Limited atonement !

[fhansen]

You reject limited atonement you reject Christ and His Gospel that's all to it!

I reject your private, personal opinion, and that's all there is to it.

 

[Rescued One]

No, I simply believe man's will plays a role, no.matter how small, in whether or not he's ultimately going to value and love God and so live with Him eternally-or otherwise. And God foreknows those who will do so. The foundation is grace, and yet grace can be resisted; man can say "no" at any point along the way. Without grace, he cannot say "yes", and he'd have nothing to say yes to. But he can always refuse to open the door to begin with, or turn back away later, as well.

Not biblical and not surprising. You reject Ephesians 2. The people who don't accept salvation don't love God.

 

[Rescued One]

Ok. We certainly aren't going to resolve this one now. I'd recommend reading both the Bible and history, the views of the faith by the early Christians in any case.

"Early Christians" are not authorities. Their writings are not scripture. You reject Ephesians 2.

 

[Rescued One]

No, I simply believe man's will plays a role, no.matter how small, in whether or not he's ultimately going to value and love God and so live with Him eternally-or otherwise. And God foreknows those who will do so. The foundation is grace, and yet grace can be resisted; man can say "no" at any point along the way. Without grace, he cannot say "yes", and he'd have nothing to say yes to. But he can always refuse to open the door to begin with, or turn back away later, as well.

A person whom God is saving doesn't turn away. You can't thwart God's plans and make Him your puppet.

 

[fhansen]

Not biblical and not surprising. You reject Ephesians 2. The people who don't accept salvation don't love God.

Yes, love of God, fully perfected, is salvation, it could be said. And yet a person can prove to be poor soil, attracted to the message for a time, for a season, and then letting go, turning back away to worldly attractions and concerns. And no one can predict their own perseverance, BTW, which is why we’re instructed to persevere, to strive, to be vigilant, to,
“Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.” Heb 12:14

 

[fhansen]

"Early Christians" are not authorities. Their writings are not scripture. You reject Ephesians 2.

Well, they’re at least in a better place to be an authority than you are, picking up the Bible some 20 centuries after the fact and rendering your private opinion/interpretation on it-based on a single chapter of Ephesians in this case? Anyone can turn to God, who wants none to perish (2 Pet 3:9), and anyone can also turn away from Him. We can do the works prepared for us in Christ Jesus and we can also fail to do them. We can fail to remain in Him and in His kindness (John 15:5, Rom 11:22). Rather than isolating ourselves in particular passages and concepts we need to consider all of Scripture and Paul has further instruction and warning for believers:

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. Rom 8:12-14

The surest way of knowing that you’re one of His is if you’re producing good fruit: overcoming sin, doing good, loving well to put it best. The rest is pretty much just talk.

 

[fhansen]

A person whom God is saving doesn't turn away. You can't thwart God's plans and make Him your puppet.

Of course not, and yet for your own highest good He refuses to make you His puppet, which means you can still turn away. Now, if you find yourself perfected in love, no longer capable of being attracted away by lesser, created, things, a love born out by fruitful actions for Himself as well as neighbor in this life, then, yes, you would never turn away; your heart would be fully His. But meanwhile your freedom remains and you’re still in the midst of a battlefield, between good and evil, and He, alone knows whose names are written in the Book of Life with 100% certainty and whose are not, who will overcome and persevere according to His will and who will not.

 

[Brightfame52]

Who are the Us Here ?

Rom 5:8

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


This US refers to the Sheep as Per Jesus Christ words Jn 10:11

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Or its appropriate to say the US in Rom 5:8 refers to Gods Elect as it does in Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Its clearly seen here that Christ died in Vs 34 is connected to why none can lay anything to the charge of Gods Elect in Vs 33 2

 

[Brightfame52]

I reject your private, personal opinion, and that's all there is to it.

It so happens my opinion is founded upon the scripture which shows me that Limited atonement is a basic Gospel Truth, and if its rejected, the Gospel is rejected.

 

[fhansen]

It so happens my opinion is founded upon the scripture which shows me that Limited atonement is a basic Gospel Truth, and if its rejected, the Gospel is rejected.

I see, so that’s pope Brightframe’s infallible pronouncement. Even tho others may base their unlimited atonement opinion on scripture as well.

 

[Brightfame52]

I see, so that’s pope Brightframe’s infallible pronouncement. Even tho others may base their unlimited atonement opinion on scripture as well.

Thats because those who believe in unlimited atonement are deceived.

 

[Rescued One]

Of course not, and yet for your own highest good He refuses to make you His puppet, which means you can still turn away. Now, if you find yourself perfected in love, no longer capable of being attracted away by lesser, created, things, a love born out by fruitful actions for Himself as well as neighbor in this life, then, yes, you would never turn away; your heart would be fully His. But meanwhile your freedom remains and you’re still in the midst of a battlefield, between good and evil, and He, alone knows whose names are written in the Book of Life with 100% certainty and whose are not, who will overcome and persevere according to His will and who will not.

God doesn't allow Satan to pull away a person He has saved. He didn't make us puppets, He made us new creatures. We don't earn His blessings causing Him to become our servant.

He began the work in us and will complete it rather than abandon us. No one, not even Satan, can snatch us from Him. His sheep know His voice and they follow Him.

 

[Rescued One]

No, I simply believe man's will plays a role, no.matter how small, in whether or not he's ultimately going to value and love God and so live with Him eternally-or otherwise. And God foreknows those who will do so. The foundation is grace, and yet grace can be resisted; man can say "no" at any point along the way. Without grace, he cannot say "yes", and he'd have nothing to say yes to. But he can always refuse to open the door to begin with, or turn back away later, as well.

Those God is saving belong to Christ. Those who do not have the Spirit of Christ do not belong to Him. We have His Spirit and a new nature. Like sheep under a Good Shepherd we know Who cares for us. Children of wrath are slaves to Satan, but we have been set FREE!

 

[Rescued One]

Well, they’re at least in a better place to be an authority than you are, picking up the Bible some 20 centuries after the fact and rendering your private opinion/interpretation on it-based on a single chapter of Ephesians in this case?

I don't base my faith on a single chapter of what God tells us. But some people think they are Christians and reject God's words in Ephesians. 20 centuries doesn't render Scripture meaningless. The Bible was God's word when He gave it to man and it is still true todsy.

Anyone can turn to God, who wants none to perish (2 Pet 3:9), and anyone can also turn away from Him. We can do the works prepared for us in Christ Jesus and we can also fail to do them. We can fail to remain in Him and in His kindness (John 15:5, Rom 11:22). Rather than isolating ourselves in particular passages and concepts we need to consider all of Scripture and Paul has further instruction and warning for believers:

When people have the Spirit of Christ, they belong to Him. "Belong" not temporary possessions.

“Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. Rom 8:12-14

The surest way of knowing that you’re one of His is if you’re producing good fruit: overcoming sin, doing good, loving well to put it best. The rest is pretty much just talk.

We know He is with us. Works that we do are for His glory and our sanctificstion would be impossible without Him.

 

[Rescued One]

Yes, love of God, fully perfected, is salvation, it could be said. And yet a person can prove to be poor soil, attracted to the message for a time, for a season, and then letting go, turning back away to worldly attractions and concerns. And no one can predict their own perseverance, BTW, which is why we’re instructed to persevere, to strive, to be vigilant, to,
“Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.” Heb 1

Salvation is a gift of God. It isn't something we earned. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, He saved us! He's not going to UNSAVE us! We have passed from death to life! We have the imputed righteousness of Christ, so we don't struggle to establish our own righteousness.

The life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God. He gave His life for me!

 

[Rescued One]

Salvation is a gift of God. It isn't something we earned. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy, He saved us! He's not going to UNSAVE us! We have passed from death to life! We have the imputed righteousness of Christ, so we don't struggle to establish our own righteousness.

The life I now live, I live by faith in the Son of God. He gave His life for me!

 

[fhansen]

Thats because those who believe in unlimited atonement are deceived.

Good for you. I just wouldn't get too far away from that evidence of good fruit idea. But I assume you're already there. Those who know God walk in the light and love Him and others well.

 

[Brightfame52]

Good for you. I just wouldn't get too far away from that evidence of good fruit idea. But I assume you're already there. Those who know God walk in the light and love Him and others well.

One is not walking in light but darkness who rejects limited atonement and the other grace doctrines known as Tulip

 

[Rescued One]

I'm just going to be honest, if calvinism was true then I would hate that. I would be disgusted by that. But thank God it's not true at all proven by the most famous verse of the whole Bible, John 3:16.

JOHN 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

EPHESIANS 1:4 NIV
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

EPHESIANS 1:4 NLT
God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure.

JOHN 6:37 NIV
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

 

[Rescued One]

Good for you. I just wouldn't get too far away from that evidence of good fruit idea. But I assume you're already there. Those who know God walk in the light and love Him and others well.

We are being sanctified with LIVING faith. God doesn't bestow dead faith.