They deny the Saving Efficacy of the Death of Christ !

Clare73 · May 30, 2025

fhansen said:
Nope, you don't have Institutes in your bible either. But both claim to be correct interpreters of revelation as you do yourself.

Present the Scriptures which teach such, understood in the light of all the NT.

fhansen · May 30, 2025

Clare73 said:
Present the Scriptures which teach such, understood in the light of all the NT.

I already gave you some references-go study more.

Clare73 · May 30, 2025

fhansen said:
Nope, you don't have Institutes in your bible either but I'd bet it's impacted your theology. Either way, both our catechism and Institutes claim to render correct umderstanding of revelation, as you do yourself. Anyway, with the quotes I offered, you can have an expanded understanding now.

My theology was built from 100% Scripture. . .and it took a couple of years before I discovered that it was in agreement with the WCF (except on divorce).

Clare73 · May 30, 2025

fhansen said:
I already gave you some references-go study more.

And your understanding of them (post #4) disagrees with part of the NT because

1) you understand "whole world" to mean "all without exception,"rather than "all without distinction," and

2) you have the same sin unjustly being paid for twice, once by Jesus and again by the unbelieving sinner himself.

fhansen · May 31, 2025

Clare73 said:
My theology was built from 100% Scripture. . .and it took a couple of years before I discovered that it was in agreement with the WCF (except on divorce).

That's interesting because I began to be impressed with Catholicism, to my own surprse, when I discovered that they agreed with me, on justification primarily and to begin with. It's also interesting that you disagree with the WCF on divorce since ther position is fairly close to Catholcism, I believe, except for their injunction not to marry Catholics, of course, LOL.

Brightfame52 · Jun 3, 2025

Here's another one Heb 10:14

14 For by one offering[His Death/Blood] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

His Offering of Himself for them He Offered Himself for, resulted in them being perfected forever ! Perfect Justification, which includes their Glorification !

fhansen · Jun 4, 2025

Clare73 said:
And your understanding of them (post #4) disagrees with part of the NT because

1) you understand "whole world" to mean "all without exception,"rather than "all without distinction," and

2) you have the same sin unjustly being paid for twice, once by Jesus and again by the unbelieving sinner himself.

Well, a fair bit of speculation there.

Anyway, the sins of the whole world were paid for on Calvary. If we don’t care, if we remain unrepentant and apart from Him, we will perish, even as God is very patient with us, wanting none to perish (2 Pet 3:9). God loves humankind, His creation. If we turn back to sin and away from Him after all that He did, to take our sin away, we’re crucifying Him all over again (Heb 6:4-8).

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2025

fhansen said:
Well, a fair bit of speculation there.

Anyway, the sins of the whole world were paid for on Calvary. If we don’t care, if we remain unrepentant and apart from Him, we will perish, even as God is very patient with us, wanting none to perish (2 Pet 3:9).

Written to NT Christians, none of whom God wanted to perish.

Keeping in mind God wanted Pharaoh to let his people go, and also hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he would not let them go.

fhansen · Jun 4, 2025

Clare73 said:
Written to NT Christians, none of whom God wanted to perish.

Keeping in mind God wanted Pharaoh to let his people go, and also hardened Pharaoh's heart so that he would not let them go.

I see, He was being a bit indecisive there, apparently.

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2025

fhansen said:
I see, He was being a bit indecisive there, apparently.

Low view of God. . .mockery of the text. . .failure to address the text. . .and likewise not according to the God-breathed Scripture (2 Tim 3:16) of Ro 9:14-24.

Reveals a lot. . .all of which are pretty consistent here.

fhansen · Jun 4, 2025

Clare73 said:
Low view of God. . .mockery of the text. . .failure to address the text. . .and likewise not according to the God-breathed Scripture (2 Tim 3:16) of Ro 9:14-24.

Reveals a lot. . .all of which are pretty consistent here.

Nope-just a low view and light mockery of a certain perspective on God-breathed Scripture.

Clare73 · Jun 4, 2025

fhansen said:
Nope-just a low view and light mockery of a certain perspective on God-breathed Scripture (2 Tim 3:16).

Sounding brass and tinkling cymbal. . .

I note the failure to address the Scripture (Ro 9:14-24) presented. . .

Making the assertion without Biblical demonstration and, therefore, without Biblical merit.

fhansen · Jun 4, 2025

Clare73 said:
Sounding brass and tinkling cymbal. . .

I note the failure to address the Scripture (Ro 9:14-24) presented. . .

Making the assertion without Biblical demonstration and, therefore, without Biblical merit.

Christianity doesn't base its beliefs on perfunctory readings and intepretations of isolated passages some 1500-2000 years after the fact but on a continous legacy of beliefs based on the full counsel of revelation, whether written or unwritten, and also in light of the understanding of the early church especially as reflected in the councils and supported by the writings of ECFs along with theological insights, clarifications, and explanations down through the centuries that have been recognized and accepted as true and particulary valuable for our understanding. God never abandoned the church He established.

God is love-and God's the Boss. He works out His plans according to His infinite wisdom and love and while He certainly shows mercy on whom He has mercy, we also know He shows mercy on those who show mercy, and forgives those who forgive others, incorporating our foreknown choices into His plans. And He predestines none to hell-that's not the God revealed by Christ.

Brightfame52 · Jun 5, 2025

fhansen said:
Well, a fair bit of speculation there.

Anyway, the sins of the whole world were paid for on Calvary. If we don’t care, if we remain unrepentant and apart from Him, we will perish, even as God is very patient with us, wanting none to perish (2 Pet 3:9). God loves humankind, His creation. If we turn back to sin and away from Him after all that He did, to take our sin away, we’re crucifying Him all over again (Heb 6:4-8).

Unrepentance is a sin that was paid for if Christ paid the penalty for all our sins.

fhansen · Jun 5, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Unrepentance is a sin that was paid for if Christ paid the penalty for all our sins.

I'm sorry, but that's just...I don't want to say it- but suffice it to say that it's just so foreign to the gospel as Jesus presented it and as the church received it at the beginning. And even if atonement is limited you don't even know with perfect certainty that you're one of those who's sins were paid for. You could easily be deceiving yourself there. Now, OTOH, if you're finding yourself deeply in love with God , and neighbor, and serving God by serving your neighbor, then you likely have a leg to stand on.

Brightfame52 · Jun 6, 2025

fhansen said:
I'm sorry, but that's just...I don't want to say it- but suffice it to say that it's just so foreign to the gospel as Jesus presented it and as the church received it at the beginning. And even if atonement is limited you don't even know with perfect certainty that you're one of those who's sins were paid for. You could easily be deceiving yourself there. Now, OTOH, if you're finding yourself deeply in love with God , and neighbor, and serving God by serving your neighbor, then you likely have a leg to stand on.

Christ redeemed them from all iniquity, impenitence is included in iniquity Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Plus He purified them

Clare73 · Jun 6, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Unrepentance is a sin that was paid for if Christ paid the penalty for all our sins.

No. . .repentance is your remedy for sin. . .you reject the remedy if you do not repent.

fhansen · Jun 6, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Christ redeemed them from all iniquity, impenitence is included in iniquity Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Plus He purified them

This isn't just some kind of intellectual concept that you decide applies to yourself. The truest way you can have assurance that any of this most likely applies to you is if you're actually walking in that kind of purity-and growing in it-and persevering in it to the end. That's how we "make our calling and election sure", "working out our salvation" (Phil 2:12-13, 2 Pet 1:10). He might redeem and purify you, and keep you there, to the extent that you also remain in Him, picking up your cross and following Him daily, making effort to be holy and to do good (John 15:5, Matt 16:24, Heb 12:14, Rom 2:7) with the holiness and goodness and grace that can flow to you only from its Source: the Vine, as you truly remain connected to Him.

Brightfame52 · Jun 6, 2025

Clare73 said:
No. . .repentance is your remedy for sin. . .you reject the remedy if you do not repent.

Lol, Christ Death is the remedy of sin, like unrepentance, in fact He gives it when He saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

fhansen · Jun 6, 2025

Brightfame52 said:
Lol, Christ Death is the remedy of sin, like unrepentance, in fact He gives it when He saves Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

So...as Christ is the remedy of sin, does that mean that He takes them away, removing our condemnation to death by replacing sin with righteousness?

They deny the Saving Efficacy of the Death of Christ !

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