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Potential Peace deal between Russia and Ukraine was blocked by Biden-Harris official in 2022

Hans Blaster

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He and NATO did very little to prevent Russia from doing so.
What is the US/NATO to do *before* the invasion? Preemptive bombing?

(And do you know who wrote the article in the OP? I can't read it. Thx)
 
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Whyayeman

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It would be cool to see the peace deal terms (as in on a PDF or online document), but yes, any peace deal would be better than no peace deal at all.
No! Peace at any price?

If at some future time Mexico annexed Arizona can you imagine Americans coming to a 'peace deal' that fell short of the Mexican army withdrawing from Arizona? That is, America ceding part of its sovereign territory to the invading force. There are lots of examples of appeasement in history (look no further than WW2).
 
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Hazelelponi

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SMH. Biden did not invite Russia to invade Ukraine.


It really doesn't scream don't. It screams we are wishy washy and weak and Putin can do whatever.

Everything that happened in Ukraine is on Biden, and it was intentional or there's never been a day that Biden has been in the White House that he's had control of his faculties.

Ukraine highlights that. They either wanted WW3 and actively are working towards it, or our leaders just don't care about anything because they let a mentally incompetent man stay in office.
 
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Offline4Better.

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No! Peace at any price?

If at some future time Mexico annexed Arizona can you imagine Americans coming to a 'peace deal' that fell short of the Mexican army withdrawing from Arizona? That is, America ceding part of its sovereign territory to the invading force. There are lots of examples of appeasement in history (look no further than WW2).
Peace must happen, but not at a price which involves death or annexation of an entire region. So yes, I agree with your assessment.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Peace must happen, but not at a price which involves death or annexation of an entire region. So yes, I agree with your assessment.

Here is the draft


I believe the talking was important, and we stopped it in favor of war. The Biden Administration has never tried for peace.
 
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Here is the draft


I believe the talking was important, and we stopped it in favor of war. The Biden Administration has never tried for peace.
God bless you for giving me the draft of the peace deal. The deal seems pretty sweet, from first glance, though it uses a lot of complex geopolitical terms. :) Why couldn't Russia and Ukraine have passed the peace deal? Why did Joe stop the peace deal?

Would Trump have stopped the peace deal as well, or any other candidate in office, or would corporate lobbying have kept the war going on, and prevented the peace treaty from passing, regardless of who was in office?

Oh wait, there is a Rule of Acquisition from the Ferengi alien civilization in Star Trek. It states, "War is good for business". Sounds like Lockheed Martin is owned by the Ferengi: Star Trek: Every Known Ferengi Rule Of Acquisition (& When They're Revealed)

1726257956851.png
 
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Hazelelponi

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God bless you for giving me the draft of the peace deal. The deal seems pretty sweet, from first glance, though it uses a lot of complex geopolitical terms. :) Why couldn't Russia and Ukraine have passed the peace deal? Why did Joe stop the peace deal?

Would Trump have stopped the peace deal as well, or any other candidate in office, or would corporate lobbying have kept the war going on, and prevented the peace treaty from passing, regardless of who was in office?

Oh wait, there is a Rule of Acquisition from the Ferengi alien civilization in Star Trek. It states, "War is good for business". Sounds like Lockheed Martin is owned by the Ferengi: Star Trek: Every Known Ferengi Rule Of Acquisition (& When They're Revealed)

View attachment 354544


A draft is just a draft. It's not something set in stone but it's a solid diplomatic start and shows you what is important to the parties involved.

Drafts are always further negotiated in diplomatic talks and we don't know what would have happened if those talks would have been allowed to continue.
 
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A draft is just a draft. It's not something set in stone but it's a solid diplomatic start and shows you what is important to the parties involved.

Drafts are always further negotiated in diplomatic talks and we don't know what would have happened if those talks would have been allowed to continue.
These talks should have been allowed to continue. From that draft, it seemed to be a very good document, with great potential, only to be killed off. Imagine if the war ended at the end of 2022 or early 2024 at the latest instead of going on right now.
 
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Whyayeman

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Imagine if the war ended at the end of 2022 or early 2024 at the latest instead of going on right now.
That would be nice!

The problem was that the Russians version of the peace was for Ukraine to surrender part of its sovereign territory including Crimea as well as the occupied eastern provinces. Going back to my Arizona example: should Americans be happy if the whole of Arizona was ceded to Mexico?

Of course not.

There will be no agreement that is not enforced by military action. Ukraine must surrender territory or Russian troops must withdraw behind its borders. Then there is the matter of war reparations. If you do not believe this look up the Russo-Finnish War of 1939 - 40.
 
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RDKirk

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He and NATO did very little to prevent Russia from doing so.
Do you want war or don't you want war? The only thing NATO could do is go to war. You may not realize that "NATO" is specifically a military alliance. If you want some response other than war, that would be the G7.
 
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RDKirk

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It really doesn't scream don't. It screams we are wishy washy and weak and Putin can do whatever.

Everything that happened in Ukraine is on Biden, and it was intentional or there's never been a day that Biden has been in the White House that he's had control of his faculties.

Ukraine highlights that. They either wanted WW3 and actively are working towards it, or our leaders just don't care about anything because they let a mentally incompetent man stay in office.
Russia would have invaded Ukraine sooner or later...in Putin's mind, he must...he's said that. And, in fact, he already had before.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Russia would have invaded Ukraine sooner or later...in Putin's mind, he must...he's said that. And, in fact, he already had before.

And in fact was that a reason to tell him it was cool with us?

It's not leadership. It's not trying to stop wars from occuring.
 
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Whyayeman

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Russia would have invaded Ukraine sooner or later...in Putin's mind, he must...he's said that. And, in fact, he already had before.
People are now being reported for speaking against the war. Trials are taking place which do not come near to meeting the criteria that we in the free world expect and people are going to prison for years on the word of their neighbours.

Putin is coming to resemble Stalin. He will only respond to strength - and weakness, of course.
 
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Offline4Better.

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That would be nice!

The problem was that the Russians version of the peace was for Ukraine to surrender part of its sovereign territory including Crimea as well as the occupied eastern provinces. Going back to my Arizona example: should Americans be happy if the whole of Arizona was ceded to Mexico?

Of course not.

There will be no agreement that is not enforced by military action. Ukraine must surrender territory or Russian troops must withdraw behind its borders. Then there is the matter of war reparations. If you do not believe this look up the Russo-Finnish War of 1939 - 40.
I'd blame 80% of this on Putin for trying to take over Ukraine. He did with Crimea, and now is trying to take over the whole country. A better solution is that Ukraine can surrender Crimea, and that is it. Russia should no longer invade Ukraine. Heck, Russia is the largest country in the world, it does not need any more land. Ending this war will take a lot of effort, and it is shame that the original peace treaty draft was shot down.

Winter War:
 
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Vambram

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Do you want war or don't you want war? The only thing NATO could do is go to war. You may not realize that "NATO" is specifically a military alliance. If you want some response other than war, that would be the G7.
I lived for 7 years in West Germany back in the 70s. I served as an active duty US army soldier for 3 years in Germany. I am fully aware of the capabilities of NATO and the European Union. The USA, the European Union, and NATO all attempted to try to use diplomatic and economic sanctions against Russia in order to weaken Russia. However, some believe that there's a legitimate reason to state that the war with Ukraine has not really weakened Russia at all. Instead, some would point to the strengthening of the alliances of Russia with China, Iran, North Korea, and potentially also India, Brazil, and other countries.
 
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Bradskii

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I believe the talking was important, and we stopped it in favor of war.
It depends what the talk was about. @Whyayeman's example was excellent. You don't invade a country, occupy a chunk of it and then say 'Hey, let's be friends again - but we get to keep what we won'.
 
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Offline4Better.

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Out of curiosity how is Under Secretary Nuland alleged to have blocked the deal? It's not like a deal between Russia and Ukraine would require her sign-off.
Agreed. I checked all 16 pages of the treaty, and nowhere does it say that the Under Secretary is required for the treaty to be signed. The only thing that could stop this treaty are corporate interests that want the war to continue. Now, if one could potentially link any corporations that have a stake in the Ukraine war, and directly connect one of those companies to the deal being blocked, then we will have some news.

Source, once again, thank you @Hazelelponi for linking the treaty draft:
 
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