Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 9, 2025

Ed Parenteau said:
Daniel tells us that the Messiah the Prince comes AFTER the 69 weeks which is the 70th week, and there's no amount of transforming the scripture that will turn that into a 7 year tribulation. The only time Daniel mentions "tribulation" is in chapter 12 and says it will be for a time, times and half a time.
As to the opening of the seals, also in chapter 12, Daniel is told this: Daniel 12:4But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
As you can see, the words of the prophecy would be revealed at the time of the end. Jesus opened up the seals in Rev chapter 6, at the time of the end, that's why He repeatedly said: "I am coming soon"
Also, knowledge would increase and men would travel to and fro. The greatest knowledge man has or ever would receive is the gospel of Jesus Christ and came in the generation that Christ called "this" generation, even as the disciples were commanded to go into all the world and preach it. And they did.
The "hour of trial" therefore was in the first century as John said: "it is the last hour" speaking of the antichrists that had already gone out into the world and therefore they knew it was the last hour.

The midpoint of the Trib is Matt 24:15, which occurs very shortly after Rev 11:2-3.

At the midpoint, two simultaneous time periods begin in Rev 11:2-3. They each equal 3.5 years.

The second half of the Trib is proven to be 3.5 years long. That proves that the first half is also 3.5 years long.

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 9, 2025

Ed Parenteau said:
Daniel tells us that the Messiah the Prince comes AFTER the 69 weeks which is the 70th week, and there's no amount of transforming the scripture that will turn that into a 7 year tribulation. The only time Daniel mentions "tribulation" is in chapter 12 and says it will be for a time, times and half a time.
As to the opening of the seals, also in chapter 12, Daniel is told this: Daniel 12:4But you, Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
As you can see, the words of the prophecy would be revealed at the time of the end. Jesus opened up the seals in Rev chapter 6, at the time of the end, that's why He repeatedly said: "I am coming soon"
Also, knowledge would increase and men would travel to and fro. The greatest knowledge man has or ever would receive is the gospel of Jesus Christ and came in the generation that Christ called "this" generation, even as the disciples were commanded to go into all the world and preach it. And they did.
The "hour of trial" therefore was in the first century as John said: "it is the last hour" speaking of the antichrists that had already gone out into the world and therefore they knew it was the last hour.

More proof that you’re wrong.

The “hour of trial” is about the 21 judgments of God’s wrath (Rev 6-16). None of those judgments are stated in the Bible to have occurred. That includes the seals. They remain unopened.

Ed Parenteau · Apr 9, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
How long is a “week” and “half of the week” in Daniel 9:27?

Rev 5:1 (ESV): Then I saw in the right hand of him who was seated on the throne a scroll written within and on the back, sealed with seven seals.

Daniel 12:1 (ESV) … But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.

Jesus will open a scroll, sealed with seven seals.

Daniel is talking about a book of names.

Rev 3:10 has not been fulfilled. Its “hour of trial” is what believers will be kept from and it’s only unbelievers who will be subjected to the “hour of trial.” Furthermore, the “hour of trial” is coming over the whole world. Therefore, all believers are taken away from the world, raptured to Heaven through Rev 4:1. Those facts invalidate your context as having anything to do with Rev 3:10.

Jesus did open the 7 seals in Chapter 6:1,3,7,9,12 and Rev 8:1. And there's nothing about a book of names. Daniel 12:8I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?” 9He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

There's 2 halves to the week and you're saying that Christ hasn't died for our sins yet? The following all must happen within the 70 weeks.
Daniel 9:24“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
So where in the 70 weeks were these things accomplished? No one can enter into heaven without these things having been accomplished. Therefore no pre tribulation rapture.

Also, no pre trib rapture until the synagogue of Satan comes and bows down at your feet. Certainly if 3:10 hasn't happened yet, then 3:9 hasn't happened yet either.
If Rev 3:10 were the pre trib rapture, then the sign before it takes place is verse 3:9 in context. 9Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 9, 2025

Ed Parenteau said:
Jesus did open the 7 seals in Chapter 6:1,3,7,9,12 and Rev 8:1. And there's nothing about a book of names. Daniel 12:8I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?” 9He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.

There's 2 halves to the week and you're saying that Christ hasn't died for our sins yet? The following all must happen within the 70 weeks.
Daniel 9:24“Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.
So where in the 70 weeks were these things accomplished? No one can enter into heaven without these things having been accomplished. Therefore no pre tribulation rapture.

Also, no pre trib rapture until the synagogue of Satan comes and bows down at your feet. Certainly if 3:10 hasn't happened yet, then 3:9 hasn't happened yet either.
If Rev 3:10 were the pre trib rapture, then the sign before it takes place is verse 3:9 in context. 9Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.

You are wrong again and again. Here’s more proof:

Rev 6:1 ESV): I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard …

In addition to verse 2, in verses 3, 5 and 6, “I heard” was stated over and over.

That evidence proves that John was being shown the supernatural scene for Rev 6. John was then just writing Rev 6.

All of Rev 4-22 and Rev 3:10 remain unfulfilled and will only occur after the pre-Trib rapture (Rev 4:1).

Ed Parenteau · Apr 9, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
More proof that you’re wrong.

The “hour of trial” is about the 21 judgments of God’s wrath (Rev 6-16). None of those judgments are stated in the Bible to have occurred. That includes the seals. They remain unopened.

God's wrath is not a trial, it's a punishment. A trial is a test or temptation and anyone can suffer, and anyone can suffer great tribulation but not the great tribulation caused by God's wrath.

peirasmos: Temptation, trial, testing
Original Word: πειρασμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: peirasmos
Pronunciation: pi-ras-MOS
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-ras-mos')
Definition: Temptation, trial, testing
Meaning: (a) trial, probation, testing, being tried, (b) temptation, (c) calamity, affliction.

Word Origin: Derived from the Greek verb πειράζω (peirazō), meaning "to test" or "to tempt."

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often associated with "peirasmos" is מַסָּה (massah), which also means testing or trial, as seen in passages like Deuteronomy 6:16.

Usage: In the New Testament, "peirasmos" primarily refers to a situation or process that tests a person's character, faith, or endurance. It can denote both external trials and internal temptations. The term is used to describe circumstances that challenge believers, either through persecution, hardship, or enticement to sin. The context often determines whether the emphasis is on testing or temptation.

Cultural and Historical Background: In the Greco-Roman world, trials and tests were common themes in philosophical and religious discourse. The concept of testing was often associated with refining or proving one's character. In Jewish thought, trials were seen as opportunities for growth and demonstration of faithfulness to God. The early Christian community, facing persecution and moral challenges, would have understood "peirasmos" as both a test of faith and a potential stumbling block.

keras said:
Your efforts to refute false beliefs are commendable, but you shouldn't make obviously wrong statements, like the above.
2000 years ago was hardly 'the last hour'.

Atter the forthcoming Sixth Seal clearance of the Middle East region, then one powerful man will arise to lead the ungodly peoples. Rev 17:9-13

Ed Parenteau · Apr 9, 2025

keras said:
Your efforts to refute false beliefs are commendable, but you shouldn't make obviously wrong statements, like the above.
2000 years ago was hardly 'the last hour'.

Atter the forthcoming Sixth Seal clearance of the Middle East region, then one powerful man will arise to lead the ungodly peoples. Rev 17:9-13

I'm going by what John himself said and whom I believe is telling the truth. And that was 2000 years ago.
1 John 2:18Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour....22Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
These antichrist's are also pointed out in Jude as having entered in among them. Then he says of them:
Jude: 4For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
The book of Jude is all about these antichrists and who they were and what they faced.

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 9, 2025

Ed Parenteau said:
God's wrath is not a trial, it's a punishment. A trial is a test or temptation and anyone can suffer, and anyone can suffer great tribulation but not the great tribulation caused by God's wrath.

peirasmos: Temptation, trial, testing
Original Word: πειρασμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: peirasmos
Pronunciation: pi-ras-MOS
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-ras-mos')
Definition: Temptation, trial, testing
Meaning: (a) trial, probation, testing, being tried, (b) temptation, (c) calamity, affliction.

Word Origin: Derived from the Greek verb πειράζω (peirazō), meaning "to test" or "to tempt."

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Hebrew equivalent often associated with "peirasmos" is מַסָּה (massah), which also means testing or trial, as seen in passages like Deuteronomy 6:16.

Usage: In the New Testament, "peirasmos" primarily refers to a situation or process that tests a person's character, faith, or endurance. It can denote both external trials and internal temptations. The term is used to describe circumstances that challenge believers, either through persecution, hardship, or enticement to sin. The context often determines whether the emphasis is on testing or temptation.

Cultural and Historical Background: In the Greco-Roman world, trials and tests were common themes in philosophical and religious discourse. The concept of testing was often associated with refining or proving one's character. In Jewish thought, trials were seen as opportunities for growth and demonstration of faithfulness to God. The early Christian community, facing persecution and moral challenges, would have understood "peirasmos" as both a test of faith and a potential stumbling block.

Rev 3:10 (ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

The “hour of trial that is coming on the whole world” is the 7-year Trib featuring its 21 judgments of God’s wrath: seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowls. The reason it’s called a “trial” is that mountains of evidence are presented to prove God is real and that He is all-powerful. God is also merciful and what He wants most is for those unbelievers to repent and believe in Jesus as their Savior.

Jesus said the purpose of the “hour of trial” is to “try those who dwell on the earth.” That last quotation is always about unbelievers, in the context of the Trib. The Church is pre-Trib raptured in Rev 4:1.

Ed Parenteau · Apr 11, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Rev 3:10 (ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

The “hour of trial that is coming on the whole world” is the 7-year Trib featuring its 21 judgments of God’s wrath: seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowls. The reason it’s called a “trial” is that mountains of evidence are presented to prove God is real and that He is all-powerful. God is also merciful and what He wants most is for those unbelievers to repent and believe in Jesus as their Savior.

Jesus said the purpose of the “hour of trial” is to “try those who dwell on the earth.” That last quotation is always about unbelievers, in the context of the Trib. The Church is pre-Trib raptured in Rev 4:1.

All of that is assumption and never once stated in scripture. What is clearly stated is that the church at Philadelphia were the ones who had kept the word of His patient endurance and therefore were the ones promised to be kept from the "hour of trial/temptation". As to the phrase "the whole world", and refers only to the world of unbelievers of which we are no of. We are in the world but not of the world. Our citizenship is in heaven.
Rev 11:10 is at the end of the great tribulation, after the 2 witness prophesy for 1260 days when it uses the term "whole earth",
Why would unbelievers glorify God and not cry out for mercy by v13?
And right after that, at the seventh and last trumpet right before the judgement and resurrection take place, verse 19.

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 11, 2025

Ed Parenteau said:
All of that is assumption and never once stated in scripture. What is clearly stated is that the church at Philadelphia were the ones who had kept the word of His patient endurance and therefore were the ones promised to be kept from the "hour of trial/temptation". As to the phrase "the whole world", and refers only to the world of unbelievers of which we are no of. We are in the world but not of the world. Our citizenship is in heaven.
Rev 11:10 is at the end of the great tribulation, after the 2 witness prophesy for 1260 days when it uses the term "whole earth",
Why would unbelievers glorify God and not cry out for mercy by v13?
And right after that, at the seventh and last trumpet right before the judgement and resurrection take place, verse 19.

The seals and trumpets occur in the first half of the Trib. In Scripture, starting at Rev 6:1-2, the first seal is opened. The 7th seal is opened in Rev 8:1. The trumpets begin in Rev 8:7. The 7th trumpet occurs in Rev 11:15, just before the midpoint in the Trib. The 2W begin their prophesying in Matt 24:14, one verse before the midpoint (Matt 24:15).

Rev 3:10 is in the future because the "hour of trial" is the 7-year Trib. The Trib has not yet started because Rev 5 has not yet occurred which must occur immediately before Rev 6:1, wherein Jesus opens the first seal.

Ed Parenteau · Apr 14, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
The seals and trumpets occur in the first half of the Trib. In Scripture, starting at Rev 6:1-2, the first seal is opened. The 7th seal is opened in Rev 8:1. The trumpets begin in Rev 8:7. The 7th trumpet occurs in Rev 11:15, just before the midpoint in the Trib. The 2W begin their prophesying in Matt 24:14, one verse before the midpoint (Matt 24:15).

Rev 3:10 is in the future because the "hour of trial" is the 7-year Trib. The Trib has not yet started because Rev 5 has not yet occurred which must occur immediately before Rev 6:1, wherein Jesus opens the first seal.

In Rev 11 the wrath came and it was time for the dead to be judged,
Revelation 11:
15Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” 16And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying,

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
who is and who was,
for you have taken your great power
and begun to reign.
18The nations raged,
but your wrath came, (you can see that the wrath already came-it's at the end of the great tribulation and is recapitulated in Rev 20)
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”

Recapitulated in Rev 20:
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The following verses make it clear that there is no more revelation coming.
Deuteronomy 29:29The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, so that we may follow all the words of this law.

Amos 3:7“For the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.

Jude 3Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

What's the reason you can't believe these words of Jesus? They are present tense indicative(factual) statements and can't be made more clear.
Revelation 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord ...
... He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. He who is the faithful witness to all these things ...

Revelation 22:20 - Nothing May Be Added

He who testifies to these things says, Yes, I am coming soon. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

biblehub.com

Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to ...
... "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. "Look, I am coming ...

Revelation 22:12 - Jesus is Coming

Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

biblehub.com

Revelation 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your ...
... I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so ...

Revelation 3:11 - To the Church in Philadelphia

I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

biblehub.com

Revelation 22:7 "Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this ...
... "Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll." "Look, I am coming soon! Blessed ...

Revelation 22:7 - Jesus is Coming

Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.

biblehub.com

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 14, 2025

Ed Parenteau said:
In Rev 11 the wrath came and it was time for the dead to be judged,
Revelation 11:
15Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.” 16And the twenty-four elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying,

“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
who is and who was,
for you have taken your great power
and begun to reign.
18The nations raged,
but your wrath came, (you can see that the wrath already came-it's at the end of the great tribulation and is recapitulated in Rev 20)
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”

Recapitulated in Rev 20:
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. 14Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The following verses make it clear that there is no more revelation coming.
Deuteronomy 29:29The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, so that we may follow all the words of this law.

Amos 3:7“For the Lord GOD does nothing without revealing his secret to his servants the prophets.

Jude 3Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

What's the reason you can't believe these words of Jesus? They are present tense indicative(factual) statements and can't be made more clear.
Revelation 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord ...
... He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. He who is the faithful witness to all these things ...

Revelation 22:20 - Nothing May Be Added

He who testifies to these things says, Yes, I am coming soon. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

biblehub.com

Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to ...
... "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. "Look, I am coming ...

Revelation 22:12 - Jesus is Coming

Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

biblehub.com

Revelation 3:11 I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your ...
... I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so ...

Revelation 3:11 - To the Church in Philadelphia

I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

biblehub.com

Revelation 22:7 "Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this ...
... "Look, I am coming soon! Blessed is the one who keeps the words of the prophecy written in this scroll." "Look, I am coming soon! Blessed ...

Revelation 22:7 - Jesus is Coming

Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.

biblehub.com

Rev 20:5 (ESV): The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. …

Those are “the dead” who are spoken of in derogatory terms, as above: “The rest of the dead” are derogatory terms. Why? Those are the dead who died in sin. They are disrespected in every verse they are spoken of. They and only they are judged at the Great White Throne of Judgment, after the Millennial Kingdom

keras · Apr 16, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
All of Rev 4-22 and Rev 3:10 remain unfulfilled and will only occur after the pre-Trib rapture (Rev 4:1).

It is this kind of wrong belief that Peter spoke against:

A letter to the peoples of God, scattered around the world:
Praise to God and to our Lord Jesus for the hope of salvation and for the protection of His power. Be joyful, although you may have to suffer for a little while, as you pass through the assayers fire.

Since Christ endured bodily suffering, you too must expect this judgement as the end of all days is upon us [you Christians], but do not be taken aback by the fiery ordeal which has come to test you as though you did not know it was coming.

All that has happened concerning Jesus, confirms for us the messages of the prophets, which you will all do well to take seriously. What they say has been given to us by the Holy Spirit and interpretation is by comparing scripture with scripture. Just as in the past there were false prophets and teachers, so it is now. Those who have misled My people will suffer dire punishment.

Note this: In the last days scoffers will come, they will mock and say: ‘What happened to His promised coming? Nothing has changed as yet’. They forget how God destroyed all the wicked peoples in Noah’s day and now the world is reserved for burning and again the godless will be destroyed. The great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath will come unexpectedly, with the heavens tearing apart, flames will envelope the earth and with a loud noise ALL the earth will be brought to judgement.

In expectation of this, do your best to be found at peace with God.

Friends: you have been warned, take care that you do not be taken in by wrong theories and false teachings, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be all the glory!
Ref: R.E.Bible 1 & 2 Peter, condensed.

keras · Apr 16, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Rev 20:5 (ESV): The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. …

Those are “the dead” who are spoken of in derogatory terms, as above: “The rest of the dead” are derogatory terms. Why? Those are the dead who died in sin. They are disrespected in every verse they are spoken of. They and only they are judged at the Great White Throne of Judgment, after the Millennial Kingdom

Sheer pretentious nonsense.
Rev 20:4 tells us who will be raised when Jesus Returns.
Rev 20:5 says: the rest of the dead must wait until the thousand years is over.

Verse 4; only the GT martyrs will be raised.
Verse 5 everybody else remain in their graves,, until after the Millennium then; raised to stand before God in Judgment. Rev 20:12-13

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 16, 2025

keras said:
It is this kind of wrong belief that Peter spoke against:

A letter to the peoples of God, scattered around the world:
Praise to God and to our Lord Jesus for the hope of salvation and for the protection of His power. Be joyful, although you may have to suffer for a little while, as you pass through the assayers fire.

Since Christ endured bodily suffering, you too must expect this judgement as the end of all days is upon us [you Christians], but do not be taken aback by the fiery ordeal which has come to test you as though you did not know it was coming.

All that has happened concerning Jesus, confirms for us the messages of the prophets, which you will all do well to take seriously. What they say has been given to us by the Holy Spirit and interpretation is by comparing scripture with scripture. Just as in the past there were false prophets and teachers, so it is now. Those who have misled My people will suffer dire punishment.

Note this: In the last days scoffers will come, they will mock and say: ‘What happened to His promised coming? Nothing has changed as yet’. They forget how God destroyed all the wicked peoples in Noah’s day and now the world is reserved for burning and again the godless will be destroyed. The great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath will come unexpectedly, with the heavens tearing apart, flames will envelope the earth and with a loud noise ALL the earth will be brought to judgement.

In expectation of this, do your best to be found at peace with God.

Friends: you have been warned, take care that you do not be taken in by wrong theories and false teachings, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To Him be all the glory!
Ref: R.E.Bible 1 & 2 Peter, condensed.

Apostle Peter was counseling his disciples and other followers. If you would read the whole chapter for a quoted verse, you will see that I am right. You keep on trying to associate your quoted verses, with the Trib. You are miss associating.

keras · Apr 16, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Apostle Peter was counseling his disciples and other followers.

Who we Christians are.
Peter 2:1-3 says:

keras said:
Just as in the past there were false prophets and teachers, so it is now. Those who have misled My people will suffer dire punishment.

Please understand the risk you are putting yourself in.
I want to invite you to sit under my vines and fig tree; Zechariah 3:10, but that may not be possible, if you keep n teaching wrong theories and making wild assertions.

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 17, 2025

keras said:
Who we Christians are.
Peter 2:1-3 says:

Please understand the risk you are putting yourself in.
I want to invite you to sit under my vines and fig tree; Zechariah 3:10, but that may not be possible, if you keep n teaching wrong theories and making wild assertions.

The “wild assertions” are yours. You repeatedly are quoting verses out of context and wrongly assigning them to inapplicable periods of time.

No person is judged twice. We are each judged just once. We Christians are raptured pre-Trib. Jesus said so in Rev 3:10, “I will keep you from the hour of trial.” We are only subjected to the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10) which occurs on the day of the rapture (2 Tim 4:8). That is our only judgment.

When the Trib ends, the Jews gathered in Matt 24:31 and the unbelievers who survive the Trib are judged in Matt 25:31-40 and Matt 25:41-46, respectively.

Who’s been judged so far upon Matt 25:46? We living (living now) and resurrected (1 Th 4:16) believers (2 Cor 5:10); the living and believing Jews (Matt 24:31); and the living and unbelieving survivors of the Trib.

This is what you will not admit is true: What group is not yet judged? The dead who died in sin. They are exclusively judged after the Millennial Kingdom in the Great White Throne of Judgment (Rev 20:11-15).

Again, every person is judged just once, and each judgment is final.

keras · Apr 17, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
every person is judged just once, and each judgment is final.

Yes; and that will happen for everybody at the GWT Judgment, after the Millenium. ALL the peoples, dead or alive; Rev 20:14-15
The Bema Judgment, is for the nations, not individuals. Matt 25:31-40 and the Prophecy in Matthew 25:46, refers to the GWT Judgment. Proved by how it is then that the righteous receive Eternal Life.

Youi have been warned for being a teacher of false theories. The Judgment could be hard for you.

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 17, 2025

keras said:
Yes; and that will happen for everybody at the GWT Judgment, after the Millenium. ALL the peoples, dead or alive; Rev 20:14-15
The Bema Judgment, is for the nations, not individuals. Matt 25:31-40 and the Prophecy in Matthew 25:46, refers to the GWT Judgment. Proved by how it is then that the righteous receive Eternal Life.

Youi have been warned for being a teacher of false theories. The Judgment could be hard for you.

Keras, you are lazy in your research. You go by one word: all; and you don’t define it properly.

Here’s 2 Cor 5:10 (NIV): For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Does “all” mean every person on Earth? Of course not. It means “we … all.” That means all of us believers: all living (living now) believers and resurrected (1 Th 4:16) believers will be at the Bema Seat.

Here’s Rev 20:13 (ESV): And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.

There’s your word, “all” regarding the GWTJ. Does “all” mean every person on Earth? Of course not. It means “the dead, great and small” (Rev 20:12 ESV).

The Bible proves that the GWTJ is only about “the dead were judged.” Who died and is relegated to the last judgment? Unbelievers who died in sin.

Again, does “all” mean “all” as you define it, in 2 Cor 5:10? Then why are you so lazy to say that “all” means “all” in Rev 20:12?

keras · Apr 17, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Here’s 2 Cor 5:10 (NIV): For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Does this truth say when it will take place?
No, we find that out from Revelation 20:11-15, AFTER the Millennium. I know that says God is the judge, but it will be Jesus who opens the Book of Life
Your peculiar ideas and twisted interpretations, leave you without any support, even from other rapture believers. You need to step back and really become sure of what is Truth and what is guesswork.

Douggg · Apr 17, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Does “all” mean every person on Earth? Of course not. It means “we … all.” That means all of us believers: all living (living now) believers and resurrected (1 Th 4:16) believers will be at the Bema Seat.

I agree.

Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

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Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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