• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Video: 'You would think we deported a candidate for father of the year'

GoldenBoy89

We're Still Here
Sep 25, 2012
25,236
27,646
LA
✟610,613.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
KRNV Video: Karoline Leavitt comments on Arbrego Garcia and victims of MS-13:

So well said.
Why did she bring up an entirely unrelated crime to try and make a point about Abrego Garcia?

There is no proof he’s MS13 or a criminal of any kind or even that he’s still alive. If that’s the case and I strongly believe it is, then this administration sent Mr Garcia to his death and are now trying to smear a man who cannot defend himself or his name.

Shame on this entire corrupt, criminal administration and everyone still supporting these monsters.
 
Upvote 0

Palmfever

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 5, 2019
1,127
669
Hawaii
✟286,980.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why did she bring up an entirely unrelated crime to try and make a point about Abrego Garcia?

There is no proof he’s MS13 or a criminal of any kind or even that he’s still alive. If that’s the case and I strongly believe it is, then this administration sent Mr Garcia to his death and are now trying to smear a man who cannot defend himself or his name.

Shame on this entire corrupt, criminal administration and everyone still supporting these monsters.
Former federal prosecutor Francey Hakes told Newsmax on Tuesday that liberals' insistence that an illegal immigrant from El Salvador living in Maryland didn't receive due process is a "complete lie."

Hakes joined "The Record With Greta Van Susteren" to wade into the "complicated case" of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who was sent to a maximum security prison in El Salvador by the Trump administration.

The White House asserts that he is a member of the criminal gang MS-13, which President Donald Trump has designated a foreign terrorist organization.

"I mean, the first thing to remember is that he is in the country illegally. And if you have crossed the border illegally, you are deportable by definition," Hakes said, noting that that alone didn't land Abrego Garcia in Centro de Confinamiento del Terrorismo (Terrorism Confinement Center), a maximum security prison in El Salvador.

It's what followed — that he admitted being a gang member, she said.

"When he was arrested or picked up in 2019, he had an immigration hearing. Lots of people are yelling online and on television that he hasn't received any due process. And that is a complete lie, because he did get the due process to which illegal aliens are entitled," Hakes said. "And at that hearing, the judge found that the evidence presented by DHS was credible, that he was a member of MS-13, which also made him deportable.

"Now, after that, he got an appeal. So that's the second bit of due process that he got. He got appellate level … judge panel to look at his case and to agree with the initial federal judge who found that he was deportable," Hakes added, setting up Abrego Garcia's biggest problem.

"Now, when he went to court, the judge, however, had some sympathy for his claim that if he were sent back to El Salvador, he might face violence from a rival gang. Now, what I've read, Greta, suggests that what that means is, if he was worried about violence from a rival gang in El Salvador, that he's effectively admitting he's part of a gang himself," Hakes said.

"And now that President Trump has designated MS-13 a foreign terrorist organization, he's no longer entitled to that withholding of the deportation that a judge in some sympathy gave him in 2019 because he was no longer entitled to claim asylum," she added.

Hakes also pushed back on the assertion that Abrego Garcia hasn't been convicted of a crime. That's irrelevant, she said.

"I think what people miss about being in a gang, because they say that he was never convicted of an actual crime, is they forget the policies around conspiracy," Hakes said, likening gang membership to belonging to the mafia.

"Every member of the gang is a member of a criminal conspiracy. And without every member, the gang doesn't succeed. And that is why membership in these gangs represents a clear and present danger to this country and our citizens," she said.
 

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
40,808
16,019
Fort Smith
✟1,334,890.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
The polished way she defends the indefensible chills my soul.
How can she look her own baby in the eyes without thinking of the atrocity committed against a tiny little boy whose father was illegally kidnapped and deported, snatched as he wept and cried?
I just watched her video report. It looked as if it had been prepared and written by someone else and that she was looking at it for the first time, almost like a spokesmodel, emotionally disconnected from the horrors and falsehoods she was promoting.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
11,369
5,323
Minnesota
✟299,743.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Why did she bring up an entirely unrelated crime to try and make a point about Abrego Garcia?

There is no proof he’s MS13 or a criminal of any kind or even that he’s still alive. If that’s the case and I strongly believe it is, then this administration sent Mr Garcia to his death and are now trying to smear a man who cannot defend himself or his name.

Shame on this entire corrupt, criminal administration and everyone still supporting these monsters.
Both the United States government and the El Salvadorian government have concluded, based on all of the evidence available to them, that he is an MS-13 gang member. MS-13 has tortured and killed many many victims. People in the United States and El Salvador have had enough.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Vambram

trophy33

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
12,752
5,104
European Union
✟211,835.00
Country
Czech Republic
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Both the United States government and the El Salvadorian government have concluded...
I do not know anything about this case, but I am surprised by your reasoning: "the government concluded". This is not how the law works, this is how tyranny works.

In the "law & order" society, which many Republicans seem to want, police needs to get evidence and charge, prosecutor needs to prosecute, defender needs to defend and a judge decides.
 
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
40,808
16,019
Fort Smith
✟1,334,890.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
iBoth the United States government and the El Salvadorian government have concluded, based on all of the evidence available to them, that he is an MS-13 gang member. MS-13 has tortured and killed many many victims. People in the United States and El Salvador have had enough.
A 9-0 Supreme Court decision, including very harsh statements from a number of the judges, shows me that the government did absolutely nothing (or perhaps even less than nothing) to find evidence to ascertain whether any of the people shipped to El Salvador had any gang connections or had committed any crimes.

"Administrative Errors" must be corrected. We're paying the Salvadoran dictator to house (if it can be called "housing") these prisoners, and the customer (the American people) is always right.
 
Upvote 0

Valletta

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2020
11,369
5,323
Minnesota
✟299,743.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The polished way she defends the indefensible chills my soul.
How can she look her own baby in the eyes without thinking of the atrocity committed against a tiny little boy whose father was illegally kidnapped and deported, snatched as he wept and cried?
Polished? She's just stating the facts. A lot of hard-core criminals do have children. The problem is that so many of the wealthy elite liberals here won't personally help the illegals. The Obamas refused to open up their estate in Martha's Vineyard when illegals could have used the land temporarily. But they seem perfectly fine on letting violent criminals prey on poor communities. The American people voted to have the violent criminals preying on our people deported when they voted for Trump.
 
Upvote 0

JosephZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2017
4,270
4,152
Davao City
Visit site
✟292,478.00
Country
Philippines
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Both the United States government and the El Salvadorian government have concluded, based on all of the evidence available to them, that he is an MS-13 gang member.
Plaintiff Abrego Garcia is not a member of or has no affiliation with Tren de Aragua, MS-13, or any other criminal or street gang. Although he has been accused of general “gang affiliation,” the U.S. government has never produced an iota of evidence to support this unfounded accusation.

Plaintiff Abrego Garcia has no criminal history. He has never been charged or convicted of any criminal charges, in the United States, El Salvador, or any other country.




Defendants have repeatedly admitted, they were legally prohibited from deporting Abrego Garcia to El Salvador. (Mr. Reuveni: “There’s no dispute that the order could not be used to send Mr. Abrego Garcia to El Salvador.”

Abrego Garcia lived in Maryland with his wife and their three children. He complied fully with all directives from ICE, including annual check-ins, and has never been charged with or convicted of any crime.

On March 15, 2025, without any notice, legal process, or hearing, ICE forcibly transported Abrego Garcia to the Terrorism Confinement Center (“CECOT”) in El Salvador, a notorious supermax prison known for widespread human rights violations.

Although the legal basis for the mass removal of hundreds of individuals to El Salvador remains disturbingly unclear, Abrego Garcia’s case is categorically different—there were no legal grounds whatsoever for his arrest, detention, or removal. Nor does any evidence suggest that Abrego Garcia is being held in CECOT at the behest of Salvadoran authorities to answer for crimes in that country. Rather, his detention appears wholly lawless.

Abrego Garcia is not being held for crimes committed in or against El Salvador, the United States, or anywhere else for that matter.

It is undisputed that “Abrego Garcia, was removed to El Salvador despite a grant of withholding of removal to that country.” Even more disturbing, the Defendants concede that it cannot even produce the documents which reflect any authority, lawful or otherwise, to transfer him to El Salvador.

The Defendants do not dispute that its expulsion of Abrego Garcia to El Salvador constitutes a final agency action. Nor do they dispute that the decision was without any lawful authority whatsoever. Nor have Defendants articulated any rationale for taking such action. Their action was lawless...

Defendants have claimed—without any evidence—that Abrego Garcia is a member of MS-13
and then housed him among the chief rival gang, Barrio 18. Not to mention that Barrio 18 is the very gang whose years’ long persecution of Abrego Garcia resulted in his withholding from removal to El Salvador.





"Defendants did not assert—at any point prior to or during the April 4, 2025, hearing—that Abrego Garcia was an “enemy combatant,” an “alien enemy” under the Alien Enemies Act, 50 U.S.C. § 21, or removable based on MS-13’s recent designation as a Foreign Terrorist Organization under 8 U.S.C. § 1189. Invoking such theories for the first time on appeal cannot cure the failure to present them before this Court. In any event, Defendants have offered no evidence linking Abrego Garcia to MS-13 or to any terrorist activity. And vague allegations of gang association alone do not supersede the express protections afforded under the INA, including 8 U.S.C. §§ 1231(b)(3)(A), 1229a, and 1229b"

"Defendants have claimed—without any evidence—that Abrego Garcia is a member of MS-13 and then housed him among the chief rival gang, Barrio 18."

"Defendants suggested in their response that the public retains an interest in not returning Abrego Garcia to the United States because “he is a danger to the community,” ECF No. 11, only to abandon this position at the hearing. Again, with good reason. No evidence before the Court connects Abrego Garcia to MS-13 or any other criminal organization."


 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

GoldenBoy89

We're Still Here
Sep 25, 2012
25,236
27,646
LA
✟610,613.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Both the United States government and the El Salvadorian government have concluded, based on all of the evidence available to them, that he is an MS-13 gang member. MS-13 has tortured and killed many many victims.
Oh? When was his trial?
 
Upvote 0

GoldenBoy89

We're Still Here
Sep 25, 2012
25,236
27,646
LA
✟610,613.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
She's just stating the facts.
You have verified these "facts" to be true or do you just believe what the government tells you?
 
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
40,808
16,019
Fort Smith
✟1,334,890.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
You have verified these "facts" to be true or do you just believe what the government tells you?
Well, denial of this monstrously evil action may be a way those who have placed their trust in 47 to protect themselves from experiencing the betrayal and shock they would feel.
Denial is the mark of a very good human being watching his faith fall apart.
 
Upvote 0

JosephZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 25, 2017
4,270
4,152
Davao City
Visit site
✟292,478.00
Country
Philippines
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Former federal prosecutor Francey Hakes told Newsmax on Tuesday that liberals' insistence that an illegal immigrant from El Salvador living in Maryland didn't receive due process is a "complete lie."
Lots of people are yelling online and on television that he hasn't received any due process. And that is a complete lie, because he did get the due process to which illegal aliens are entitled,"
The Supreme Court disagrees with Former federal prosecutor Francey Hakes.

As to Count II, the procedural due process claim, Abrego Garcia alleges that Defendants forced removal to El Salvador without any process constitutes a clear constitutional violation. This the Defendants also concede. But for completeness, the Court briefly addresses why the parties are correct. To succeed on a Fifth Amendment due process claim, the plaintiff must show that he possesses “a constitutionally cognizable life, liberty, or property interest”; that he was deprived of that interest because of “some form of state action”; and “that the procedures employed were constitutionally inadequate.”

Abrego Garcia has demonstrated that he had a liberty interest by virtue of the INA in avoiding forcible removal to El Salvador. “In order for a statute to create a vested liberty or property interest giving rise to procedural due process protection, it must confer more than a mere expectation (even one supported by consistent government practice) of a benefit.” There must be entitlement to the benefit as directed by statute, and the statute must “‘act to limit meaningfully the discretion of the decision-makers.’” Here, the statutory scheme which conferred withholding of removal also entitled Abrego Garcia to not be returned to El Salvador absent Case 8:25-cv-00951-PX Document 31 Filed 04/06/25 Page 18 of 22 98a 19 process. Further, the statutes at issue eliminated the discretion altogether. Thus, this element is easily met

Defendants deprived Abrego Garcia of this right without any procedural protections due to him. Indeed, nothing in the record suggests that Abrego Garcia received any process at all.




I agree with the Court’s order that the proper remedy is to provide Abrego Garcia with all the process to which he would have been entitled had he not been unlawfully removed to El Salvador. That means the Government must comply with its obligation to provide Abrego Garcia with “due process of law,” including notice and an opportunity to be heard, in any future proceedings.

Federal law governing detention and removal of immigrants continues, of course, to be binding as well. See 8 U. S. C. §1226(a) (requiring a warrant before a noncitizen “may be arrested and detained pending a decision” on removal); 8 CFR§287.8(c)(2)(ii) (2024) (requiring same); see also 8 CFR§241.4(l) (in order to revoke conditional release, the Government must provide adequate notice and “promptly” arrange an “initial informal interview . . . to afford the alien an opportunity to respond to the reasons for the revocation stated in the notification”).



It's what followed — that he admitted being a gang member, she said.
Garcia has denied being a member of a gang.

During a full evidentiary hearing
[in 2019], Abrego Garcia offered his own sworn testimony, that of his wife, Vasquez Sura, and voluminous evidence showing he was not a gang member and was eligible for protection under federal law.

The immigration judge ordered withholding of removal on October 10, 2019. The judge found Abrego Garcia “credible,” observing that his “testimony was internally consistent, externally consistent” with the “substantial documentation,” and “appeared free of embellishment.”



"When he was arrested or picked up in 2019, he had an immigration hearing... And at that hearing, the judge found that the evidence presented by DHS was credible, that he was a member of MS-13, which also made him deportable.
That "evidence" was weak at best.

In 2019, the Government commenced removal proceedings. SA146. Abrego Garcia moved for release on bond. SA146. The Government opposed, claiming he was an MS-13 gang member. SA146. The Government offered two pieces of “evidence”: first, Abrego Garcia was wearing “his Chicago Bulls hat and hoodie,” and second, “a vague, uncorroborated allegation from a confidential informant claiming he belonged to MS-13’s ‘Western’ clique in New York—a place he has never lived.” The immigration judge was “reluctant to give evidentiary weight to the Respondent’s clothing as an indication of gang affiliation,” but nevertheless refused to release Abrego Garcia on bond.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ozso

Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
26,105
14,437
63
PNW
✟915,312.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Both the United States government and the El Salvadorian government have concluded, based on all of the evidence available to them, that he is an MS-13 gang member. MS-13 has tortured and killed many many victims. People in the United States and El Salvador have had enough.
He's their poster child for showing off how empathetic, compassionate and nonjudgmental they constantly claim to be. While accusing everyone else of being coldhearted and hateful. He's a prop, a tool, a soapbox for virtue signaling.
 

Oompa Loompa

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2020
8,207
4,321
Louisiana
✟273,673.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The polished way she defends the indefensible chills my soul.
How can she look her own baby in the eyes without thinking of the atrocity committed against a tiny little boy whose father was illegally kidnapped and deported, snatched as he wept and cried?
I just watched her video report. It looked as if it had been prepared and written by someone else and that she was looking at it for the first time, almost like a spokesmodel, emotionally disconnected from the horrors and falsehoods she was promoting.
Is it then in your opinion that if someone has children, they are immune to the consequences of their actions to spare those children from missing their daddy?
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
10,867
8,920
64
Martinez
✟1,081,017.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
KRNV Video: Karoline Leavitt comments on Arbrego Garcia and victims of MS-13:

So well said.
So well said however, all lies.
Lie # 1: " He is an MS13 gang member.
Truth: Garcia has never lived in NY, where an unsubstantiated claim was made that he was a member there. He has no criminal record in the US or El Salvador.
Lie # 2: " He is an illegal alien"
Truth: He was granted withholding of removal to El Salvador. Withholding of removal is a legal status that protects an individual from being deported to a specific country where they face a likelihood of persecution.
Lie#3:" He was hiding from immigration"
Truth: He was living in Maryland with his wife and children, who are all U.S. citizens.
He was reporting to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) annually. He was an apprentice steel worker in plain sight.
Let us reason please.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

dis Member
Aug 28, 2007
26,709
18,477
Colorado
✟510,474.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Doesnt matter who he is or isnt. The deportation was illegal.

If the Trump admin persists in thinking it can violate the law with impunity, then it is the criminal.
 
Upvote 0

FAITH-IN-HIM

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2024
1,375
908
WI
✟39,419.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
KRNV Video: Karoline Leavitt comments on Arbrego Garcia and victims of MS-13:

So well said.

He may be worse human on earth and he has no right to be in America.

But

For God so loved the world ( Ábrego García ) that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”

We should treat him with respect and dignity, irrespective of our opinion on whether he should be deported.

It's appalling to see how many so-called Christian who recite John 3:16 and claim Jesus loves everyone are attacking Garcia and his family for political gain.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Belk
Upvote 0

durangodawood

dis Member
Aug 28, 2007
26,709
18,477
Colorado
✟510,474.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
He's their poster child for showing off how empathetic, compassionate and nonjudgmental they constantly claim to be. While accusing everyone else of being coldhearted and hateful. He's a prop, a tool, a soapbox for virtue signaling.
You can claim that the people here who take an opposite view from yours are disingenuous.

But I will point out your failure to make headway on the facts and principles of this matter, which is really where the conversation should be centered.
 
Upvote 0