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Trump threatens to cut Calif.’s federal funds if trans athletes ‘illegally’ compete in women’s events

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RileyG

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I'm sure there are a lot of people not content that certain people have rights. Doesn't mean they get to deny them.

-- A2SG, not a big fan of prejudice, to be honest.......
Nope. I don’t buy that.

It’s not about rights nor is it about prejudice.

It’s about protecting women and girls.
 
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Bradskii

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You won't see what you refuse to see.
Well, I'm looking. And this is what I see: Statistics Show Exactly How Many Times Trans People Have Attacked You in Bathrooms

'The Advocate noted the same glaring fact last month regarding Texas' bathroom legislation: "There has never been a verifiable reported instance of a trans person harassing a cisgender person, nor have there been any confirmed reports of male predators 'pretending' to be transgender to gain access to women's spaces and commit crimes against them."

Alachua County Crisis Center victims advocate Ashley Flattery told the Miami Herald, "This kind of idea that somebody is going to be assaulted in the bathroom by someone, and claim they have the right to be there because they are trans, is imaginary."

For example, Florida State Representative Frank Artiles (R), who sponsored the Single Sex Public Facilities bill (HB 583), did not provide any evidence that a trans person has ever attacked cisgender (non-transgender) people in public restrooms when pressed by BuzzFeed in February. On his blog, Artiles wrote that this bill is a "preventative" measure and was not spurred by a specific incident."

Now, unless you have some information that directly contradicts what I can find then please present it. Otherwise the matter is settled. There is no problem.
 
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RileyG

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See above. And comment accordingly.
I’m aware. Some women aren’t comfortable sharing a restroom with a biological male. It is what it is.
 
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A2SG

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Nope. I don’t buy that.

It’s not about rights nor is it about prejudice.

It’s about protecting women and girls.
Show me how. Please let me know how many trans people have attacked women and girls in public bathrooms. Give me evidence that this is an actual, legitimate threat and then maybe I can take the claim seriously.

Because, as far as I can tell, it ain't happening.

What seems to be happening, instead, is that some people imagine that cis men are dressing up as women for the sole purpose of attacking women in the bathroom, and then pretending to be trans when caught. Putting aside how utterly absurd this is, as an idea, not to mention impractical, there seems to be zero evidence any such event has ever occurred, anywhere.

But hey, if you disagree, feel free to prove me wrong.

-- A2SG, I've put this question out there before, but rather than evidence, I get excuses....
 
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RileyG

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Show me how. Please let me know how many trans people have attacked women and girls in public bathrooms. Give me evidence that this is an actual, legitimate threat and then maybe I can take the claim seriously.

Because, as far as I can tell, it ain't happening.

What seems to be happening, instead, is that some people imagine that cis men are dressing up as women for the sole purpose of attacking women in the bathroom, and then pretending to be trans when caught. Putting aside how utterly absurd this is, as an idea, not to mention impractical, there seems to be zero evidence any such event has ever occurred, anywhere.

But hey, if you disagree, feel free to prove me wrong.

-- A2SG, I've put this question out there before, but rather than evidence, I get excuses....
It’s about respect for others and their own private spaces. Look up Lily (Nick) Tino. Too vile to post here, but that’s a wonderful example.
 
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A2SG

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I’m aware. Some women aren’t comfortable sharing a restroom with a biological male. It is what it is.
So we're back to prejudice because, as Bradskii demonstrated, there does not seem to be an actual threat.

-- A2SG, and no one seems able to show otherwise....
 
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RileyG

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So we're back to prejudice because, as Bradskii demonstrated, there does not seem to be an actual threat.

-- A2SG, and no one seems able to show otherwise....
It’s not prejudice. Just because some people believe it’s wrong or are uncomfortable with it doesn’t make it prejudice.

Men don’t belong in woman only spaces because they are male, not female.
 
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A2SG

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It’s about respect for others and their own private spaces.
Unless you're trans. Then no respect for you!

Look up Lily (Nick) Tino. Too vile to post here, but that’s a wonderful example.
A wonderful example of what, exactly? Of someone posting selfies without obtaining permission for people who are standing in the background? I'll grant you, it's dodgy legally, but I don't how the photo taker posed any threat to those other people in the background of her photo.

I'll grant you, she wasn't exactly respectful to those other people...but I fail to see how disallowing ALL trans people from the bathroom they choose is gonna fix this. All that might change is that the people in the background of her selfie would be men. Same disrespect, same lack of threat.

-- A2SG, seriously, is that the best example you could find?
 
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RileyG

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Unless you're trans. Then no respect for you!


A wonderful example of what, exactly? Of someone posting selfies without obtaining permission for people who are standing in the background? I'll grant you, it's dodgy legally, but I don't how the photo taker posed any threat to those other people in the background of her photo.

I'll grant you, she wasn't exactly respectful to those other people...but I fail to see how disallowing ALL trans people from the bathroom they choose is gonna fix this. All that might change is that the people in the background of her selfie would be men. Same disrespect, same lack of threat.

-- A2SG, seriously, is that the best example you could find?
He didn’t get permission which is why people are suing. It’s just one example on top of my head.

They have a right to live as they want, but if others feel they don’t want to share their private spaces with them, they need to understand and respect that.
 
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A2SG

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It’s not prejudice. Just because some people believe it’s wrong or are uncomfortable with it doesn’t make it prejudice.
That's the very definition of prejudice: an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

Men don’t belong in woman only spaces because they are male, not female.
Only if you check their genitals. If a trans woman is dressing according to her gender, chances are you won't be able to tell the difference.

-- A2SG, personally, I have no desire or need to check anyone else's genitalia....but that's just me....
 
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RileyG

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That's the very definition of prejudice: an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.


Only if you check their genitals. If a trans woman is dressing according to her gender, chances are you won't be able to tell the difference.

-- A2SG, personally, I have no desire or need to check anyone else's genitalia....but that's just me....
So? I don’t have to like it or think it’s a moral way to live. Their lifestyle, their choice. I can think they are harming themselves and have no right to force their agenda onto others.

I see it as a mental health issue. But that’s a different can of worms.
 
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A2SG

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He didn’t get permission which is why people are suing. It’s just one example on top of my head.
I know. I acknowledged that. And then I noted how disallowing her from using the women's room wouldn't fix that particular problem.

They have a right to live as they want, but if others feel they don’t want to share their private spaces with them, they need to understand and respect that.
So trans people need to understand and respect the prejudice of others, but those who are prejudging trans people don't need to respect or understand them? Wow, that's one sided.

-- A2SG, and not very respectful or understanding, ya ask me....
 
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A2SG

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So? I don’t have to like it or think it’s a moral way to live.
Can't recall anyone saying you did.

Their lifestyle, their choice. I can think they are harming themselves and have no right to force their agenda onto others.
But those who are prejudiced against trans people DO have the right to force their agenda onto trans people? That seem fair to you?

I see it as a mental health issue. But that’s a different can of worms.
Well, since you're a mental health professional who has tons of clinical experience with this issue, I'll defer to your expertise.

-- A2SG, though, I could refer to other experienced mental health professionals who disagree with your assessment....
 
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RileyG

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I know. I acknowledged that. And then I noted how disallowing her from using the women's room wouldn't fix that particular problem.


So trans people need to understand and respect the prejudice of others, but those who are prejudging trans people don't need to respect or understand them? Wow, that's one sided.

-- A2SG, and not very respectful or understanding, ya ask me....
Again. It’s about respecting other people’s boundaries. Their feelings or so called identity don’t trump the rights of others.
 
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RileyG

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Can't recall anyone saying you did.


But those who are prejudiced against trans people DO have the right to force their agenda onto trans people? That seem fair to you?


Well, since you're a mental health professional who has tons of clinical experience with this issue, I'll defer to your expertise.

-- A2SG, though, I could refer to other experienced mental health professionals who disagree with your assessment....
I never said I was a mental health professional, other than this issue is related to mental health.

And yes, asking biological men to stay out of women only spaces is very much respecting the rights of REAL women and girls, from my perspective.
 
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A2SG

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Again. It’s about respecting other people’s boundaries. Their feelings or so called identity don’t trump the rights of others.
And how would denying her the use of a women's room make her respect other people's boundaries, exactly? If she took a selfie on the street and didn't ask permission of anyone behind her, would you advocate for disallowing her access to any public areas?

I never said I was a mental health professional, other than this issue is related to mental health.
Well, if you aren't a mental health professional, I'd suggest you ask actual mental health professionals about their views on the issue. The vast majority do not agree with your assessment, just so you know.

But, I'm sure you can find an occasional Dr. Nick out there, if you wanted to.

And yes, asking biological men to stay out of women only spaces is very much respecting the rights of REAL women and girls, from my perspective.
So no respect for the rights of trans women, then? What have they done to lose their inalienable rights, exactly?

-- A2SG, we do have due process for that kinda thing....well, we used to....
 
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Bradskii

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I’m aware. Some women aren’t comfortable sharing a restroom with a biological male. It is what it is.
They don't know. THAT is the point. The woman standing at the mirror doing her lipstick or chatting to her friends...it's a woman. Unless you want to do a genital check? Of course you don't. So you don't know either. And it's somewhat presumptuous of you to declare what women want, what they are comfortable with when there has been ZERO evidence that any problem exists whatsoever.

You know what I could do? Ask all the women I know "Y'know that last time you were in the restroom with a transwoman..." And I won't get any further. They will immediately ask 'No, hang on. Wait. When was this supposed to have happened?'

Now Sydney is a pretty liberal city so I can virtually guarantee that it has happened. But none of them have mentioned any worries whatsoever. It's not even a topic of conversation.
 
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ralliann

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Nope. I don’t buy that.

It’s not about rights nor is it about prejudice.

It’s about protecting women and girls.
It's a recycle here. The same argument repeats. We just need to go to private toilets. If these get their way legally that's how it will have to be.
 
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Bradskii

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It's a recycle here. The same argument repeats. We just need to go to private toilets.
For a problem you seem to have difficulty showing exists. And if bars and restaurants and clubs are going to be asked to rip out their bathrooms and rebuild at quite an horrendous cost then they're going to know what the problem is. What would you have to show them?

My guess is the same as you're showing us right now. Nothing. So here's a heads up. It's not going to happen.
 
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