• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Communism- Socialism

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
5,947
2,503
45
San jacinto
✟197,118.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That is a change that somehow happened in the early 1900s. The very wealthy changed their appearance from robber barons to social benefactors. I don't know why or how (and in many ways it was only a matter of appearance).

But that went away during the 1980s, the "greed is good" era, the Reagan era, the "Wolf of Wall Street" era. New financial instruments were created that were as effective at enabling mega-corporations to engulf smaller businesses as trusts had been in the robber baron era.
A large part of that was Carnegie finding religion and trying to make amends for his previous ruthlessness, as well as the rise of workers movements making it clear the rich could only sustain their power if they at least made a show of social conscience. Seems today the populist momentum is with the oligarchs, though. Personally, I'd rather bite the hand than lick the boot.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,240
18,965
Colorado
✟522,817.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
One word labels are too vague.
Thread needs obligatory socialism meme....

socialism.png
 
Upvote 0

CaDan

I remember orange CF
Site Supporter
Jan 30, 2004
23,297
2,829
The Society of the Spectacle
✟109,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Have you ever lived under communism?
Picture Leon Trotsky bursting through a wall like Kool-Aid Man screaming, "But that was just state capitalism in a deformed worker's state!"
kool trot.jpeg
 
Upvote 0

CaDan

I remember orange CF
Site Supporter
Jan 30, 2004
23,297
2,829
The Society of the Spectacle
✟109,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Of course, that is an ideal rarely achieved but the best examples of a classical free markets in operation today are probably the commodities exchanges, which are in fact heavily regulated
And even then, only about 5% of the trades are actually completed with goods changing hands. The rest (95%) are various speculative transactions.
 
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
22,379
18,918
USA
✟1,071,966.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
What's odd to me is the people most opposed to restoring the wealth of the people from those who have unjustly hoarded it

How was their wealth unjustly hoarded? Do you have examples?

~bella
 
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
5,947
2,503
45
San jacinto
✟197,118.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How was their wealth unjustly hoarded? Do you have examples?

~bella
It happens through economic tools like inflation, where the wealth of the nation is funnelled into the hands of an ever shrinking group of executives. Productivity has gone through the roof, but wages have been suppressed despite increases in living costs. A good example I find is automotive repair shops, which in the 80s roughly split their rates 50/50 with the mechanics. So if the shop charged $40, $20 of that went to the mechanic. Today, the shops are charging upwards of $100 for flag hours but the mechanics are still only seeing about $20 of that if they're lucky. Same with construction, which used to be a job that paid relatively well but now is paying less than it did in the 80s.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,240
18,965
Colorado
✟522,817.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Such as? Don’t stop there. ;-)

~bella
Gosh theres a whole list, and some are pretty huge.

Transport infrastructure like roads and bridges.
Education for all kids through grade 12.
A law and justice system.
Emergency services.
A common defense.
A basic rock bottom "safety net"

Those are just a few. I could probably come up with a bunch more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bèlla
Upvote 0

CaDan

I remember orange CF
Site Supporter
Jan 30, 2004
23,297
2,829
The Society of the Spectacle
✟109,081.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
How was their wealth unjustly hoarded? Do you have examples?

~bella
My sister, I draw your attention to the words of St. Basil the Great in his homily on Luke 12:18 "I Will Pull Down My Barns":

“But whom do I treat unjustly,” you say, “by keeping what is my own?” Tell me, what is your own? What did you bring into this life? From where did you receive it? It is as if someone were to take the first seat in the theater, then bar everyone else from attending, so that one person alone enjoys what is offered for the benefit of all in common — this is what the rich do. They seize common goods before others have the opportunity, then claim them as their own by right of preemption. For if we all took only what was necessary to satisfy our own needs, giving the rest to those who lack, no one would be rich, no one would be poor, and no one would be in need.​
Did you not come forth naked from the womb, and will you not return naked to the earth? Where then did you obtain your belongings? If you say that you acquired them by chance, then you deny God, since you neither recognize your Creator, nor are you grateful to the One who gave these things to you.​
But if you acknowledge that they were given to you by God, then tell me, for what purpose did you receive them? Is God unjust, when He distributes to us unequally the things that are necessary for life? Why then are you wealthy while another is poor? Why else, but so that you might receive the reward of benevolence and faithful stewardship, while the poor are honored for patient endurance in their struggles? But you, stuffing everything into the bottomless pockets of your greed, assume that you wrong no one; yet how many do you in fact dispossess?​
Who are the greedy? Those who are not satisfied with what suffices for their own needs. Who are the robbers? Those who take for themselves what rightfully belongs to everyone. And you, are you not greedy? Are you not a robber? The things you received in trust as a stewardship, have you not appropriated them for yourself? Is not the person who strips another of clothing called a thief? And those who do not clothe the naked when they have the power to do so, should they not be called the same? The bread you are holding back is for the hungry, the clothes you keep put away are for the naked, the shoes that are rotting away with disuse are for those who have none, the silver you keep buried in the earth is for the needy. You are thus guilty of injustice toward as many as you might have aided, and did not.
 
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
22,379
18,918
USA
✟1,071,966.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
If people want real change, change that endures, it's to everyone's advantage to appeal to the hearts and minds of the rich. If that can be done, if the rich can find value in generosity, everybody wins.

The wealthy support the causes they value and encourage their friends to do likewise. There’s numerous organizations which never fall short. The money you want for taxes is earmarked for other things. Philanthropy isn’t a collective. It’s pretty specific and that’s your focus. That’s why there‘s charities for different things. No one can solve every problem and focusing on a handful has a greater impact.

Everyone isn’t passionate about housing, healthcare or education. Many issues are funded because they’re personal. The individual, a loved one or friend had a problem and they‘re backing the research, cure or services. We have a family friend who was a teacher and dedicated her social security payments to a scholarship she founded with her husband and he did the same. They didn’t need the money and had a specific idea in mind for those resources. There’s a lot of things happening behind the scenes the majority aren‘t aware of.

~bella
 
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
22,379
18,918
USA
✟1,071,966.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Gosh theres a whole list, and some are pretty huge.

Transport infrastructure like roads and bridges.
Education for all kids through grade 12.
A law and justice system.
Emergency services.
A common defense.
A basic rock bottom "safety net"

Those are just a few. I could probably come up with a bunch more.

What portion of the list is lacking from your perspective?

~bella
 
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
22,379
18,918
USA
✟1,071,966.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
My sister, I draw your attention to the words of St. Basil the Great in his homily on Luke 12:18 "I Will Pull Down My Barns":

With all due respect I don’t follow them. But I appreciate the scripture.

~bella
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

BCP1928

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2024
8,148
4,106
82
Goldsboro NC
✟254,855.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
There is no truth in your characterization of Trump!
Right. It's called something different in right-wing autocratic economies--"socially disciplined commodification of labor" or something like that. But an autocratic economy is an autocratic economy, whether it is of the left or of the right there is little difference.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Mar 27, 2007
34,897
4,070
On the bus to Heaven
✟80,052.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
  • Agree
Reactions: Vambram
Upvote 0

durangodawood

re Member
Aug 28, 2007
27,240
18,965
Colorado
✟522,817.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
What portion of the list is lacking from your perspective?

~bella
Depends how we're tabulating it. By cost? By number of line items? I dont even know quite where to start with answering that. I could probable expand "basic safety net" into a dozen or so different things, for instance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bèlla
Upvote 0

bèlla

❤️
Site Supporter
Jan 16, 2019
22,379
18,918
USA
✟1,071,966.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
In Relationship
Depends how we're tabulating it. By cost? By number of line items? I dont even know quite where to start with answering that. I could probable expand "basic safety net" into a dozen or so different things, for instance.

Answer as you wish. ;-)

~bella
 
Upvote 0