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Limited atonement !

fhansen

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One is not walking in light but darkness who rejects limited atonement and the other grace doctrines known as Tulip
Well that's called ignorance, but either way even one who accepts TULIP isn't necessarily walking in the light.
 
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fhansen

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I imagine you have a long list. A skewed gospel is no gospel at all.
Well, you certainly aren't without a list yourself and I was being charitable; there are lots of variations on the gospel out there and some are farther away from the truth and some are closer. And most believers in any case pretty well live as if they know they must 'act justly and love mercy and walk humbly with their God' (Micah 6-8), in the light, as children of God should. And that theology is far more crucial than a lot of the other stuff.
 
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Brightfame52

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Also in Jn 3:16 those who God so Loved that He gave His Only begotten for, they are the Sheep. They are the Ones Believing and have Eternal or Everlasting Life. Its confirmed by Jn 10:11

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. This confirms that God gave His Only begotten Son

Jn 10:28

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. This confirms they are given Eternal or Everlasting Life !

Jn 10:26,27

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

This proves that its the Sheep who are the whosoever is believing in Jn 3:16.

And they're the Ones Christ laid down His Life for Jn 10:11,15 2
 
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Brightfame52

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Well that's called ignorance, but either way even one who accepts TULIP isn't necessarily walking in the light.
You will see in the Day of Judgment that Tulip Truths are the Gospel and you have been deceived.
 
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Rescued One

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Well that's called ignorance, but either way even one who accepts TULIP isn't necessarily walking in the light.
If a person IS walking in the Light and is imperfect in the eyes of critics, by what standard is he imperfect?
 
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Rescued One

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Well, you certainly aren't without a list yourself and I was being charitable; there are lots of variations on the gospel out there and some are farther away from the truth and some are closer. And most believers in any case pretty well live as if they know they must 'act justly and love mercy and walk humbly with their God' (Micah 6-8), in the light, as children of God should. And that theology is far more crucial than a lot of the other stuff.
What do you call other stuff? The word "stuff'" could refer to anything. Please clarify.
 
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Rescued One

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Was that supposed to address my post somehow?
Your post referred to walking in the Light. Those whom God is saving ARE walking in the Light. We have been saved by Him, not by things we have done or are doing. If we are being sanctified, God isn't finished with us, but critics might still accuse us rather than notice the changes HE has made.
 
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fhansen

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Your post referred to walking in the Light. Those whom God is saving ARE walking in the Light. We have been saved by Him, not by things we have done or are doing. If we are being sanctified, God isn't finished with us, but critics might still accuse us rather than notice the changes HE has made.
I understand that that's how its meant to be. I also understand that no believer is forced to remain in Him and that walking in the darkness is still a possibility. And that's exactly why believers continue to sin. To the extent that they don't sin, they're walking fully and only in the light. To the extent that they do sin, they're walking away from it. To the extent that they never sin, they would be perfected in love: that's a one-to-one "equation", so to speak: to love God and neighbor perfectly would be to exclude sin completely and absolutely. And that's a work of God's in us that He's patient in achievng as He intends to draw us more and more on board with His work, with His love.

Anyway, probably the best understanding of this is to be found in the 1st letter of John.
 
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BibleBeliever1611

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JOHN 3:18
How do you even get calvinism out of that verse? I don't understand.
EPHESIANS 1:4 NIV
The "us" is that verse is not referring to all believers, is it? If calvinism was true, how can it be so difficult to just find one clear verse about it?
JOHN 6:37 NIV
"Giveth" in what sense? What do you do with verses like John 3.16 where is says God so loved the world? World is not just some part of the world, no, but the whole world. "Whosoever" is not just some people, no, but ANY person. It doesn't say that whosoever out of the elect, just whosoever period.

Additional question. What sense does it make that Jesus is also the savior of the non-elect if God doesn't even want the non-elect to be saved? Why is Jesus literally their savior then?
 
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fhansen

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What do you call other stuff? The word "stuff'" could refer to anything. Please clarify.
Yes, I could've been more clear there. I mean, for example, you make limited atonement and TULIP into sort of article of faith acid tests which determine whether the gospel is accepted or rejected. And while I reject much of TULIP, I don't deny your faith, or view it as displeasing to God. Any faith that acknowledges the true God-as revealed by His Son- as God and changes us in such a way that we being to follow Him, walking in His ways, loving Him and neighbor as we should, is a faith that at least covers the essentials.
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6

Of course, we only benefit from having our theology as correct as it can be but some things are more critical than others.
 
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fhansen

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If a person IS walking in the Light and is imperfect in the eyes of critics, by what standard is he imperfect?
The standard is sin, which opposes the light. If he's perfectly sinless then it matters not what his critics say-Jesus, Himself, was accused of sin.
 
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How do you even get calvinism out of that verse? I don't understand.

The "us" is that verse is not referring to all believers, is it? If calvinism was true, how can it be so difficult to just find one clear verse about it?

"Giveth" in what sense? What do you do with verses like John 3.16 where is says God so loved the world? World is not just some part of the world, no, but the whole world. "Whosoever" is not just some people, no, but ANY person. It doesn't say that whosoever out of the elect, just whosoever period.

Additional question. What sense does it make that Jesus is also the savior of the non-elect if God doesn't even want the non-elect to be saved? Why is Jesus literally their savior then?
If God loved the WHOLE world, we'd all be Univesalists, but He hates the workers of iniquity. He allows sin and He allowed Satan to tempt Eve. He allows wickedness. He allows child abuse, etc.
 
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The standard is sin, which opposes the light. If he's perfectly sinless then it matters not what his critics say-Jesus, Himself, was accused of sin.
Do you think that it's okay To judge people who are imperfect? Do you think non-Calvinists are perfect? No, so you didn't need to suggest that some of us aren't being judged by others.
 
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fhansen

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If God loved the WHOLE world, we'd all be Univesalists, but He hates the workers of iniquity. He allows sin and He allowed Satan to tempt Eve. He allows wickedness. He allows child abuse, etc.
He allows freedom-because He wants us to choose to use it rightly instead of abusing it. And He gives us the grace, by the Holy Spirit, to do just that without coverting us into automatons who couldn't do otherwise. That's how He's dealt with man since the beginning. It's only because He values that freedom so highly that sin/evil is even possible.
 
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fhansen

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Do you think that it's okay To judge people who are imperfect? Do you think non-Calvinists are perfect? No, so you didn't need to suggest that some of us aren't being judged by others.
Sorry-not sure what you're meaning to say here. The standard for what constitutes sin is God's justice, His love to put it best. And that's exactly what He means to cultivate in us as He transforms us into His image. Jesus didn't come just so we could remain as we are-in our sins.
 
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Yes, I could've been more clear there. I mean, for example, you make limited atonement and TULIP into sort of article of faith acid tests which determine whether the gospel is accepted or rejected. And while I reject much of TULIP, I don't deny your faith, or view it as displeasing to God. Any faith that acknowledges the true God-as revealed by His Son- as God and changes us in such a way that we being to follow Him, walking in His ways, loving Him and neighbor as we should, is a faith that at least covers the essentials.
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6

Of course, we only benefit from having our theology as correct as it can be but some things are more critical than others.
I don't disagree. People either believe in Limited Atonement or don't. But believing in unlimited atonement has never been proven.


Ephesians 2
4But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in our trespasses. It is by grace you have been saved! 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages He might display the surpassing riches of His grace, demonstrated by His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Our faith and salvation are not rewards for good behavior.
 
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