Where did demons come from?

FireDragon76 · Jun 10, 2025

David Lamb said:
How do you know that the demons are much older than the earth? God doesn't tell us in His word when the demons were created. How do you know that Jesus preached to the Nephilim in gloomy dungeons? The Hebrew word for "Nephilim" occurs just 3 times in the bible, once in Genesis 6:

“There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” (Ge 6:4 NKJV)

and twice in Numbers 13:33:

“"There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."” (Nu 13:33 NKJV)

In each of the 2 places, the word for "Nephilim" is translated as "giants." None of the the places mention gloomy dungeons, or Jesus preaching to them.

I think the Bible is ambiguous about what demons and unclean spirits actually are, aside from being evil and malignant. Fallen angels are a possibility for at least some of the accounts of demons.

In ancient Mesopotamia and Greece, the word demon simply meant a minor spirit or deity, whether good or bad. Socrates, for instance, was accused of superstition, of believing in an inner daimonion, a deity not recognized by Athens.

Heisers notion of disembodied spirits of deceased, evil beings is a possibility, and one not without experiential evidence. In esoteric Judaism, the notion of the dibbuk exists, the spirit of a deceased person or entity that latches onto the living. Which reminds me of the case of the demonization of Gottlieben Ditus in 19th century Germany, associated with a haunting:

Johann Blumhardt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Carl Jung also had the notion of the autonomous complex: sometimes fragments of negative thought patterns can take on a life of their own, possibly even travelling into other people.

David Lamb · Jun 10, 2025

FireDragon76 said:
I think the Bible is ambiguous about what demons and unclean spirits actually are, aside from being evil and malignant. Fallen angels are a possibility for at least some of the accounts of demons.

In ancient Mesopotamia and Greece, the word demon simply meant a minor spirit or deity, whether good or bad. Socrates, for instance, was accused of superstition, of believing in an inner daimonion, a deity not recognized by Athens.

Heisers notion of disembodied spirits of deceased, evil beings is a possibility, and one not without experiential evidence. In esoteric Judaism, the notion of the dibbuk exists, the spirit of a deceased person or entity that latches onto the living. Which reminds me of the case of the demonization of Gottlieben Ditus in 19th century Germany, associated with a haunting:

Johann Blumhardt - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Carl Jung also had the notion of the autonomous complex: sometimes fragments of negative thought patterns can take on a life of their own, possibly even travelling into other people.

But my post wasn't about what demons are, (except insofar as I was replying to a post that seemed to be saying demons = Nephilim). I was saying that the bible does not tell us that the demons are much older than the earth, or that Jesus preached to demons.

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

Zceptre said:
When did you take a census and what's the guys name who gave you the number? LOL...

The Earth would have to be civilised with farms to hold billions of people. From Seth to Noah, took only hundreds of years.

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

David Lamb said:
How do you know that the demons are much older than the earth? God doesn't tell us in His word when the demons were created. How do you know that Jesus preached to the Nephilim in gloomy dungeons? The Hebrew word for "Nephilim" occurs just 3 times in the bible, once in Genesis 6:

“There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.” (Ge 6:4 NKJV)

and twice in Numbers 13:33:

“"There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight."” (Nu 13:33 NKJV)

In each of the 2 places, the word for "Nephilim" is translated as "giants." None of the the places mention gloomy dungeons, or Jesus preaching to them.

1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV 18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I interpret Genesis 1 not to be the very start of the Universe. Jesus refers to that old serpent the Devil, meaning accuser. In Genesis he was already old. The Universe is 13.79 billion years old, and may not be the start of all creation. In Job we read of the Morning Stars singing and the sons of God rejoicing.
Job 38:3-7 YLT
3Gird, I pray thee, as a man, thy loins, And I ask thee, and cause thou Me to know.

4Where wast thou when I founded earth? Declare, if thou hast known understanding.

5Who placed its measures — if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched out upon it a line?

6On what have its sockets been sunk? Or who hath cast its corner-stone?

7In the singing together of stars of morning, And all sons of God shout for joy,

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

David Lamb said:
But my post wasn't about what demons are, (except insofar as I was replying to a post that seemed to be saying demons = Nephilim). I was saying that the bible does not tell us that the demons are much older than the earth, or that Jesus preached to demons.

Demons like fallen angels are bound in a knot of rebellion from which they won't repent. Nephilim had a choice.

Demon means an extreme character, not merely a liar, or hypocrite but beyond all that, a demon. With complete resolve to align with Satan who was called Morning Star or Shining One. They seek to take God's glory... they hate God. The fallen angels and demons have committed the eternal sin. And will not repent for want of glory more than God would offer them in repentance and restoration.

David Lamb · Jun 10, 2025

GoldenKingGaze said:
1 Peter 3:18-20 KJV 18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I have never before come across the idea that Peter's "spirits in prison" were demons/Nephilim in gloomy dungeons. For example, Adam Clarke in his commentary says: "Unto the spirits in prison - The inhabitants of the antediluvian world."

GoldenKingGaze said:
I interpret Genesis 1 not to be the very start of the Universe. Jesus refers to that old serpent the Devil, meaning accuser. In Genesis he was already old. The Universe is 13.79 billion years old, and may not be the start of all creation.

So if it wasn't the very start of the universe, what "beginning" is meant in Genesis 1:1? The Devil is not called old in Genesis.

GoldenKingGaze said:
In Job we read of the Morning Stars singing and the sons of God rejoicing.
Job 38:3-7 YLT
3Gird, I pray thee, as a man, thy loins, And I ask thee, and cause thou Me to know.

4Where wast thou when I founded earth? Declare, if thou hast known understanding.

5Who placed its measures — if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched out upon it a line?

6On what have its sockets been sunk? Or who hath cast its corner-stone?

7In the singing together of stars of morning, And all sons of God shout for joy,

I am not sure how God's words to Job relate to what I posted. Even Adam and Eve were not able to observe God founding the earth, and although Job is reckoned to be an early Old Testament character, he came after Adam and Eve.

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

David Lamb said:
I have never before come across the idea that Peter's "spirits in prison" were demons/Nephilim in gloomy dungeons. For example, Adam Clarke in his commentary says: "Unto the spirits in prison - The inhabitants of the antediluvian world."

So if it wasn't the very start of the universe, what "beginning" is meant in Genesis 1:1? The Devil is not called old in Genesis.

I am not sure how God's words to Job relate to what I posted. Even Adam and Eve were not able to observe God founding the earth, and although Job is reckoned to be an early Old Testament character, he came after Adam and Eve.

The demons and fallen angels were defeated, and Jesus preached, plundering Satan's kingdom masterfully even of Nephilim.

Genesis 1:1-3 I think mentions a gap, between creation and then the Earth being topsy turvy. In Hebrew, tohu vavohu. It is about the very beginning of this Universe and then the restoring of the Earth.

Satan is old, an ancient morning star, In Job the reference of God is to primordial times then in context it mentions the morning stars, that is, worshipful angels and rejoicing sons of God.

David Lamb · Jun 10, 2025

GoldenKingGaze said:
The demons and fallen angels were defeated, and Jesus preached, plundering Satan's kingdom masterfully even of Nephilim.

But where in the bible are we told about Jesus preaching to Nephilim?

GoldenKingGaze said:
Genesis 1:1-3 I think mentions a gap, between creation and then the Earth being topsy turvy. In Hebrew, tohu vavohu. It is about the very beginning of this Universe and then the restoring of the Earth.

I know some Christians believe in the so-called "Gap Theory," which inserts a gap in the first few verses of Genesis. The verses themselves don't mention a gap. Here they are:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.” (Ge 1:1-3 NKJV)

GoldenKingGaze said:
Satan is old, an ancient morning star, In Job the reference of God is to primordial times then in context it mentions the morning stars, that is, worshipful angels and rejoicing sons of God.

Yes, but it doesn't say what you said, that he is much older than the earth. Primordial means "from the beginning of time." God inhabits eternity, and before His Creation, there was no such thing as time.

Postvieww · Jun 10, 2025

GoldenKingGaze said:
Why do you say this?

Context!

GoldenKingGaze said:
OT and NT reference with the same words and it is something different?

It is something different. In the NT Jesus is the son of God , in the NT Born again people are now the the sons of God , in Luke Adam was called “a” son of God. Adam was never born again as are NT Christians. Adam was created by the hand of God therefore called a son of God . Angels were also created by the hand of God and referred to in the OT as sons of god. Look up all four references to sons of Gods in the OT and none of them in context are human men.

GoldenKingGaze said:
Sons of God resemble God in image and likeness, angels are servants. The tradition that Genesis 6 is about angels using reference to sons I disbanded twenty years ago.

Your definition of “sons of God” does not contextually hold up in both the Old and New Testaments. They are different!

GoldenKingGaze said:
There are sons, angels and living creatures mentioned in scripture. Ezekiel's angels stand on wheels covered in eyes.

Context, context , context!

GoldenKingGaze said:
The author of Hebrews would have been Hebrew and a studied the OT much. It does refer to the OT a lot and says no angels are ever called sons.

Hebrews does not say what you claim. That passage refers to the fact that angels can never know salvation like humans that Christ died for.
1 Peter 1:12
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire tolook into.

GoldenKingGaze said:
Adam and Jesus are examples of sons, Satan was a morning star not ever a son.

Adam was mentioned in a Luke genealogy because he was the first man. Adam was created by the hand of God. Adam was never born again as are NT Christians, therefore the term son of God in Adam’s case was different by context and fact.

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

David Lamb said:
But where in the bible are we told about Jesus preaching to Nephilim?

I know some Christians believe in the so-called "Gap Theory," which inserts a gap in the first few verses of Genesis. The verses themselves don't mention a gap. Here they are:

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.” (Ge 1:1-3 NKJV)

Yes, but it doesn't say what you said, that he is much older than the earth. Primordial means "from the beginning of time." God inhabits eternity, and before His Creation, there was no such thing as time.

The Nephilim were in Hell. Peter said Jesus was led by the Spirit to preach in Hell to the spirits in gloomy dungeons from preflood times...

The LORD created but then there was disorder, so a topsy turvy world to repair, so I quoted Hebrew tohu vavohu. There is no creation of or against chaos until after Satan has been at work.

In Heaven there is the ever present, God manages time. He can personally and separately address many people at the same time. God's name is in the present tense, YHWH. I AM THAT I AM.

The angels were in existence before time, that's an oxymoron, in the ever present. They angels, the morning stars and sons of God were there at least in primordial times.

David Lamb · Jun 10, 2025

GoldenKingGaze said:
The Nephilim were in Hell. Peter said Jesus was led by the Spirit to preach in Hell to the spirits in gloomy dungeons from preflood times...

No, Peter says "spirits in prison."

GoldenKingGaze said:
The LORD created but then there was disorder, so a topsy turvy world to repair, so I quoted Hebrew tohu vavohu. There is no creation of or against chaos until after Satan has been at work.

Genesis 1 doesn't mention chaos. It says that when God first created the heavens and the earth, the earth was without form and void (empty). I would say that there was no sin before Satan had been at work, but that comes later, in Genesis 3.

GoldenKingGaze said:
In Heaven there is the ever present, God manages time. He can personally and separately address many people at the same time. God's name is in the present tense, YHWH. I AM THAT I AM.

The angels were in existence before time, that's an oxymoron, in the ever present. They angels, the morning stars and sons of God were there at least in primordial times.

We are not told when God created the angels. We are certainly not told that they existed before time.

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

Postvieww said:
Context!

It is something different. In the NT Jesus is the son of God , in the NT Born again people are now the the sons of God , in Luke Adam was called “a” son of God. Adam was never born again as are NT Christians. Adam was created by the hand of God therefore called a son of God . Angels were also created by the hand of God and referred to in the OT as sons of god. Look up all four references to sons of Gods in the OT and none of them in context are human men.

Your definition of “sons of God” does not contextually hold up in both the Old and New Testaments. They are different!

Context, context , context!

Hebrews does not say what you claim. That passage refers to the fact that angels can never know salvation like humans that Christ died for.
1 Peter 1:12
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire tolook into.

Adam was mentioned in a Luke genealogy because he was the first man. Adam was created by the hand of God. Adam was never born again as are NT Christians, therefore the term son of God in Adam’s case was different by context and fact.

I checked references to the sons of God, I found several in Genesis, Job and one in first John.

Hebrews 1 KJV
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

The angels of light have always had God's Spirit in them. Adam from conception or formation, had God's Spirit in him and didn't need to be born again until after the fall with Eve.

The angels surpassed the falling angels challenge and have a perfected nature in regards to temptation and have no need of a threat or warning of Hell in order to stay right. They want to look into our salvation. We are sons simply because we are made in God's image and likeness. Angels of light even if God gave them what the born again have in addition to their usual condition, would not become sons, they can't, nor can dark angels. Inwardly, their likeness is not the same as God, they are servants. They relate differently to God.

God said, "Let us make man in our image and likeness." Angels may look like people but are different, some don't look like God. There is this idea of son of father. Abraham, father of the faithful, then also Messiah, Isaiah 9:6, Father of eternity. Eternity His son, or He is author, creator.

Angels are created to serve God not be sons to Him... Nor even if they inherited salvation. Salvation makes the son of God who is lost and also called a son of the devil, on repentance and receiving grace, a son of God in position and later character rather than only the continuing image and likeness.

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

David Lamb said:
No, Peter says "spirits in prison."

Genesis 1 doesn't mention chaos. It says that when God first created the heavens and the earth, the earth was without form and void (empty). I would say that there was no sin before Satan had been at work, but that comes later, in Genesis 3.

We are not told when God created the angels. We are certainly not told that they existed before time.

Spirits in prison from before the flood. What prison is this?

Tohu vavohu is Hebrew from Genesis 1:1-3. The equivalent of topsy turvy or chaotic, God didn't make it that way, He doesn't work against a gradient. At the start, there is nothing, then there is order and it is good...

I choose to speculate as to when God created the angels.

ozso · Jun 10, 2025

It's pretty much a given that demons were once angels who sided with Satan.

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

If one refers to an exegete or theologian, which books do they reference? As I have two theology books to look at. Kevin J Connor's and Millard J Erickson's.

Paleouss · Jun 10, 2025

tonychanyt said:
Are demons fallen angels?

Greetings Tony. I wish blessing and hope to you from our Lord.

Since you most likely have heard me already in many of these debates regarding demons before. I'll be brief here.

Point #1: According to the Biblical text, it is reasonable to think that the term angels can be, and are, synonymous with spirits and demons (since we find instances of it used synonymously). This fact, that we find it used synonymously, together with the account in Revelation 12 which gives us insight into what foreign spiritual beings we might expect to find on earth. One could reasonably conclude that evil spirits and demons are those same fallen angels in Revelation 12:4. We have no reason to conclude otherwise if we restrict ourselves to the inspired word of God.

Angels = spirits (Heb 1:13-14, Psa 104:4, Num 27:16)
Satan (angel) = demon (Matt 12:24-26)
Satan (angel) = spirit (Eph 2:2)
angels = demons & spirits

Peace to you brother

Paleouss · Jun 10, 2025

Postvieww said:
All references to “sons of God” in the OT are angels.

Greetings to you Postvieww. I hope you are have a blessed day.

Regarding your assertion about "sons of God" in the OT. The use of the phrase "sons of God" (bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm) in Job is clearly in reference to angels. They are not humans. However, the reference to "sons of God" (bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm) in Genesis is not so clear.

The Hebrew phrase bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm does not translate to "angels" but to "sons of God". I point this out to demonstrate that the phrase of "sons of God" is a moniker (of sorts). That is, it is a moniker that denotes imagery for 'whose you are'.

Within the rest of the Bible, the imagery of "sons of..." denotes a membership, ethical standard, and favor of God; it denotes ‘whose you are’. This consistent imagery that sons of God, children of God, daughters of God are reserved for those in the favor and respect of God and his blessings seems to be supported by the fact that no other reference within the Bible gives imagery or a moniker of favor to a fallen angel (or man). But, in fact, fallen angels are depicted within context of “cursed” (Matt 25:41) “leading the world astray” (Rev 12:9), being in Hell and chained (2Pet 2:4), kept in chains under darkness.

On the other hand, angels in the favor and respect of God are called “angels of God” (Gen 28:12, Gen 32:1, Matt 22:30, Luke 12:8, Luke 12:9, Luke 15:10, John 1:51, Hebrews 1:6), “sons of the mighty” (Psalm 89:6), “holy ones” (Psalm 89:5) “holy watchers” (Daniel 4:13)... and … most likely if we are consistent with biblical imagery... “sons of God” (Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7).

Satan is described as masquerading as an angel of light (2Cor 11:14), leading the whole world astray (Revelation 12:9). He is a thief (John 10:10), a murderer, and the father of lies (John 8:44). It would appear to stick out as inconsistent within Scripture if the author, with the Spirit inspiring, would give reference to a fallen angel as anything other than evil, sinful, cursed, or fallen. Which is what the angel advocate is saying, that is, that an imagery phrase that is consistent within the biblical text as denoting 'whose you are' as being 'of God' and in His favor is a fallen evil angel in Genesis 6:1-4.

I'll restrict myself to one more point so I don't write an essay here.

(1) Interestingly, Job refers to angels in two other instances within the book of Job using a different Hebrew form of the word angel (Job 4:18, Job 33:23). In both those verses Job uses the Hebrew word mal-awk' (Job 33:23) or its derivative mal·’ā·ḵāw (Job 4:18). These are very common uses of "angel" within the entire Bible. In fact, this Hebrew word mal-awk' is used for “angel” 64x in the Bible. Further, it is also used as a common word for ‘angel’ in the book of Genesis, 8x (Gen 16:7,9,10,11; 21:17; 22:11; 22:15; 31:11).

So a question starts to materialize. Why doesn't Job, and the author of Genesis, use the more common form of 'angel' in these other passages instead of using a phrase of possession in Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7? The answer is, God wanted those that read it to understand who these people belong to, or in whose favor these people were, i.e., God's. Both uses of "sons of God" in Genesis and Job are denoting that whatever being is being referenced is in membership and favor of God. As is consistent with the rest of scripture.

It therefore follows that since this common Hebrew phrase "sons of..." denotes ownership and favor. Then the reference to "sons of God" in Genesis 6 is not a reference to fallen angels but in fact human beings that are in the ownership and favor of the Lord, i.e., those in Genesis 4:26.

Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure

GoldenKingGaze · Jun 10, 2025

Paleouss said:
Greetings to you Postvieww. I hope you are have a blessed day.

Regarding your assertion about "sons of God" in the OT. The use of the phrase "sons of God" (bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm) in Job is clearly in reference to angels. They are not humans. However, the reference to "sons of God" (bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm) in Genesis is not so clear.

The Hebrew phrase bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm does not translate to "angels" but to "sons of God". I point this out to demonstrate that the phrase of "sons of God" is a moniker (of sorts). That is, it is a moniker that denotes imagery for 'whose you are'.

Within the rest of the Bible, the imagery of "sons of..." denotes a membership, ethical standard, and favor of God; it denotes ‘whose you are’. This consistent imagery that sons of God, children of God, daughters of God are reserved for those in the favor and respect of God and his blessings seems to be supported by the fact that no other reference within the Bible gives imagery or a moniker of favor to a fallen angel (or man). But, in fact, fallen angels are depicted within context of “cursed” (Matt 25:41) “leading the world astray” (Rev 12:9), being in Hell and chained (2Pet 2:4), kept in chains under darkness.

On the other hand, angels in the favor and respect of God are called “angels of God” (Gen 28:12, Gen 32:1, Matt 22:30, Luke 12:8, Luke 12:9, Luke 15:10, John 1:51, Hebrews 1:6), “sons of the mighty” (Psalm 89:6), “holy ones” (Psalm 89:5) “holy watchers” (Daniel 4:13)... and … most likely if we are consistent with biblical imagery... “sons of God” (Job 1:6, Job 2:1, Job 38:7).

Satan is described as masquerading as an angel of light (2Cor 11:14), leading the whole world astray (Revelation 12:9). He is a thief (John 10:10), a murderer, and the father of lies (John 8:44). It would appear to stick out as inconsistent within Scripture if the author, with the Spirit inspiring, would give reference to a fallen angel as anything other than evil, sinful, cursed, or fallen. Which is what the angel advocate is saying, that is, that an imagery phrase that is consistent within the biblical text as denoting 'whose you are' as being 'of God' and in His favor is a fallen evil angel in Genesis 6:1-4.

I'll restrict myself to one more point so I don't write an essay here.

(1) Interestingly, Job refers to angels in two other instances within the book of Job using a different Hebrew form of the word angel (Job 4:18, Job 33:23). In both those verses Job uses the Hebrew word mal-awk' (Job 33:23) or its derivative mal·’ā·ḵāw (Job 4:18). These are very common uses of "angel" within the entire Bible. In fact, this Hebrew word mal-awk' is used for “angel” 64x in the Bible. Further, it is also used as a common word for ‘angel’ in the book of Genesis, 8x (Gen 16:7,9,10,11; 21:17; 22:11; 22:15; 31:11).

So a question starts to materialize. Why doesn't Job, and the author of Genesis, use the more common form of 'angel' in these other passages instead of using a phrase of possession in Job 1:6, 2:7, 38:7? The answer is, God wanted those that read it to understand who these people belong to, or in whose favor these people were, i.e., God's. Both uses of "sons of God" in Genesis and Job are denoting that whatever being is being referenced is in membership and favor of God. As is constant with the rest of scripture.

It therefore follows that since this common Hebrew phrase "sons of..." denotes ownership and favor. Then the reference to "sons of God" in Genesis 6 is not a reference to fallen angels but in fact human beings that are in the ownership and favor of the Lord, i.e., those in Genesis 4:26.

Keep seeking God's truth as if it were hidden treasure

How might it be clear that Job referencing "sons of God" is referring to any kind of angel? Moses is considered to have written Job and Genesis, and the terms used are from the same author.

Paleouss · Jun 10, 2025

GoldenKingGaze said:
How might it be clear that Job referencing "sons of God" is referring to any kind of angel?

Greetings GoldenKingGaze. Thank you for commenting on my post. Peace be to you brother.

Just addressing the book of Job.

Job 38:5-7 appears to be in the context of 'creation'. It refers to when God "determined its measurements" and foundations being fastened. Within this context, along with "morning stars". It seems evident to me that sons of God are angels here in Job 38. The only Humans that would even be considered would be Adam and Eve (but only if by creation, it is referring to that far into creation, i.e., the creation of mankind). But the reference to creation appears to be more limited to the heaven and earth. Further, Adam would be the only "son" and would not constitute the use of the plural "sons". So the "sons of God" (bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm) in Job 38:5-7 are angels in favor and blessings of the Lord.

In Job 1:6 and 2:1, it appears to be referencing some kind of assembly of the divine court in which angels come and present themselves before the Lord. Satan apparently still has access to this court (my speculation is that he represents earth and mankind because he is the ruler of this world (John 12:31), although this is speculation). Although I could see a possible argument for why even Job 1:6 and 2:1 could be human. I think it is more likely that they are angels like in Job 38:5-7.

Despite this fact that I think that the common phrase of possession of 'whose you are' in Job is in reference to angels. This does not dictate that those in Genesis 6:1-4 are angels. For the foundation of this is that bə-nê hā-’ĕ-lō-hîm does not translate "humans" or "angels" but translates "sons of God" which is an expression of 'whose you are'. The further reasoning and verses for this in the previous post.

Peace to you brother.

ByGraceandLoveDivine · Jun 10, 2025

Nephilim and demons are two distinct entities. Nephilim mentioned two times in the bible while demons are mentioned 84 times

1. Demons (Evil Spirits):
Hebrew: The term commonly translated as "demon" in the Hebrew Bible is שֵׁד (shed). This word appears in Deuteronomy 32:17 and Psalm 106:37, where it's linked to the worship of false gods and practices like child sacrifice.
Greek: In the New Testament, the Greek words used for demons or evil spirits are δαιμόνιον (daimonion) and δαίμων (daimōn).
δαιμόνιον (daimonion): This is the more frequently used term in the New Testament and is often translated as "demon". It can refer to a supernatural spirit of a bad nature or a spirit or divine power that is not earthly or physical.
δαίμων (daimōn): This term, while also translated as "demon," can also refer to a fallen angel. It was originally used in Greek authors to denote a deity or a spiritual being, both good and bad.
2. Nephilim:
Hebrew: The Hebrew word is נְפִילִים (Nephilim).
Meaning: This word is thought to be derived from the Hebrew root נָפַל (naphal)meaning "to fall". Possible interpretations of the Hebrew name include:"Fallen ones"
"Those who cause others to fall down"
"Giants" (as in the Septuagint translation)
Greek (Septuagint): In the Septuagint (the ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible), the word used to translate Nephilim is γίγαντες (gigantes), which means "giants". This translation influenced the traditional understanding of the Nephilim as giants.

While demons are not nephilim some People still argue that there may be desendents of the Nephilim. While the majority of Christians believe they perished during the flood. Personally I think Nephilim are more like Sterile hybrids, like mules (lion-tiger mix), tigons (lion-tiger mix), and zorses (zebra-horse mix) otherwise the bible would have mentioned tem more then 2 times though some say goliath may have been a nephilim.

The bible says when lucifer left heaven a third of the stars where flung to earth so there are an awful lot of demons. Revelation 12:4 yes they were angels and became demons. Similar to how lucifer became the devil.

1/3 of the stars in the univers that equal to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, or 10 to the power of 21. However some may be in the abyss becuase they begged Jesus not to send them there

Where did demons come from?

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