Salvation by grace through faith and our responsibility?

Brightfame52 said:

I have explained myself but you dont seem to comprehend, i cant help you with your comprehension abilty, above my pay grade

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You seem to just quote one verse out of context, and when I bring it in context you offer no explanation and simply quote it again.

Ipse dixit?

BBAS 64 said:

Good day, GKG

Gal 5:22 gives us some of the excepted effects of have of having God the Spirit. Really does not answer the question you suppose that we have to "ask" this passage does not address that question. Remeber that passage is a comparison:


Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Remember the book of Roman is written to a believers.

The question still remains how does a believer have God's Spirt in them. I believe the NC promise in Jer answers the question.

God writes His law on their hearts, it there for a purpose he becomes our God as a result of His own work, thus he is the cause of us being His people and Him being out God.

Jer 31:33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

God writes we become his own he becomes pours and he remembers our sins no more.

We have to ask nothing .... God does ( the removing, the giving, and the putting) and it is so.

He puts His spirit in us and causes us to obey his rules that is the purpose of what he does. Those purpose can not be thawted.


Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

In Him,

Bill

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James 4:2-3 NKJV
2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and [a]war. [b]Yet you do not have because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

How were you and your friends born again? You never asked for salvation?

Not asking is irresponsible, then fewer are saved. Our parents asked for our salvation, our forefathers asked for revival, even cried out. St Monica asked for Augustine's, her son's salvation and he became a bishop.

You quote God's promises of giving, if you want them, you must ask for them.

Sons ask their fathers.

We pray, come Holy Spirit. And you Kingdom come.

It may be that another asks for you. At church intercession results in you receiving.

Luke 11 NKJV
1Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.”

2So He said to them, “When you pray, say:

Our[a] Father Luke 11 NKJVin heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
Your kingdom come.
[c]Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
3Give us day by day our daily bread.
4And forgive us our sins,
For we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us.
And do not lead us into temptation,
[d]But deliver us from the evil one.”

A Friend Comes at Midnight​

5And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.

Keep Asking, Seeking, Knocking​

9“So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11If a son asks for [e]bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

So ask for the Father to give you the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name and surrender to the indwelling presence for the fruit. Even ask for the grace of surrender.

Spiritual death is first described with Adam and Eve after eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were not responding obediently to God, but God began to repair it. Life towards God needs God to be present and available. Or we only have our consciences to guide us.

Spiritual death means that the inner self is not living towards God as in John 1:1-4 none of the light of life is at work inside. They, Adam and Eve could hear God in the evening. But they did not walk with Him, from shame and fear. There was a major difference, a conflict of interest, and they feared God the wrong way and didn't show love. They attempted to right themselves independently. But they came to accept the skins God gave them. And in the end may have come to paradise. This was before the blood of Christ and without God's fire, or oil...

BBAS 64 said:

Good day, GKG

Good question..

We heard the Gospel we were commanded to believe and repent.

And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.

God's work though the Gospel as the instrumental cause put His Spirit in us and caused us to obey His commands.
The effect of that (effective and purposeful) cause we believed and repented just as He intended.


God is the cause we are the effected..

No more wicked heart it is gone we have a new one that God gave us. With that new heart we have new desires that inform our soul and we have all the information that we need to desire God and reach for him he alone is highest value. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and we repent. We love the light we once hated, and hate the darkness we once loved, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit the born again work of God achieves that which he purposes salvation is of the Lord.

We are granted both Faith, and repentance from God he adopts us and we are His eternally.


So I ask the same "How were you and your friends born again?"

In HIm,

Bill

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As a young man, with a difficult life past, I had a heavy conscience, I was failing in life and hated my life. I wanted love, wisdom... I had a kind of honour for God. I was a weak Catholic. My gran was praying for me, and an uncle, my dad and the clergy in the protestants he fellowshipped with were praying for me. I did not attend church unless pushed a lot. My father was disciplining me to aim up, think positive, listen to his philosopher on tape, for wisdom.

I was given medication by a Dr, and the side effects were strong. I came to stay a while with my grand parents for clearer thought to study in. I was on school holidays. At a point I thought I was going die from the side effects and turned to God sharply and in terror. I prayed God would not let me die. I prayed the Our Father, I stopped the meds. I turned in fear of God from my sins but could not confess from the mess and confusion. I disciplined my mind and used my dad's positive thinking, "discipline, diligence, determination"... I disciplined my body.

I prayed with my gran, the Rosary. I looked into objective reality and chose to overcome. After several days, at about midday I was in my door way and knew Jesus was there in Spirit and I fell to my knees. It was as if he passed His hand through my inner self, and my conscience was cleared and my heart was clean, off a foul weight of guilt and stood up much happier. I felt closer to nature and more at home.

I continued to pray and attended church and then youth group at church. But erred by continuing to study. I heard God say to me that He wanted to come into my heart. But from mass I thought myself unworthy and asked for an angel instead. I read about being born again, as my dad took me to his church and they gave me booklets. I learned I needed to be born again but only after seeking for ten years and attending more than fifty alter calls, with prayers for help, to open my heart, and other instructions, I received the Holy Spirit and began to produce gentleness. My aim had been to produce love and overcome sin.

At that time my friends were Catholic, positive thinking, the Rosary and Mary's appearances moved one of them. Another responded to intercession and God's voice.

Later on, revival winds moved some, to repent. I recall one young man saw a vision of himself as ego-centric... and he repented. There were alter calls. We learned to pray in reverence.

At my Catholic church there was preaching on Jesus' blood and I once there received it. Both repentance and the blood I received at my homes. My priest would often say, "you have not, because you ask not." And "read your Bible."

Jesus' blood led me to continue on to be born again. I also had a taste of living water refreshing me. The latter was in the Taize community, singing hymns and watching the cross.

Then there was a big revival, the answer to the prayers of the ancestral Christians. People would just come to it and be filled or healed. Promises came from the gifts of the Spirit and I was praying and asking at home. Asking for love, for change.

I was born again ten years after I repented with the laying on of hands and I fell to the ground.

BBAS 64 said:

Good day, GKG

Your appeal to consciences is useless:

The unregenerate unbelieving man's mind and conscience is:

To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.

The word defiled here twice in 1 century was used to describe rotting heaps of garbage;

Vines:

Defile, Defilement:

primarily, "to stain, to tinge or dye with another color," as in the staining of a glass, hence, "to pollute, contaminate, soil, defile," is used
(a) of "ceremonial defilement," Jhn 18:28; so in the Sept., in Lev 22:5, 8; Num 19:13, 20 etc.;

(b) of "moral defilement," Tts 1:15 (twice); Hbr 12:15, "of moral and physical defilement," Jud 1:8

So unregenerate unbelieving man is hopeless in and of him self.

Heart full of wickedness
Mind evil all the time.
Their conscience is defiled
They are dead
They are unable to come to Christ
The devil is their father, they can not hear God's word

They in and of themselves are with out hope:"

But God

He adopts his children
He gives them to Christ
He removes their heart of stone
He gives them a heart of flesh
He puts His Spirit in them
He causes them to walk in His ways, and obey his statues
He makes them His own, and he becomes their God
He grants them Faith
He grants them repentance
He declares them Just
Christ dies for them
Christ turns away the just Wrath of God against them
Christ does the will of the Father and raises them up on the last day
Christ loses none of them
Christ mediates peace between them and God
Christ is their righteousness
Christ transfers them from the darkness to light
Christ intercedes on their behalf
Christ is their High priest
Christ knows them, and calls them


Salvation is of the Lord!

In Him,

Bill

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Romans 2:12-16 NKJV
12For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13(for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

Yes I believe God intercedes for us, grants us faith some from in utero. And he gives us repentance. By circumstances, intercessions, as relief to a life one hates. For each person, it can be unique. My youth priest was born again in a great out pouring of Jesus' powerful blood. Sometimes being healed will grip the convictions of a young man or woman and they seek God who first calls them.

Some persons have an NDE and see a fearful darkness, others see the light and the warmth of love changes them.

We are warned that we can be lost in Hebrews 6:6 or simply Hebrews 6 and 10.

BBAS 64 said:

Good day,GKG

The passage in Roman deals with regenerate Gentiles that have not "the law.

Where do they get the laws?

From God He writes His law on thier hearts the result is they become Gods people and he remembers their sins no more:

Hebrews 8:10–12

[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
[11] And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
[12] For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more.” (ESV)

And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of uthe living God, not on vtablets of stone but on wtablets of xhuman hearts.1

Titus clearly deals with unregenerate man.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.

As to the warning passage I would recommend:

I love the guide rail that these passages provide Gods people.

Jesus is really clear in John 6- All the father give me come to me and all I raise them up on the last day. I loose none given to me.

Good Shepard do not lose sheep and Jesus is the good Shepard.

In Him,

Bill




In Him,

Bill

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I'll see if I can find the opportunity to listen to the vids.

I'd say Romans 2:12-16 is not about Jews or gentile converts. Gentile converts have the law. From hearing or reading the Torah and not by "nature". Sane people by nature have understanding.

BBAS 64 said:

Good day,GKG

The passage in Roman deals with regenerate Gentiles that have not "the law.

Where do they get the laws?

From God He writes His law on thier hearts the result is they become Gods people and he remembers their sins no more:

Hebrews 8:10–12

[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
[11] And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor
and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’
for they shall all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
[12] For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more.” (ESV)

And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of uthe living God, not on vtablets of stone but on wtablets of xhuman hearts.1

Titus clearly deals with unregenerate man.

To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.

As to the warning passage I would recommend:

I love the guide rail that these passages provide Gods people.

Jesus is really clear in John 6- All the father give me come to me and all I raise them up on the last day. I loose none given to me.

Good Shepard do not lose sheep and Jesus is the good Shepard.

In Him,

Bill




In Him,

Bill

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From the videos Bill, thanks, I see the idea that we must take warning and there are some who were among John who fell away, and were considered never true believers after all.

Hebrews 6 is in the time of the first Pentecost, a mighty move of God in which Acts tells us of tongues of fire and known languages, but much more was not mentioned until Hebrews 6 which itself is a summary. Only in a Pentecost Revival can one commit the sin in this life. Receiving is not always easy. There is a need for responsible ministers and recipients, even the singers and musicians should be in order.