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Potential Peace deal between Russia and Ukraine was blocked by Biden-Harris official in 2022

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7thKeeper

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rjs330 said:
I don't know. I'm not Putin. But for the last time, and this IS the last time, I get tired of repeating myself, Vances plan at least Vances plan has a starting point that might get Putin to the table. Harris has given us NOTHING.
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Why is it Vances place to even have a plan? Is he running for vice president of Ukraine? I don't think so. Ukraine has a peace plan, as is being reported and they've been discussing it with their allies currently and will be talking about it with Biden during the upcoming visit to the US.
rjs330 said:
And the world has done nothing to stop him or negotiate with him. And if anyone thinks they will get Putin to the table offering nothing and punishments. They should think again.

Is it possible that Putin may decide even after negotiations that he's not going to stop? Sure. If that's the case the world needs to step in and not just the US. We should be done funding foreign wars for the most part. If we really want global solutions it's takes a global initiative.
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You say that as if the US is the only nation supporting Ukraine financially and militarily with equipment.
 
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Hans Blaster

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rjs330 said:
I don't know. I'm not Putin. But for the last time, and this IS the last time, I get tired of repeating myself, Vances plan at least Vances plan has a starting point that might get Putin to the table. Harris has given us NOTHING.

And the world has done nothing to stop him or negotiate with him. And if anyone thinks they will get Putin to the table offering nothing and punishments. They should think again.

Is it possible that Putin may decide even after negotiations that he's not going to stop? Sure. If that's the case the world needs to step in and not just the US. We should be done funding foreign wars for the most part. If we really want global solutions it's takes a global initiative.
Click to expand...

What "Vance's plan". I've seen none articulated here.
 
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dzheremi

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Whyayeman said:
No! Peace at any price?

If at some future time Mexico annexed Arizona can you imagine Americans coming to a 'peace deal' that fell short of the Mexican army withdrawing from Arizona? That is, America ceding part of its sovereign territory to the invading force. There are lots of examples of appeasement in history (look no further than WW2).
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As someone who has been to Arizona several times, I don't see a problem here. Let them take New Mexico, too, while they're at it. We're clearly not doing much with it. (Source: I lived in Albuquerque for 4 years while going to college, 2011-2015. It is a rough place.)
 
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7thKeeper

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Hans Blaster said:
What "Vance's plan". I've seen none articulated here.
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Ah, true. It was in another thread. In essence, his idea for a peace plan is that Russia gets to keep all the land it occupies (and not mentioned, so I guess Ukraine would have to return the land it occupies) and that a DMZ be established (managed how, not said) and that Ukraine would be forbidden from ever joining NATO or any similar organisations. I can't remember if it was military organisations specifically, but would exclude the EU as well because the agreement has a military component in it, even if it's not as clear as Article 5 (to put it loosely).
 
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Hans Blaster

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7thKeeper said:
Ah, true. It was in another thread. In essence, his idea for a peace plan is that Russia gets to keep all the land it occupies (and not mentioned, so I guess Ukraine would have to return the land it occupies) and that a DMZ be established (managed how, not said) and that Ukraine would be forbidden from ever joining NATO or any similar organisations. I can't remember if it was military organisations specifically, but would exclude the EU as well because the agreement has a military component in it, even if it's not as clear as Article 5 (to put it loosely).
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That's a capitulation plan, not a peace plan. It leaves Ukraine severely restricted in their ability to defend themselves. It also weakens Ukraine economically, not to mention the actual loss of territory. "Mr. Vance"s "peace" plan is rather favorable to Russia. It is basically the best Russia could possibly achieve at this point.
 
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SimplyMe

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7thKeeper said:
Ah, true. It was in another thread. In essence, his idea for a peace plan is that Russia gets to keep all the land it occupies (and not mentioned, so I guess Ukraine would have to return the land it occupies) and that a DMZ be established (managed how, not said) and that Ukraine would be forbidden from ever joining NATO or any similar organisations. I can't remember if it was military organisations specifically, but would exclude the EU as well because the agreement has a military component in it, even if it's not as clear as Article 5 (to put it loosely).
Click to expand...

That doesn't sound like a plan, that sounds like "Give Russia everything and anything they want" and not allowing Ukraine to have any say in their future. How is that any type of serious plan?
 
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