The Hebrew word עולם/olam means eternal, everlasting, forever etc.

Der Alte · Feb 15, 2025

In the following 48 vss. the Hebrew word "olam/עולם" is defined within the text as eternal/everlasting/forever. The "defining" words are bolded. No quotes from "scholars" or "experts," scripture only. So simple a child can understand.

[1] Ecclesiastes 3:14

(14) I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: [עולם] nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

[2]Psalms 37:28

(28) For the LORD loveth justice, and forsaketh not His saints; they are preserved for ever; [עולם] but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

[3]Psalms 45:17

(17) (45:18) I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations; therefore shall the peoples praise thee for ever and ever. [לעלם ועד]

[4]Isaiah 51:6

(6) Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath; for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner; but My salvation shall be forever, [עולם] and My favour shall not be abolished.

[5]Isaiah 55:13

(13) Instead of the thorn shall come up the cypress, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle; and it shall be to the LORD for a memorial, for an everlasting [עולם] sign that shall not be cut off.

[6]Isaiah 56:5

(5) Even unto them will I give in My house and within My walls a monument and a memorial better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting [עולם] memorial, that shall not be cut off.

[7]Jeremiah 23:40

(40) and I will bring an everlasting [עולם] reproach upon you, and a perpetual [עולם] shame, which shall not be forgotten.

[8]Jeremiah 31:40

(40) And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever. [עולם]

[9]Jeremiah 50:5

(5) They shall inquire concerning Zion with their faces hitherward: 'Come ye, and join yourselves to the LORD in an everlasting [עולם] covenant that shall not be forgotten.'

[10]Jeremiah 51:39

(39) With their poison I will prepare their feast, and I will make them drunken, that they may be convulsed, and sleep a perpetual [עולם] sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.

List of 48 vss. which define/describe "olam" as eternal/everlasting.
Ecclesiastes 3:14, Psalms 37:28, Psalms 45:17, Isaiah 55:13, Isaiah 56:5, Jeremiah 23:40, Jeremiah 31:40, Jeremiah 50:5, Jeremiah 51:39, Jeremiah 51:57, Ezekiel 26:21, Ezekiel 27:36, Ecclesiastes 9:6, 1 Kings 9:3, 1 Chronicles 16:36, 1 Chronicles 29:10, Psalms 10:16, Psalms 21:4, Psalms 33:11, Psalms 41:13, Psalms 45:6, Psalms 48:14, Psalms 90:2, Psalms 100:5, Psalms 102:12, Psalms 106:31, Psalms 106:48, Psalms 111:8, Psalms 119:44, Psalms 121:8, Psalms 135:13, Psalms 145:1, Psalms 145:2, Psalms 145:13, Psalms 145:21, Psalms 146:10, Proverbs 8:23, Isaiah 9:7, Isaiah 30:8, Isaiah 34:10, Isaiah 45:17, Isaiah 51:8, Jeremiah 7:7, Jeremiah 25:5, Lamentations 5:19,

Aaron112 · Feb 15, 2025

Der Alte said:
[10]Jeremiah 51:39
(39) With their poison I will prepare their feast, and I will make them drunken, that they may be convulsed, and sleep a perpetual [עולם] sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.

Looks to me like this refers to those in cults today, main stream cults, false gospels deceiving multitudes - God may not save them , but instead give them up to their own poison to stay dead and never ever receive forgiveness nor eternal life.

Der Alte · Feb 15, 2025

Aaron112 said:
Looks to me like this refers to those in cults today, main stream cults, false gospels deceiving multitudes - God may not save them , but instead give them up to their own poison to stay dead and never ever receive forgiveness nor eternal life.

Probably had a lot of that in days gone by, too.

Aaron112 · Feb 15, 2025

Der Alte said:
Probably had a lot of that in days gone by, too.

Are billions of people gullible then today, or can they be utterly deceived by darkness today without being gullible ?

Realize "gullible" will not be recognized as an excuse that could save their soul on judgment day.

Der Alte · Feb 19, 2025

The silence in this thread is deafening!

Joseph G · Feb 19, 2025

Well I'm game, but a bit confused. What is the point of your OP? I have an inkling, but don't wish to presume.

Der Alte · Feb 19, 2025

Joseph G said:
Well I'm game, but a bit confused. What is the point of your OP? I have an inkling, but don't wish to presume.

There are members here who claim the "olam" never means eternal/forever/everlasting etc. Since I am retired X3 one might say I have a lot of spare time I thought I might address some of the incorrect interpretations of the Hebrew and Greek which I often see.

Joseph G · Feb 19, 2025

Der Alte said:
There are members here who claim the "olam" never means eternal/forever/everlasting etc. Since I am retired X3 one might say I have a lot of spare time I thought I might address some of the incorrect interpretations of the Hebrew and Greek which I often see.

Are they debating against the doctrine of eternal torment vs. annihilation, or in reference to something else?

Der Alte · Feb 19, 2025

Joseph G said:
Are they debating against the doctrine of eternal torment vs. annihilation, or in reference to something else?

Both, they believe that everyone will be saved no matter what. And of course they believe that the Hebrew word olam does not mean eternal and the Greek word aionios does not mean eternal.

Der Alte · Mar 6, 2025

Der Alte said:
Both, they believe that everyone will be saved no matter what. And of course they believe that the Hebrew word olam does not mean eternal and the Greek word aionios does not mean eternal.

BUMP for further discussion.

BelieveItOarKnot · Mar 7, 2025

Der Alte said:
The silence in this thread is deafening!

IF you're using the OP to refute certain sects of Christian universalism, you'd be only partially right as to those to whom it's directed.

However not all Christian universalists buy into the temporary age theory postulated by some universalists. They do have some points in their behalf, just as your claims have. You probably also realize that these subjects can be purposefully complicated. Almost designed to segment people.

Do you understand the Divine Principle that God Purposefully keeps people divided because we all have evil present within us?

IS that evil present ever justified, faithful, or even less, completely correct? Uh, I would say never.

It's hard to shoe horn everyone, ain't it?

ozso · Mar 7, 2025

Der Alte said:
The silence in this thread is deafening!

That's because you scared off all the URites ^_^

ozso · Mar 7, 2025

Der Alte said:
There are members here who claim the "olam" never means eternal/forever/everlasting etc. Since I am retired X3 one might say I have a lot of spare time I thought I might address some of the incorrect interpretations of the Hebrew and Greek which I often see.

I don't recall it being said olam never means eternal, but rather sometimes it's used figuratively. Like when Jonah says he's been inside the great fish forever (olam). As one example I recall offhand.

Der Alte · Mar 7, 2025

ozso said:
I don't recall it being said olam never means eternal, but rather sometimes it's used figuratively. Like when Jonah says he's been inside the great fish forever (olam). As one example I recall offhand.

It has been said to me right here in CF, "Professor "X" at a big college said that olam never means eternal." And I agree with you "olam" is sometimes used figuratively. If you are here for a while you will see it.

ozso · Mar 7, 2025

Der Alte said:
It has been said to me right here in CF, "Professor "X" at a big college said that olam never means eternal." And I agree with you "olam" is sometimes used figuratively. If you are here for a wile you will see it.

Taking a quick glance I see there's some articles on it. One mentions Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum saying:

Notes From Dr. Fruchtenbaum (Ariel Ministries):

The Concept of Eternity.

The simple, basic truth is that Classical Hebrew, the Hebrew of the Old Testament Scriptures, has no term that carries the concept of "eternity." There are phrases that carry this concept, such as "without end," but there is not a single word that carries the concept of eternity as there is in English.

To focus on the meaning of the term for ever, here are some things to be kept in mind.

First, the Hebrew word is olam. The word itself simply means "long duration," "antiquity," "futurity," "until the end of a period of time." That period of time is determined by the context. Sometimes it is the length of a man's life, sometimes it is an age, and sometimes it is a dispensation.

The second thing to keep in mind is that there are two Hebrew forms of olam. The first form is le-olam, which means "unto an age." And the second form is ad-olam, which means "until an age." However, neither of these forms carry the English meaning of "forever." Although it has been translated that way in English, the Hebrew does not carry the concept of eternity as the English word "forever" does.

The third thing to keep in mind is that the word olam, le-olam, or ad-olam, sometimes means only up "to the end of a man's life." For example, it is used of someone's lifetime (Ex. 14:13), of a slave's life (Ex. 21:6; Lev. 25:46; Deut. 15:17), of Samuel's life (I Sam. 1:22; 2:35), of the lifetimes of David and Jonathan (I Sam. 20:23), and of David's lifetime (I Sam. 27:12; 28:2; I Chr. 28:4). While the English reads for ever, obviously from the context it does not mean "forever" in the sense of eternity, but only up to the end of the person's life.

The fourth thing to keep in mind about the meaning of olam is that it sometimes means only "an age" or "dispensation." For example, Deuteronomy 23:3 uses the term for ever but limits the term to only ten generations. Here it obviously carries the concept of an age. In 2 Chronicles 7:16, it is used only for the period of the First Temple. So, again, the word for ever in Hebrew does not mean "eternal" as it does in English; it means up to the end of a period of time, either a man's life, or an age, or a dispensation.(2)

How long is forever?

This page looks at the question of how long is forever - in the context of the hebrew word “olam.”

jewishroots.net

Der Alte · Mar 7, 2025

ozso said:
Taking a quick glance I see there's some articles on it. One mentions Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum saying:

Notes From Dr. Fruchtenbaum (Ariel Ministries):

The Concept of Eternity.

The simple, basic truth is that Classical Hebrew, the Hebrew of the Old Testament Scriptures, has no term that carries the concept of "eternity." There are phrases that carry this concept, such as "without end," but there is not a single word that carries the concept of eternity as there is in English.

To focus on the meaning of the term for ever, here are some things to be kept in mind.

First, the Hebrew word is olam. The word itself simply means "long duration," "antiquity," "futurity," "until the end of a period of time." That period of time is determined by the context. Sometimes it is the length of a man's life, sometimes it is an age, and sometimes it is a dispensation.

The second thing to keep in mind is that there are two Hebrew forms of olam. The first form is le-olam, which means "unto an age." And the second form is ad-olam, which means "until an age." However, neither of these forms carry the English meaning of "forever." Although it has been translated that way in English, the Hebrew does not carry the concept of eternity as the English word "forever" does.

The third thing to keep in mind is that the word olam, le-olam, or ad-olam, sometimes means only up "to the end of a man's life." For example, it is used of someone's lifetime (Ex. 14:13), of a slave's life (Ex. 21:6; Lev. 25:46; Deut. 15:17), of Samuel's life (I Sam. 1:22; 2:35), of the lifetimes of David and Jonathan (I Sam. 20:23), and of David's lifetime (I Sam. 27:12; 28:2; I Chr. 28:4). While the English reads for ever, obviously from the context it does not mean "forever" in the sense of eternity, but only up to the end of the person's life.

The fourth thing to keep in mind about the meaning of olam is that it sometimes means only "an age" or "dispensation." For example, Deuteronomy 23:3 uses the term for ever but limits the term to only ten generations. Here it obviously carries the concept of an age. In 2 Chronicles 7:16, it is used only for the period of the First Temple. So, again, the word for ever in Hebrew does not mean "eternal" as it does in English; it means up to the end of a period of time, either a man's life, or an age, or a dispensation.(2)

How long is forever?

This page looks at the question of how long is forever - in the context of the hebrew word “olam.”

jewishroots.net

Can you recognize the glaring error here? Please see my post #1 this thread where I show using scripture alone that olam means eternal. While professor Fruit Tree [Fruchtenbaum] is a well known scholar a word, any word cannot have a dozen contradictory meanings. Thus, words are sometimes used figuratively or hyperbolically. E.g. Peter was not literally Satan when Jesus called him that. Herod was not literally a fox when Jesus called him that. The sons of John were not literally sons of thunder when Jesus called them that.

Der Alte · Mar 7, 2025

BelieveItOarKnot said:
IF you're using the OP to refute certain sects of Christian universalism, you'd be only partially right as to those to whom it's directed.

However not all Christian universalists buy into the temporary age theory postulated by some universalists. They do have some points in their behalf, just as your claims have. You probably also realize that these subjects can be purposefully complicated. Almost designed to segment people.

Do you understand the Divine Principle that God Purposefully keeps people divided because we all have evil present within us?

IS that evil present ever justified, faithful, or even less, completely correct? Uh, I would say never.

It's hard to shoe horn everyone, ain't it?

I didn't try to shoe horn anyone. I note that you completely avoided the topic of the thread.

ozso · Mar 7, 2025

Der Alte said:
Can you recognize the glaring error here? Please see my post #1 this thread where I show using scripture alone that olam means eternal. While professor Fruit Tree [Fruchtenbaum] is a well known scholar a word, any word cannot have a dozen contradictory meanings. Thus, words are sometimes used figuratively or hyperbolically. E.g. Peter was not literally Satan when Jesus called him that. Herod was not literally a fox when Jesus called him that. The sons of John were not literally sons of thunder when Jesus called them that.

I just presented what I came across. Personally I've lost interest in the subject for the most part. Although seeing as how Dr. Fruchtenbaum is a Jewish expert in Hebrew and Judaism, it's reasonable to conclude that his conclusions carry a great deal of weight. As I recall you have a tendency to condescendingly dismiss anyone who's findings don't line up with your own.

Der Alte · Mar 7, 2025

ozso said:
I just presented what I came across. Personally I've lost interest in the subject for the most part. Although seeing as how Dr. Fruchtenbaum is a Jewish expert in Hebrew and Judaism, it's reasonable to conclude that his conclusions carry a great deal of weight. As I recall you have a tendency to condescendingly dismiss anyone who's findings don't line up with your own.

Thank you for your false accusation. AFAIK I do NOT condescendingly dismiss anyone who's findings don't line up with my own. I state what I believe supported with appropriate evidence and point out any errors in opposing posts much as I did in my previous response to you. That Dr. Fruchtenbaum is a knowledgeable scholar does NOT mean he cannot and does not make mistakes. A quote from your post.

For example, it is used of someone's lifetime (Ex. 14:13), of a slave's life (Ex. 21:6; Lev. 25:46; Deut. 15:17), of Samuel's life (I Sam. 1:22; 2:35), of the lifetimes of David and Jonathan (I Sam. 20:23), and of David's lifetime (I Sam. 27:12; 28:2; I Chr. 28:4). While the English reads for ever, obviously from the context it does not mean "forever" in the sense of eternity, but only up to the end of the person's life.

This is correct in the context of these verses it is obvious it does not mean eternal in these vss. and it is NOT defined in the text as eternal as in the 48 vss, I cited in the OP. See e.g.

Ecclesiastes 3:14

(14) I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: [עולם/olam] nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

If Eccl 3:14 said only "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: [עולם/olam]." It would be as these other vss you mentioned. But it goes further I would say that "Nothing can be put to whatsoever God does and nothing can be taken from it." defines olam as eternal. OTOH olam is never defined in the text as a period less than eternal.

BelieveItOarKnot · Mar 8, 2025

Der Alte said:
I didn't try to shoe horn anyone. I note that you completely avoided the topic of the thread.

I've said many times that the claims made by some universalists stating that eternal hell is not eternal is FALSE and not for just the limited argument you make

The Hebrew word עולם/olam means eternal, everlasting, forever etc.

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Well-Known Member

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Well-Known Member

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Saved by the grace of Jesus Christ

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Saved by the grace of Jesus Christ

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...

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