Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!
Well, the literal reading of Genesis stories aside, why do you say that "no mother is the mother of just the flesh of their children. They are mother to the whole person.", then?
About a lot of things, I'm sure. It doesn't help this conversation if you don't want to clearly state what you believe my error is.
Your statements are inconsistent. Your first statement is that "no mother is the mother of just the flesh of their children. They are mother to the whole person."
Better reread the Nicene Creed. There is no "as far as His humanity is conceerned". He is wholly God and wholly human.
Yes He has, and does. And He unarguably has a mother.
No one suggested that it did.
I see nothing in Scripture that forbids us asking Christians who are "present with the Lord" from praying for them.
But we see that they receive the prayers of the saints, don't we? "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Mrs. Kim, and she was alive and well last week
Except that she's interceding with God on my behalf?
The most common prayer to the BVM ,by far, is "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us".
I don't believe they are
And by "flesh" I was referring to human nature.
That isn't my second statement. I said "no" to what you asked in post #879, ie. it wasn't what I was saying. I then went on to explain that each person is created by God. God takes ovum and sperm from each of the parents and creates a new person who shares physical characteristics of their parents. I didn't say anything about their spirit and whether or not it is created using anything from the parents' spirits.
Body, soul & spirit.
So do you believe that Christ had no existence before He was conceived in Mary's womb? If He, as God, already existed, then Mary was not the mother of His Godhood. I should stress I am not trying to split Christ's manhood from His deity, just saying that as far as His deity is concerned He is eternal.
But He was not Man before the Incarnation. I agree that Jesus Christ is wholly God and wholly human.
He didn't have a mother when He was in heaven before His Incarnation.
But that is arguing from silence. All prayers in Scripture (except for reports of heathen prayers, such as, "O Baal, hear us!" of course) are addressed to God, and there is not a single example of any Christian asking a Christian who is already in heaven to pray for them.
Yes, and in the bible, "saints" is a word applied to all Christians, not just some Christians already in heaven.
Well, as I said, there is nothing unbiblical about asking a fellow-Christian on earth to pray for you.
So it might be, but no prayer to Mary is to be found in God's word.
Yeah, that's the slippery part of the thing. If the BVM isn't to be considered the Mother of God, then that's a direct attack on the Incarnation. Either our Lord Christ is God Incarnate or He isn't. He can't be taken to bits to sort out how much of Him is human and how much is God. It leads to the idea that our Lord is God in a human suit. And judging by my upbringing as a Baptist, that idea is more common than not. i think that's largely the reason for Evangrkicl Protestantism's vehement rejection of the BVM as the Mother of God (or the more pernicious "she was nothing special" belief) and the rejection of the elements of the Eucharist being the actual Body and Blood of Christ.The Trinity and the Incarnation are both sore spots for evangelicals, and they're never altogether comfortable with them. Most, if not all, of the "explanations" of the Trinity I was taught in Baptist SS were straight up modalist, and any suggestions that that might not be quite according to Hoyle was generally met with irrelevant pious vaporing.
Here's a hint: "Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Any questions?
