What happens when a person believes the gospel message?

fli · May 25, 2025

One of 2 reactions happen when a person hears the gospel message which is:

“Jesus, the son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected for our justification. If you believe in Him you have eternal life. “

A common reaction is:” I don't care.” If that is the response nothing happens.

Another reaction: If the message gives them hope they believe. The hope is by believing in Jesus they will get into heaven. Hope in Jesus is the Key to salvation.

Colossians 1:4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of your love for all the saints; 5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel, NKJV

The first thing is saving faith in Jesus is created in the believing person. Because faith comes from our hope, then hope in Jesus is what opens the door to our heart for the Holy Spirit. All believers have an encounter with Jesus after they have hope in Jesus. His Spirit comes into their heart and gives gifts to them.

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. NKJV\

With the Spirit of Jesus in the heart of believers they have have the gift of Godly love. Jesus has given believers the three greatest gifts. As with any gift the believer must choose to use the gifts of God. Unless the believer uses them they will never grow to their potential.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. NKJV

Because of the believers hope in Jesus. the Spirit of Jesus enters the believer to create saving faith. Jesus is the substance of the believers hope and His Spirit in them is their ticket into heaven.

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. NKJV

Having believed the believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. They are sealed with the Spirit guaranteeing their inheritance in heaven. The reason people lose salvation is because the person loses their hope in Jesus and/or they lose their love for Jesus. If people love the world more than they love Jesus their hope will be in worldly pleasures. Without hope in Jesus they do not have saving faith. Jesus does not leave them, Jesus has not changed and His promises have not changed, they choose to leave Jesus.

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: NKJV

Being born of the Spirit of God believers have the right to become a child of God.

John 12:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain. NKJV

Jesus' Spirit in them causes the believer to be born of the Spirit. Now with the 3 greatest gifts the person has been equipped to make it to heaven. However, if the person does not learn to rely on the gifts, the flesh can cause the person to rely on their own resources when trials come and thereby lose salvation.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying,"Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." NKJV

In addition to the gifts already cited God has granted believers repentance of sins to the point of eternal life. God gives all believers time to listen and learn from Jesus. Because this gift is to the point of eternal life a person can make it to heaven without doing one work for their salvation.

1 Corinthians 2:16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. NKJV

All believers now have the mind of Christ to guide them through sanctification. Romans 8 God looks at us as being dead and dead people cannot sin so He does not impute sin to us as long as we stay in the Spirit. Because God has granted repentance, everyone will stay in the Spirit until the point of eternal life.

The first thing Jesus works on is to change our carnal mind to a spiritual mind. A spiritual mind knows that Gods laws are holy, just and good. If Jesus succeeds then our mind agrees with our heart where Jesus' Spirit resides. Jeremiah 31:31-33 Once our mind agrees with our heart we have a spiritual mind and will follow Jesus in discipline.

In addition to the already named gifts God will give them additional gifts to be used for building and strengthening the Church.

Once we accept discipline we have reached the point of eternal life. Our faith, love and hope has brought us to this point, we have not repented of one sin. However, our mind has had a complete turnaround.

There are people whom Jesus could not change their mind. These people refuse to be disciplined and become illegitimate children without an inheritance in heaven.

2 Tim 2:13 there are also those who agree with Jesus but do not have the faith to face withdrawal from sin. Jesus cannot deny them and puts them to death thereby putting their sins death (1Cor 11:20-30).

Romans 8:13b but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. NKJV

If a believer follows the commands of the Spirit they should be able to identify a/some sin(s) of the flesh the Spirit has put to death. After this believers need to be obeying His voice and the commandments in 1 John3:21-23.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

We are expected to act as a child of God. This means we repent of sins and do the good works we were created for. Those things are pleasing in His sight as well as our obedience to His voice as He convicts us of those things which are not pleasing in His sight. Sanctification is a life long process.

All glory be to Jesus for having done everything that is needed for humans to become children of God. Praise God and thank God for Jesus and all the blessings God has given to the world.

d taylor · May 25, 2025

_

Well stating it the way you stated it (What happens when a person believes the gospel message?) can be miss leading. As this depend what the gospel message people are being given. Because many gospel messages today deliver a works based message.

But here is what happens when a person believes in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. They immediately become a permanent born again child of God. That has crossed over from death to life and will not come into judgment.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Now this child of God has the ability to leave the world behind and to grow as a born again believer and really experience God's love and grace.
Or they can fall back into the world and not experience the new life God has given them. Still being troubled and entangled in the sins of the world, and may even experience God's discipline, earthly judgment or die an early life because of sin they are caught in.

fli · May 26, 2025

d taylor said:
_

Well stating it the way you stated it (What happens when a person believes the gospel message?) can be miss leading. As this depend what the gospel message people are being given. Because many gospel messages today deliver a works based message.

I stated the gospel message in the post. Apparently you overlooked it. I will state it again to see if it meets with your definition of a free gift gospel message.

“Jesus, the Son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected for our justification. If you believe in Him you have eternal life. “

Notice it states that Jesus is the Son of God died for our sins. That He was resurrected for our justification. That if you believe in Him you have eternal life. Once a person is born from above, Jesus will be in them and they are in Jesus. Jesus accepts anyone that believes the Gospel message. Not everyone that accepts the gospel message will agree to be disciplined.

d taylor said:
But here is what happens when a person believes in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. They immediately become a permanent born again child of God. That has crossed over from death to life and will not come into judgment.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Now this child of God has the ability to leave the world behind and to grow as a born again believer and really experience God's love and grace.
Or they can fall back into the world and not experience the new life God has given them. Still being troubled and entangled in the sins of the world, and may even experience God's discipline, earthly judgment or die an early life because of sin they are caught in.

2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV

Paul states that there are some who come to Him that later deny Him.

Colossians 1:211 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. NKJV

In the above Paul warns us we are reconciled through His body if we do not lose the hope we have in Jesus.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. NKJV

John wrote that we must continue to believe in the name of Jesus. That is the third witness that we can lose salvation.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NKJV

John wrote those who keep Jesus' commandments abides in Him.

1 John 3:21 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

If everyone that came to Him continued to believe in Him, there would be no need to give us a commandment to continue to believe in Him. Not everyone who believes in Jesus and is saved will continue to believe in Him. If they quit believing in Him they have committed the sin leading to death.

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. NKJV

Notice both types of sin leads to death. The sin not leading to death leads to physical death, which if we intercede to the Father, He can give the brother life. The sin leading to death is leading to eternal death and no one can be prayed into salvation

d taylor · May 26, 2025

fli said:
I stated the gospel message in the post. Apparently you overlooked it. I will state it again to see if it meets with your definition of a free gift gospel message.

“Jesus, the Son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected for our justification. If you believe in Him you have eternal life. “

Notice it states that Jesus is the Son of God died for our sins. That He was resurrected for our justification. That if you believe in Him you have eternal life. Once a person is born from above, Jesus will be in them and they are in Jesus. Jesus accepts anyone that believes the Gospel message. Not everyone that accepts the gospel message will agree to be disciplined.

2 Timothy 2:11 This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him, We shall also live with Him. 12 If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 13 If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. NKJV

Paul states that there are some who come to Him that later deny Him.

Colossians 1:211 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight — 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. NKJV

In the above Paul warns us we are reconciled through His body if we do not lose the hope we have in Jesus.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. NKJV

John wrote that we must continue to believe in the name of Jesus. That is the third witness that we can lose salvation.

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NKJV

John wrote those who keep Jesus' commandments abides in Him.

1 John 3:21 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

If everyone that came to Him continued to believe in Him, there would be no need to give us a commandment to continue to believe in Him. Not everyone who believes in Jesus and is saved will continue to believe in Him. If they quit believing in Him they have committed the sin leading to death.

1 John 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. NKJV

Notice both types of sin leads to death. The sin not leading to death leads to physical death, which if we intercede to the Father, He can give the brother life. The sin leading to death is leading to eternal death and no one can be prayed into salvation

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Yes i see what you wrote as stating a free gift message

Well though people receive God's free gift of Eternal Life way before Jesus became flesh, died and was resurrected. Why because these people believed in The Person Jesus for eternal life.

So I like the way Jesus states it in John 11 also in John 20

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
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And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

I personally believe the death on the cross and resurrection should point a person to say or think. Hey Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah. So i need to believe in the person Jesus to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, believing that Jesus is The Son of God, The Christ.

As Jesus states in John 5

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

fli · May 26, 2025

d taylor said:
-

Yes i see what you wrote as stating a free gift message

Well though people receive God's free gift of Eternal Life way before Jesus became flesh, died and was resurrected. Why because these people believed in The Person Jesus for eternal life.

So I like the way Jesus states it in John 11 also in John 20

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
--------------------------------------
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

I personally believe the death on the cross and resurrection should point a person to say or think. Hey Jesus is who He says He is The Son of God/The Messiah. So i need to believe in the person Jesus to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, believing that Jesus is The Son of God, The Christ.

As Jesus states in John 5

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." NKJV

Jesus said it was Peter's statement that He would build His church on and the gates of hell, built to keep people in hell, would not prevail against the statement. When a person makes that statement and believes it in their heart, Jesus opens the gate and lets the person enter into His kingdom. After Jesus was crucified and resurrected the part about His death and resurrection was added.

You are correct the OT saints only had to look forward to the messiah. They, for the most part, did not know the messiah had to die.

Acts 10:43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins." NKJV

All they had to do was believe God would send them a savior. However, God wanted them to behave like His children just as He expects us to act like His children.

Thank you

BelieveItOarKnot · Jun 13, 2025

fli said:
Once we accept discipline we have reached the point of eternal life

I'm thinking I got left behind. When did that happen? Can you tell me?

Pretty sure I'm still here in the flesh, bound with weakness, corruption, disobedience and dishonor. In fact I actually hate myself because of these conditions.

OH, that's right! I must hate myself and even others whom I LOVE, in order to be a disciple. Luke 14:26

Thank you Father for giving me "in"sights. Detestable as they are

Guojing · Jun 14, 2025

fli said:
One of 2 reactions happen when a person hears the gospel message which is:

“Jesus, the son of God, died for our sins and was resurrected for our justification. If you believe in Him you have eternal life. “

Was Jesus and the 12 preaching that to the nation of Israel at his first coming?

If not, what exactly was that gospel message, say in Luke 9:6 and Matthew 10:7?

fli · Jun 15, 2025

Guojing said:
Was Jesus and the 12 preaching that to the nation of Israel at his first coming?

If not, what exactly was that gospel message, say in Luke 9:6 and Matthew 10:7?

I tried another multi quote and I don't get it.

To Guojing

Remember those Gospel bibles that started with the gospel of John and continued from there to revelation. Those were for new believers. With those bibles people did not get confused as to when the NT began.

Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." NKJV

The rock Jesus would build His church on was Peter's statement. In Jesus' words, if you believe those facts, Jesus will open the gates of hell and let you into His kingdom. Those who continue in His kingdom will live eternally.

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

To continue in His kingdom, we must obey the above commandments.
Thank you.

To BelievetOarKnot

John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith. NKJV

If you are born of God you have overcome the world. I was taught when I came to Jesus that I was born of God when I received Jesus as my savior. That is a false teaching.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. NKJV

We were born from above when the Spirit of Jesus entered us and we were given the right to become a child of God. We are not a child of God until He calls us His son. We must prove we are His child by accepting His discipline.

Hebrews 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. NKJV

A child of God will accept His discipline. When I accepted Jesus, I was told that I had to repent of my sins to be saved. This I did as best I could. There was a sin that I thought was particularly vile which I repented of. I repented of that sin maybe 50,000 times trying to get rid of it. I worked on that sin over 20 years and was still plagued by it. Finally, after many failures, I cried out in desperation “ God, am I really saved.” The thought passed through my head “ But you love the brethren.”

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. NKJV

I had read that scripture many times during the 20 years and it could have come from me. However, since that incident I have not been bothered by that sin. I have been tempted but have not failed.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors — not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. NKJV

Looking back on those 20 years while I was obsessed over that one sin God was working on me in several different areas. I was compelled to read God's word almost daily. In addition, I could not pass by those with their hand out on the street corners without feeling convicted to do something. I started giving a couple of dollars to each. Eventually I graduated to keeping bags of snacks in my car that had a tract of the gospel in each bag. When I passed it to them I said that they should thank Jesus. In addition to that, whenever I heard of a fellow Christian in need I was compelled to help in some way. I could go on but you get the idea. God was teaching me to love others and quit loving things of the world.

If God calls, you a son you have passed from life to death. Yes, I'm still flesh and blood. As long as I am flesh and blood I am still a sinner and prone to fall to temptation. As long as I listen to His voice and let it lead me, I am in the Spirit and will overcome.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. NKJV

I know that I have passed from death to life.

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. NKJV

I eagerly await my adoption. I hope that you will realize the same for yourself.

Thank you

Guojing · Jun 16, 2025

fli said:
I tried another multi quote and I don't get it.

To Guojing

Remember those Gospel bibles that started with the gospel of John and continued from there to revelation. Those were for new believers. With those bibles people did not get confused as to when the NT began.

Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." NKJV

The rock Jesus would build His church on was Peter's statement. In Jesus' words, if you believe those facts, Jesus will open the gates of hell and let you into His kingdom. Those who continue in His kingdom will live eternally.

1 John 3:23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV

To continue in His kingdom, we must obey the above commandments.
Thank you.

To BelievetOarKnot

John 5:4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith. NKJV

If you are born of God you have overcome the world. I was taught when I came to Jesus that I was born of God when I received Jesus as my savior. That is a false teaching.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. NKJV

We were born from above when the Spirit of Jesus entered us and we were given the right to become a child of God. We are not a child of God until He calls us His son. We must prove we are His child by accepting His discipline.

Hebrews 12:7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. NKJV

A child of God will accept His discipline. When I accepted Jesus, I was told that I had to repent of my sins to be saved. This I did as best I could. There was a sin that I thought was particularly vile which I repented of. I repented of that sin maybe 50,000 times trying to get rid of it. I worked on that sin over 20 years and was still plagued by it. Finally, after many failures, I cried out in desperation “ God, am I really saved.” The thought passed through my head “ But you love the brethren.”

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. NKJV

I had read that scripture many times during the 20 years and it could have come from me. However, since that incident I have not been bothered by that sin. I have been tempted but have not failed.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors — not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. NKJV

Looking back on those 20 years while I was obsessed over that one sin God was working on me in several different areas. I was compelled to read God's word almost daily. In addition, I could not pass by those with their hand out on the street corners without feeling convicted to do something. I started giving a couple of dollars to each. Eventually I graduated to keeping bags of snacks in my car that had a tract of the gospel in each bag. When I passed it to them I said that they should thank Jesus. In addition to that, whenever I heard of a fellow Christian in need I was compelled to help in some way. I could go on but you get the idea. God was teaching me to love others and quit loving things of the world.

If God calls, you a son you have passed from life to death. Yes, I'm still flesh and blood. As long as I am flesh and blood I am still a sinner and prone to fall to temptation. As long as I listen to His voice and let it lead me, I am in the Spirit and will overcome.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God. NKJV

I know that I have passed from death to life.

Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs — heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. 18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. NKJV

I eagerly await my adoption. I hope that you will realize the same for yourself.

Thank you

So you are saying that obeying the Law was always part of the gospel that Jesus and the 12 preached to Israel.

If that is correct, then I certainly agree with you.

fli · Jun 16, 2025

Guojing said:
So you are saying that obeying the Law was always part of the gospel that Jesus and the 12 preached to Israel.

If that is correct, then I certainly agree with you.

I am saying that we obey that which Jesus convicts us of to stay in the Spirit. We do not have to obey the law as Jesus did that for us. We should conduct ourselves as God's children out of love.

Guojing · Jun 16, 2025

fli said:
We do not have to obey the law as Jesus did that for us.

If you read the final verse of Matthew, Matthew 28:20, do you think the 11 would have concluded that?

fli · Jun 17, 2025

Guojing said:
If you read the final verse of Matthew, Matthew 28:20, do you think the 11 would have concluded that?

I am teaching that we should observethose things that Jesus taught. Observe them out of love not for righteousness.

Galatians 2:1 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me. 2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated to them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to those who were of reputation, lest by any means I might run, or had run, in vain. 3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. NKJV

Did the 11 understand? At the time when Matthew was written they might not have understood? I do know.

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. NKJV

I do know that after Paul's visit, mentioned in the above, they should have know that no one is justified by works of the law. If we are justified by faith and not by works of the law then we are not required to do the law for righteousness. To make it more clear.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

If anyone believes in Christ and they work the law for righteousness they work in vain. If you believe in Christ you get righteousness by your faith in Christ. If you don't believe me.

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin." NKJV

We do not work for righteousness as our faith is accounted for righteousness.

As I understand it, if a Christian believes that they must do a work, works of the law or works of any kind for righteousness other than those God states we must do , they do not have faith in Jesus.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. NKJV

We know Jesus if we keep His commandments. I will comment on walking as He walked and keeping His word after I give the commandments that we must keep?

1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NKJV

His commandment (John 3:16, 18) that we believe in Jesus. His second commandment (John 13:34-35) that Christians love each other as He loved them.

Now on keeping His word, walking as He walked and doing those things pleasing in His sight. All of those are optional, for righteousness, and all are the same thing. All are done by believers out of love for Jesus. Keeping His word, walking as He walked and doing things pleasing in His sight are keeping the moral laws and loving nonbelievers as we love ourselves.( If you wonder why "loving God with all our heart, soul and strength" is not mentioned- if we love our brethren as Jesus love us we are loving Jesus, God, with the love He loved us with. )

Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." NKJV

To keep living physically we keep His word, do those thing pleasing in His sight and walking as He walked. If we do those things for righteousness we set aside the grace of God. If we set aside the grace of God, we are telling Jesus He died in vain. To me, that means we have lost salvation and treating His sacrifice as a common thing.

I want to make this clear. I am not saying in this reply that the law is dead. I am not saying we should not keep His word, do things pleasing in His sight and walking as He walked; we do those things out of love for Him, not because we have to.

Guojing · Jun 18, 2025

fli said:
Did the 11 understand? At the time when Matthew was written they might not have understood? I do know.

So you are assuming that the 11 will read all about Paul's epistles later on, and will come to the same conclusion as Paul.

Alright then.

fli · Jun 18, 2025

Guojing said:
So you are assuming that the 11 will read all about Paul's epistles later on, and will come to the same conclusion as Paul.

Alright then.

Acts 15:3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses." 6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." 12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, "Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 'After! this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;I will rebuild its ruins,And I will set it up; 17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,Says the Lord who does all these things.' 18 "Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."

The Jerusalem Decree (Not in scripture)

22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren. 23 They wrote this, letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren, To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, "You must be circumcised and keep the law" — to whom we gave no such commandment — 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell. NKJV

The yoke they did not put on the gentiles was the yoke of the law of Moses. The recommended thing were the things the gentiles did that offended the Jews. They never ate blood. All the sacrifices were killed in a humane manner, not strangled. Sexual immorality, homosexuallity and incest, was especially offensive. Notice that those things are recommended and not orders.

They heard Paul's report to the Jerusalem church. If they had any question they could get clarification on Paul's doctrine. I did presume that Peter kept the church informed of the first visit as it was his responsibility to do so.

Guojing · Jun 18, 2025

fli said:
They heard Paul's report to the Jerusalem church. If they had any question they could get clarification on Paul's doctrine. I did presume that Peter kept the church informed of the first visit as it was his responsibility to do so.

If you read that Acts 21 passage, Acts 21:20-25, the Acts 15 council only said gentiles believers were to be exempted from the Law, the Jewish believers still have to follow everything in the Law, including physical circumcision.

fli · Jun 18, 2025

Guojing said:
If you read that Acts 21 passage, Acts 21:20-25, the Acts 15 council only said gentiles believers were to be exempted from the Law, the Jewish believers still have to follow everything in the Law, including physical circumcision.

Galatians 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. NKJV

Is that a Jew writing the above? Paul states he, even though he's a Jew. is no longer under the tutor, the law.

Galatians 3:26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. NKJV

Does Paul say that there is neither Jew or gentile? Abraham was not a Jew or under the law. There is not a Jew under the law and a gentile not under the law.

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. NKJV

Christ did not redeem anyone from the curse, of the law, and immediately put them back under the curse.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." NKJV

If you are under the law, you have to do all the l;aw. That means that you have to offer the sacrifices required under the law. The law is one entire unit. God absolutely does not require anyone to offer animal sacrifices anymore.

But guess what. If Paul teaches that we should do the law to show our love for God the Jews can understand that. The Jews were given their right to practice their Jewishness except where it required them to rely on their ability to do the law. We do it out of love for God because He redeemed us from the curse.

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. 17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." NKJV

Is that a Jew telling a Jew that he was living as a gentile while trying to make gentiles live like a Jew.

If you cannot accept the fact that if you think that you can make yourself more righteous than the righteousness Jesus gives you go ahead and work the law to make yourself righteous. Just remember!!!!

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

If you are doing law the to be righteous then it's obvious to God that you do not believe the above.

Romans 10:5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." NKJV

Therefore, you might have to live by the life that the law gives you because you are depending on the law for your righteousness.

You will not try to convince me to join you. I will live by the life Jesus gives me and I will still teach we should follow the teachings of Jesus out of love for what He did for us. Does that mean that I do the law better or worse than you? No! It means that I believe God.

Guojing · Jun 18, 2025

fli said:
Galatians 3:24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. NKJV

Is that a Jew writing the above? Paul states he, even though he's a Jew. is no longer under the tutor, the law.

Galatians 3:26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. NKJV

Does Paul say that there is neither Jew or gentile? Abraham was not a Jew or under the law. There is not a Jew under the law and a gentile not under the law.

Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. NKJV

Christ did not redeem anyone from the curse, of the law, and immediately put them back under the curse.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just shall live by faith." 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who does them shall live by them." NKJV

If you are under the law, you have to do all the l;aw. That means that you have to offer the sacrifices required under the law. The law is one entire unit. God absolutely does not require anyone to offer animal sacrifices anymore.

But guess what. If Paul teaches that we should do the law to show our love for God the Jews can understand that. The Jews were given their right to practice their Jewishness except where it required them to rely on their ability to do the law. We do it out of love for God because He redeemed us from the curse.

Galatians 2:14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. 17 "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." NKJV

Is that a Jew telling a Jew that he was living as a gentile while trying to make gentiles live like a Jew.

If you cannot accept the fact that if you think that you can make yourself more righteous than the righteousness Jesus gives you go ahead and work the law to make yourself righteous. Just remember!!!!

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV

If you are doing law the to be righteous then it's obvious to God that you do not believe the above.

Romans 10:5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, "The man who does those things shall live by them." NKJV

Therefore, you might have to live by the life that the law gives you because you are depending on the law for your righteousness.

You are obviously not aware of the timeline of Paul's epistles.

Galatians and Romans were written by Paul after Acts 15, but before Acts 21.

The fact that James and the elders stated Acts 21:20-25 to Paul, obviously tell you that, as far as believers from Israel are concerned, they believe that those 2 epistles only apply to gentile believers.

Otherwise, Paul would have reminded James what he said in Galatians 5:2, when James reminded him of the need for physical circumcision for Jews and their children in Acts 21:21.

fli said:
You will not try to convince me to join you. I will live by the life Jesus gives me and I will still teach we should follow the teachings of Jesus out of love for what He did for us. Does that mean that I do the law better or worse than you? No! It means that I believe God.

I am not trying to convince you to follow the Law of Moses. Both of us are gentile believers, so we don't have to follow it anyway.

fli · Jun 19, 2025

Guojing said:
You are obviously not aware of the timeline of Paul's epistles.

Galatians and Romans were written by Paul after Acts 15, but before Acts 21.

The fact that James and the elders stated Acts 21:20-25 to Paul, obviously tell you that, as far as believers from Israel are concerned, they believe that those 2 epistles only apply to gentile believers.

Otherwise, Paul would have reminded James what he said in Galatians 5:2, when James reminded him of the need for physical circumcision for Jews and their children in Acts 21:21.

I am not trying to convince you to follow the Law of Moses. Both of us are gentile believers, so we don't have to follow it anyway.

Hebrews 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah — 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." 13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. NKJV

First of all just who is the New Covenant made with? Is it for all those who were under the OC? If it was for them and they accept the new, they are in the NC not in the OC. They can observe as much of the OC that does not make them violate the NC. If they observe the OC for salvation then they are not in the NC.

All Christians are under the new covenant. That means we observe the Spirit of Jesus within us. Our laws are not the external law of Moses. They are the laws in our mind and in our heart.

1 Corinthians 2:16 For "who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ. NKJV

We have the mind of Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart. NKJV

Jesus has written His epistle on our hearts. All Israeli under the NC do not observe external laws written on stone, parchment or anything else. For salvation, we observe the laws in our minds and hearts, That is Gods plan under the NC.

John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. NKJV

Only those who follow the internal voice of Jesus, not external orders, are His sheep.

Guojing · Jun 20, 2025

fli said:
All Israeli under the NC do not observe external laws written on stone, parchment or anything else.

I am not asking you what you believe in.

I am simply asking, in the context of what you are reading in Acts, did the 11/12 apostles of Jesus agree with what you are believing in above?

I am saying, if they did. their words and actions in Acts 15 and Acts 21 contradict that belief.

fli · Saturday at 6:46 AM

Guojing said:
I am not asking you what you believe in.

I am simply asking, in the context of what you are reading in Acts, did the 11/12 apostles of Jesus agree with what you are believing in above?

I am saying, if they did. their words and actions in Acts 15 and Acts 21 contradict that belief.

I'm sorry. I must be in combat mode. Forgive me please.

I believe that messianic Jews can obey the law, out of love, if they do it without doing anything that required them to deny Jesus. What I mean is, they cannot observe any sacrifice for their sins. If they did, it would be a witness to the unbelieving Jews “ You're right, Jesus does not make anyone righteous.”

As to acts 15 I see nothing there that indicates a strict observance to the law of Moses. The items mentioned were things that the gentiles were doing that bothered the Jews. The council was just asking the gentiles to be considerate and respect the Jewish customs so as not to offend. They are not told to avoid doing those things to be righteous. They are righteous from their faith, not works. Doing the things suggested is done out of love for their Jewish messianic brethren.

As to Acts 21 if the ritual was nothing but external washings, love offerings (not for sin) and abstaining from touching any unclean items that would be just observing their heritage and respecting another's customs (explained below). I cannot believe that God would allow them to do anything that would witness to those who killed Jesus that indicated they were still in sin. Even though we still sin as long as we are in the flesh, we are not in sin. We are in Jesus. No one in Jesus is in sin.

1 Corinthians 9:20 and to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the law, as under the law, that I might win those who are under the law; 21 to those who are without law, as without law (not being without law toward God, but under law toward Christ) NKJV

Paul became all things to witness to all people. He became without the law to those without the law. Did that mean he did the same things as they did? No! He respected their customs to concentrate on the one important thing, get them to believe in Jesus.

Acts 17:22 Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, "Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you:NKJV

Paul became an idol worshiper because he named the unknown God for them. He even gave them a compliment for their being religious. Did Paul tell them they were to worship the idol? No. He used it as a tool for opening the door for the Gospel. Does God hate idol worship? Yes. Do you know what He doesn't like more than that? He doesn't like that they do not believe in Jesus. He cannot rid them of any sin until they believe in Jesus. If they believe in Jesus then He can start healing them of all sins, until then He can do nothing for them. We modern day Christians should learn this lesson from Paul and not worry so much about the small stuff and concentrate on the major problem and get Jesus into them.

In 1Corinthians 9: 21 we are under law toward God to behave as children of God not to be righteous. We keep His 2 commandments and we are under Jesus' law of love. If we love the lost we will be witnesses to them. 1John 3:22-24 above all, we keep His 2 commandments, and we observe the law of love, out of love, to avoid ruining our witness.

Thank you.

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