Did God forget Luke 14:28-32?

johansen · Feb 3, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
When Jesus said ALL he did not mean some

Are you a universalist?

johansen · Feb 3, 2025

Johan2222 said:
The fact that you can assume that God creating evil negates our free will to walk in righteousness is only a measure of your inability to co

I said none of that

Laodicean60 · Feb 3, 2025

Der Alte said:
(21) Not every one that saith unto me,

Bolded is a million-dollar question who are everyone, Christians?

Then you read in Mark that people who weren't followers were praised by Jesus and would receive a reward. This widened the narrow gate for me.

Mark 9:38-41
New King James Version
Jesus Forbids Sectarianism
38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”

39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 40 For he who is not against [a]us is on our side. 41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

I can think of the Pharisees because they said His good works were from the devil.

Jeff Saunders · Feb 3, 2025

BelieveItOarKnot said:
And there are specific scriptures that apply to the devil and his messengers that exempt them from the all. That's where your position fails to account

Scripture has what some say are contradictory interpretations , depending on your view of God you will put one set of scriptures as your telos and some one who sees God different may put another set as scriptures as their telos. If you believe that God is an angry God that hates most of his creation and all deserve to spend eternity in “hell” and Jesus gets between God and man and if we do our part we can go to heaven. If that is how you see God then the scripture that we read in English saying everlasting or eternal punishment or chains that is the bedrock and all the scriptures that say God will save the cosmos take a back seat to the “hell” scriptures. For me I see God as a loving Father who knows the beginning from the end and one who is powerful enough to get everything he wants. He loves his creation, all of it ( He did create everything just the way he wanted) and that we were created to have fellowship and serve and worship him in the loving relationship of the Trinity and this whole 6000 plus years is Gods plan to get to his telos which is 1Cor 15:28 when God will be all in all . So all the scriptures that say Gods will is that none parish I believe to be a declaration and that Jesus came not to judge the world but to save it that is a declaration. So that is my bedrock. The verses that seem to say in English that God is going to torture most for all eternity take a backseat to the ones that say Jesus conquered sin and death. We have example’s in scripture that show the idea of everlasting is not the same as Gods . In Jude 1:7 we read that Sodom and Gamora were destroyed by eternal or everlasting fire so we think they burn forever but Ez 16:53-55 God says he will restore Sodom and Gomorrah, this is Gods heart, once you experience Gods heart which is love you know in your heart that God burning his creation forever is not in his nature, he would not create something that he would have to torture forever. If you have Gods love in your heart and you were in heaven and you knew people were burning in “hell” you would beg God to go and save them , that’s Gods heart . For me that is why I see all the scriptures that talk about God reconciling his whole cosmos as the filter through which all scripture must be filtered through, for you God will torture most of his creation forever is the filter that most Christians today use as their filter. So the devil and his minions are still part of the cosmos that God is reconciling to himself and it’s still not done yet.

Jeff Saunders · Feb 3, 2025

HIM said:
Amen

Human beings is not in the Greek. see below

Strongs does not get into the grammar and syntax. It is a simple Lexicon and concordance. There is nothing wrong with it. But it can be confusing because it as most don't share on the grammar, so you don't get the full picture.

See below

Christ through the Holy Spirit has

The Greek word is in the subjunctive mood. We took the time to share on this a day or so ago. But it seems you missed or ignored it. Here is that part of the post again.

Romans is a big letter. This verse you isolated from the rest of the chapter and letter does not address the passages shared to you or the context to which they are found. And it is being stated in the subjunctive mood. It’s that not-quite-concrete wording one would use when they're discussing things they want to happen, hope will happen or anticipate will happen. NOT THAT IT WILL HAPPEN. Hence the word might in the translation you used.

In regard to that translation. They missed the mark a bit. But most translations do. The issue is there is a Them also in the clause, "He might have mercy on THEM all." So to be correct the verse needs to be translated as Anderson's translation, The Bible in Basic English by Cambridge Press, Lexham English Bible did, posted here respectively.

Rom 11:32 For God has delivered them all over to unbelief, that he may have mercy on them all.

Rom 11:32 For God has let them all go against his orders, so that he might have mercy on them all.

Rom 11:32 For God confined them all in disobedience, in order that he could have mercy on them all.

Here is the Greek.

Rom 11:32 συνέκλεισεν Shut Up Together γὰρ For ὁ θεὸς God τοὺς them πάντας All εἰς In ἀπείθειαν Disobedience, ἵνα That τοὺς those (them) πάντας All ἐλεήσῃ He Might Show Mercy To.

τοὺς is the plural form of τοῦ. Here is the definition by Strong.

G5120 τοῦ tou (tou') n.
of this person.
[(properly) the genitive case of G3588, sometimes used for G5127]
KJV: his
Root(s): G3588, G5127
[?]

It being in the plural form is why the translation you used, and a lot of other translations translate it as them in the first clause, "For God has committed them all to disobedience".

So the question arises who is the "them' in the first clause of Romans 11:32?

This is revealed in the previous verses. The them are those of Israel who are mentioned in verse 31 as now not believing. That being so, then the "them" in the second clause, "that he might have mercy on them all" is also Israel according to the context, grammar and syntax. Since mercy has already been bestowed upon us, the Gentiles due to their unbelief as stated in verse 30.

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy on them all.

And all this is being stated with what had already been established in the Letter. In particular this verse,
Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

And this one.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

I do see what you are saying but the way I read it is vs 11:15 For if their rejection is reconciliation for the cosmos, what is their acceptance except life from the dead. Which is backed up by 2 Cor 5:19 in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation. This is Gods telos along with 1Cor 15:28 that God will be all in all . So Paul might have been talking about just the Jews , that may be correct, but it doesn’t negate the fact that God will redeem his whole cosmos because of what Jesus did.

Jeff Saunders · Feb 3, 2025

johansen said:
Are you a universalist?

If you mean that do I believe that God will eventually reconcile his whole creation through Jesus and his work done on the cross and that only through Jesus does anyone see the Father, and every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. If that’s what you mean by universalist then yes.

Jeff Saunders · Feb 3, 2025

Laodicean60 said:
Bolded is a million-dollar question who are everyone, Christians?

Then you read in Mark that people who weren't followers were praised by Jesus and would receive a reward. This widened the narrow gate for me.

Mark 9:38-41
New King James Version
Jesus Forbids Sectarianism
38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”

39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 40 For he who is not against [a]us is on our side. 41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

I can think of the Pharisees because they said His good works were from the devil.

I will give you my answer to the million dollar question. As a Christian Universal Redemption guy I read this verse to be like this -Hebrews says it’s appointed for man once to die then the judgement. The judgement is not heaven or hell , the judgment is did you follow Jesus and his teachings or not if yes then into Gods presence you go if no then you need to go to Gods refining fire till the dross is removed and you can see clearly to accept Jesus. There are many who think that they are following God but are not , I think that a lot of the pew sitters are there only because they think that they will go to an eternal “hell” if they don’t preform certain things which change from group to group. They have no love for God but they have been told that if you say this magic saying to get in and they do the bare minimum to stay in , they are no different than the world but they go to a building once a week and give a little money so they are safe. These are the ones who Jesus says I never knew you. God does not do abandonment he is a loving Father that would do anything to save his creation from sin and he would even die to save his cosmos and in the end he will of accomplished this and God will be all in all. That’s the part that so many people don’t understand they look at the now and say God isn’t saving everything look around, that’s worldly thinking not knowing God has all the time he needs to accomplish what he set out to do in the first place . The answer is it’s all those who did not follow Jesus while in the mortal body.

Der Alte · Feb 3, 2025

BelieveItOarKnot said:
You've already admitted you can't get the connection that devils occupy mankind in the form of temptations, deceptions, spiritual blindness, lawless thoughts, evil thoughts, lies, fears, obfuscations, theft, destruction and eventually even death.

Please go back and read what I actually said. I did NOT say or imply that I "can't get the connection that devils occupy mankind in the form of temptations."

BelieveItOarKnot said:
I'd suggest perhaps your positions are void of a very large element of scriptures, the devil and his messengers and your focus is only on condemning the captives of the devils rather than looking at their and all of our situation here on earth

Instead of trying to psychoanalyze me you might try actually reading what I said and respond to that.

BelieveItOarKnot said:
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Has God bound you to disobedience?
I'll raise my hand on that one, knowing well enough the workings of our mutual adversary

I too agree with Rom 11:32. I don't have a problem with that at all. However, this would seem to contradict your theory on demons. If it is the demon, not the person, who is disobedient why would God have mercy on the person?

Der Alte · Feb 3, 2025

johansen said:
View attachment 360595

Illegible as posted.

Der Alte · Feb 3, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
When Jesus said ALL he did not mean some.

You yank one word out of context from another passage and post it as if it negates the entire passage I quoted. Here is the passage again so others can observe the error.

Matthew 7:21-23

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day,[judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

When Jesus says "never" He does not mean some day by and by.

Please note vs. 21 "Not everyone *** shall enter the kingdom of heaven."
vs. 22 "Many [not a few] will say to me in that day, [judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many [apparently] wonderful works?"
Vs. 23 "And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
What part of this do you not understand?
When Jesus says "never" He does not mean someday by and by. These vss. cannot contradict any other vss. and no other vss. can contradict these vss.
I know of some TV personalities who fit vs. 22. I applied for a job with one of them before I realized what they actually were.

johansen · Feb 3, 2025

Der Alte said:
Illegible as posted.

I didn't create this.. but tend to agree with this "commentary" added to the original image.

https://img.ifunny.co/images/b41b5644955729fa121d6e4cba0f34045e9b6452ac87df42d5c9632c2cf6f101_1.webp

evil exists (on earth anyways) because people do evil.

not because "God created Evil"

God created Satan.. but satan, not God, is the "father" of lies.

Jeff Saunders · Feb 3, 2025

Der Alte said:
You yank one word out of context from another passage and post it as if it negates the entire passage I quoted. Here is the passage again so others can observe the error.

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day,[judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
When Jesus says "never" He does not mean some day by and by.
Please note vs. 21 "Not everyone *** shall enter the kingdom of heaven."
vs. 22 "Many [not a few] will say to me in that day, [judgement day] Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many [apparently] wonderful works?"
Vs. 23 "And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
What part of this do you not understand?
When Jesus says "never" He does not mean someday by and by. These vss. cannot contradict any other vss. and no other vss. can contradict these vss.
I know of some TV personalities who fit vs. 22. I applied for a job with one of them before I realized what they actually were.

I wish you understood the ages in scripture. If you understood the ages you would understand that the scriptures you keep posting are in this age , the age to come is different. I know you don’t understand how most will not repent now but in the age to come God will refine them and when all the dross is removed and they see Jesus then they will repent. Just like scripture clearly said every knee , not some but every knee will bow and every not some tongue will confess ( the very thing that we must all do ) that Jesus is Lord. Until you get what Paul said was a mystery now made known you will continue in you error.

Der Alte · Feb 3, 2025

Jeff Saunders said:
I wish you understood the ages in scripture. If you understood the ages you would understand that the scriptures you keep posting are in this age , the age to come is different. I know you don’t understand how most will not repent now but in the age to come God will refine them and when all the dross is removed and they see Jesus then they will repent. Just like scripture clearly said every knee , not some but every knee will bow and every not some tongue will confess ( the very thing that we must all do ) that Jesus is Lord. Until you get what Paul said was a mystery now made known you will continue in you error.

I see a lot of unscriptural nonsense about ages. I have read the end of the book.

Revelation 22:3-5

(3) And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; [new Jerusalem] and his servants shall serve him:

(4) And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

(5) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 22:11-13

(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

No more death, no more salvation.

Jeff Saunders · Feb 3, 2025

Der Alte said:
I see a lot of unscriptural nonsense about ages. I have read the end of the book.

Revelation 22:3-5
(3) And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; [new Jerusalem] and his servants shall serve him:
(4) And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
(5) And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 22:11-13
(11) He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
(12) And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
(13) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
No more death, no more salvation.

Like I said until you understand you will remain ignorant, maybe you are not ready for this teaching but you will understand eventually maybe not in this age but in the next.

linux.poet · Feb 3, 2025

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Did God forget Luke 14:28-32?

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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Love does not insist on its own way

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