of people starting out with ideas and enthusiasm. Within six months half will quit and only a tenth will remain in a year and that’s probably generous.

If you think that isn’t so look at YouTube. Most Americans have a device in their pocket that takes pictures and records videos. What percentage of them have created a channel to earn more income out of the whole? And the person you’re watching that’s monetized is probably making six figures by doing so. Based on their ad revenue, sponsorships and affiliate income. And if they have a product to sell the number may be higher. The majority could do the same but they don’t.

And our spending habits differ too. I put my money towards tools that enhance my knowledge and proficiency. I’m being instructed by an expert everyday and gaining access to others in related fields. The knowledge can be utilized for products and profits. That’s why we have a gap. We don’t need to look at billionaires. We can talk about ordinary people instead.

If your output is greater than your peers you’ll exceed them. That’s the advantage. One person is willing to do what another won’t. Five percent of the population sets goals every year. Only three percent accomplish them. What do you expect when that’s the case? It’s a recipe for inequality.

~bella
 
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bèlla

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Why? This is not about rich individuals. People can get rich in capitalist systems, hooray! (hopefully not by predatory practices) This is about formerly free markets being dominated by powerful corporate entities.

Actually it was. This is what was said.

But the callousness that exists when we're sending celebrities to the moon…

That’s why I asked who paid for the trip and no response was given. I figured it was a reference to Bezos and co.

~bella
 
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Fervent

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All cities offer breaks to lure businesses to their area. They certainly weren’t the first to do so and I’m sure you’ve seen your share of big names before they existed. Like Coca-Cola. Do you think they weren’t given a break?
Tax credits aren't breaks, they're payments. So you're ok with government money going to corporations, but oppose taking care of the citizenry with it?
They sold on Amazon for exposure to their customer base. I wouldn’t have done it. For the reasons cited and others. Most founders aren’t CEOs and have a habit of looking on the bright side and get excited about partnerships and related mistakes by novices. They’re thirsty and more trusting than I would be in similar circumstances. It’s easier to acquire something running well than build it from scratch. The best solution is avoidance.

I’ve seen similar behavior in fashion. They didn‘t want designers eliminating the middle man (stores) and selling directly online. They tried to gaslight them and threw a combo of shade and shame as well. But you have to look beyond that and consider the consequences of those alliances. The only one who benefitted was the store because of the buybacks.

You have to do your homework and it helps to have knowledgeable people around you who know the industry, the players and their reputation too. The acquisition model has been underway for a while. I don’t support illegal practices but if you dance with a shark you may get swallowed.
You don't seem to understand what I'm saying with that, he entered into contracts with small businesses so they would sell on his site and then he competed with them by offering their products at discounted price and forcing them to eat the losses until they sold their companies to him. It was totally exploitative and anticompetitive, and he did it by abusing contract law. Apparently you're ok with immoral predatory business practices, though.
You can’t cap someone’s talent. Some people are better at making money than others and if we’re honest the majority have no interest in doing the same or making the sacrifices to get there. As much as people like to argue this issue that’s really the linchpin. I’ve seen a lot of people starting out with ideas and enthusiasm. Within six months half will quit and only a tenth will remain in a year and that’s probably generous.

If you think that isn’t so look at YouTube. Most Americans have a device in their pocket that takes pictures and records videos. What percentage of them have created a channel to earn more income out of the whole? And the person you’re watching that’s monetized is probably making six figures by doing so. Based on their ad revenue, sponsorships and affiliate income. And if they have a product to sell the number may be higher. The majority could do the same but they don’t.

And our spending habits differ too. I put my money towards tools that enhance my knowledge and proficiency. I’m being instructed by an expert everyday and gaining access to others in related fields. The knowledge can be utilized for products and profits. That’s why we have a gap. We don’t need to look at billionaires. We can talk about ordinary people instead.

If your output is greater than your peers you’ll exceed them. That’s the advantage. One person is willing to do what another won’t. Five percent of the population sets goals every year. Only three percent accomplish them. What do you expect when that’s the case? It’s a recipe for inequality.

~bella
It's not a matter of talent, no one becomes wealthy on their own and just about everyone who becomes super wealthy is either a matter of generational wealth or employing unfair business practices and exploiting the legal system. The idea that we have some kind of meritocracy is a complete myth, and at a certain level the only way to achieve levels of wealth is by exploiting the masses.
 
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Fervent

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Actually it was. This is what was said.

But the callousness that exists when we're sending celebrities to the moon…

That’s why I asked who paid for the trip and no response was given. I figured it was a reference to Bezos and co.

~bella
That was a statement of the moral bankruptcy, where we accept people amassing wealth and create myths about self-made men while the reality is that the way they got there is directly related to the existence of poverty right alongside such egregious wealth.
 
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bèlla

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Sorry but I could never agree to increasing the power of labor unions. There is a lot of corruption among them. I witnessed their corruption personally during my professional career. What RD Kirk proposes seems a bit more reasonable.

I believe in a livable wage and supporting my employees practically, financially, etc. But I would never allow a union. If you want a healthy environment you have to build it and choose people who are equally invested. I don’t believe you need a union to do that.

~bella
 
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Fervent

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I believe in a livable wage and supporting my employees practically, financially, etc. But I would never allow a union. If you want a healthy environment you have to build it and choose people who are equally invested. I don’t believe you need a union to do that.

~bella
IF you employ enough people that them forming a union is a viable option, the only reason to resist is if you're intent on exploiting the unequal position that exists in negotiations between large scale employers and their employees who are likely living paycheck to paycheck.
 
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bèlla

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Tax credits aren't breaks, they're payments. So you're ok with government money going to corporations, but oppose taking care of the citizenry with it?

You can’t have it both ways. You want them to stay in America and enrich the communities. If they leave they’ll get similar offers elsewhere. And the officials didn’t get in office on their own you elected them.

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying with that, he entered into contracts with small businesses so they would sell on his site and then he competed with them by offering their products at discounted price and forcing them to eat the losses until they sold their companies to him. It was totally exploitative and anticompetitive, and he did it by abusing contract law. Apparently you're ok with immoral predatory business practices, though.

You can‘t excuse their culpability for getting involved. They made a decision and it was a bad one. That doesn’t make him right but they chose to sign the contract.

It's not a matter of talent, no one becomes wealthy on their own and just about everyone who becomes super wealthy is either a matter of generational wealth

What’s wrong with generational wealth?

~bella
 
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bèlla

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IF you employ enough people that them forming a union is a viable option, the only reason to resist is if you're intent on exploiting the unequal position that exists in negotiations between large scale employers and their employees who are likely living paycheck to paycheck.

The company is mine. If they want a union they can go elsewhere or start a business and do the same. I don’t have to accommodate them. You ignored what I said on the subject to spin a narrative. That’s why jobs are going overseas. No one has time for that foolishness.

~bella
 
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Fervent

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You can’t have it both ways. You want them to stay in America and enrich the communities. If they leave they’ll get similar offers elsewhere. And the officials didn’t get in office on their own you elected them.
So socialism is bad, until it's for multinational corporations?
You can‘t excuse their culpability for getting involved. They made a decision and it was a bad one. That doesn’t make him right but they chose to sign the contract.
Sure, but that doesn't absolve Bezos of abusing the law to enrich himself. Talk about victim blaming.
What’s wrong with generational wealth?

~bella
Generational wealth is nothing more than an unearned benefit, and more than likely can be traced back to past misdeeds and ill-gotten gains. At any rate, if we were aiming at a meritocracy we would be resetting the game every once in a while rather than letting a handful of oligarchs continually enriching themselves because their pedigree.
 
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Fervent

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The company is mine. If they want a union they can go elsewhere or start a business and do the same. I don’t have to accommodate them. You ignored what I said on the subject to spin a narrative. That’s why jobs are going overseas. No one has time for that foolishness.

~bella
If your company is large enough that a union is a real possibility, then the only reason to oppose organized labor is because you are looking ot exploit your employees by taking advantage of disproportionate bargaining power. I'm not spinning a narrative, I'm just pointing out the whole purpose of unions is to prevent employers from exploiting their employees through unequal access to market power.
 
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Hentenza

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IF you employ enough people that them forming a union is a viable option, the only reason to resist is if you're intent on exploiting the unequal position that exists in negotiations between large scale employers and their employees who are likely living paycheck to paycheck.
I worked as an industrial engineer for a few years. There was a medium size logistics company contract that I was working with during the time that their people decided to unionize. When negotiations began the teamster‘s reps decided to agree to a plethora of things that the people did not want because it would cost more than they would make in dues. The people did not get an increase in pay because they were already paid at the higher echelon of the area. They did not negotiate their 401k into the contract. The company had a great matching program which they lost and they were not able to add to it. The drivers had set routes weekly. They would be paid for 40 hours even if it took them less. You guessed it they lost that too. Thats just a few. This is just an example. I also worked a contract for Ford. What a mess.
 
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Fervent

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I worked as an industrial engineer for a few years. There was a medium size logistics company contract that I was working with during the time that their people decided to unionize. When negotiations began the teamster‘s reps decided to agree to a plethora of things that the people did not want because it would cost more than they would make in dues. The people did not get an increase in pay because they were already paid at the higher echelon of the area. They did not negotiate their 401k into the contract. The company had a great matching program which they lost and they were not able to add to it. The drivers had set routes weekly. They would be paid for 40 hours even if it took them less. You guessed it they lost that too. Thats just a few. This is just an example. I also worked a contract for Ford. What a mess.
That's quite the yarn. Though not sure what it's supposed to prove, exactly? It's not as if union reps have the power to finalize contracts without a vote of the membership, so how did they agree to things the members didn't want exactly?
 
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bèlla

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So socialism is bad, until it's for multinational corporations?

Of course not. You can take that position as long as you accept the consequences. Everything has a price.

Sure, but that doesn't absolve Bezos of abusing the law to enrich himself. Talk about victim blaming.

The bible doesn’t absolve us from bad decisions. We must accept responsibility for our mistakes. But if you’ve spent enough time in proverbs you’d choose differently.

Generational wealth is nothing more than an unearned benefit, and more than likely can be traced back to past misdeeds and ill-gotten gains. At any rate, if we were aiming at a meritocracy we would be resetting the game every once in a while rather than letting a handful of oligarchs continually enriching themselves because their pedigree.

What kind of nonsense is that? If someone wants to enrich their loved ones its no one‘s business. They don’t owe anyone an explanation or apology. People pass along money all the time. Everyone isn’t a spendthrift or living above their means or riddled with debt. Many live sensibly.

~bella
 
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Hentenza

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That's quite the yarn. Though not sure what it's supposed to prove, exactly? It's not as if union reps have the power to finalize contracts without a vote of the membership, so how did they agree to things the members didn't want exactly?
Yarn? Now you are being disingenuous. If you want to have a civil conversation you don’t insult the people you are talking to. What I stated happened and something that I witnessed. Also, the card that workers sign at the beginning of the process allows the union to legally represent the worker. The union negotiators do have the legal power to sign the contract. By the way, the union reps got the workers to vote for the contract by telling them that it was a temporary contract and further negotiations would happen.
 
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bèlla

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If your company is large enough that a union is a real possibility, then the only reason to oppose organized labor is because you are looking ot exploit your employees by taking advantage of disproportionate bargaining power. I'm not spinning a narrative

You don’t get to make that call for business owners and equating disinterest with exploitation is shameful. You have no proof at all. Just a head full of ideas and woke talking points.

~bella
 
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Fervent

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You don’t get to make that call for business owners and equating disinterest with exploitation is shameful. You have no proof at all. Just a head full of ideas and woke talking points.

~bella
What other reason could a business owner have in oppoing unions, other than an intention to take advantage of their employees disadvantaged bargaining position? Unions simplify the bargaining process by negotiating a single contract instead of having to negotiate with every single employee, so what possible reason besides an intent to exploit their employees could there possibly be to oppose them forming a union?
 
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CaDan

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The bible doesn’t absolve us from bad decisions. We must accept responsibility for our mistakes. But if you’ve spent enough time in proverbs you’d choose differently.
How about the Living God?
 
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