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In Las Vegas, Harris promises to end tips for service industry employees, echoing Trump pledge

Vambram

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You aren't voting for it. The people who will be voting for it will be studying it and arguing about until they reach an agreement. At least, you better hope that whichever side you voted for is doing so on your behalf. When it's passed then if you're keen then you can wade through the finalised bill yourself.

And as Pelosi said, when it's finalised then you can study what's been passed. Unless you want to waste your time studying a bill that hasn't.
Sadly, too many spending bills passed by Congress are so very long, complex, with lots and lots of pages that our lawmakers don't even take the time to read and study. Too often, those bills are put together and voted upon before the representatives and Senators can even take the time to read fully through the bill.
 
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Bradskii

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If a person is not in the USA legally, if a person is an illegal immigrant, if a person is an undocumented immigrant, then that person should NOT BE in the USA.
Unless they apply for asylum. In which case they may be authorised to work. Nevertheless, the figure that Trump says he is going to deport is still 11,000,000. Do you have any idea how he thinks this could possibly be done?
 
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Bradskii

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Sadly, too many spending bills passed by Congress are so very long, complex, with lots and lots of pages that our lawmakers don't even take the time to read and study.
Well, you certainly don't want to investigate 'lots and lots of pages' before they are passed. You can't know exactly what they'll contain until they are passed. Bills are in a constant state of being revised until they get voted on. Which is exactly what Pelosi was saying: 'We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it...'

And some people's grasp of English is so poor that they don't understand that basic sentence. Or they know what she meant but twist it so that those who are incapable of understanding what she meant thinks it's some sort of 1984 doublespeak.
 
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BPPLEE

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You aren't voting for it. The people who will be voting for it will be studying it and arguing about until they reach an agreement. At least, you better hope that whichever side you voted for is doing so on your behalf. When it's passed then if you're keen then you can wade through the finalised bill yourself.

And as Pelosi said, when it's finalised then you can study what's been passed. Unless you want to waste your time studying a bill that hasn't.
I'm taking about the people who are voting for it.
 
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Bradskii

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I'm taking about the people who are voting for it.
Well, it's actually their job to investigate what they are voting for. To debate it. To argue for and against it. To demand changes. To offer compromises. When Pelosi said 'We have to pass the bill...' she meant those in Congress who are going to decide exactly what it ends up containing. When she says '...so that you can find out what is in it', she literally means you. Joe Public.

I'm completely flummoxed as to why this isn't as clear as crystal.
 
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Vambram

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Well, you certainly don't want to investigate 'lots and lots of pages' before they are passed. You can't know exactly what they'll contain until they are passed. Bills are in a constant state of being revised until they get voted on. Which is exactly what Pelosi was saying: 'We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it...'

And some people's grasp of English is so poor that they don't understand that basic sentence. Or they know what she meant but twist it so that those who are incapable of understanding what she meant thinks it's some sort of 1984 doublespeak.
Here is the main point which I was trying to make. When Congress has these large bills written with well over a hundred pages and more, too often those bills are passed into law by Congressmen who have not had enough time to read and study the various details inside those laws.
 
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Vambram

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Unless they apply for asylum. In which case they may be authorised to work. Nevertheless, the figure that Trump says he is going to deport is still 11,000,000. Do you have any idea how he thinks this could possibly be done?
Yes.
It will take a couple of years to deport a few million illegal immigrants. But this is feasible as long as Congress cooperates with the necessary spending. However, I have no doubt that the liberals in America will try to use federal courts to try to stop the deportation of illegal immigrants.


What is the Australian law and policy regarding illegal immigrants into your nation?
 
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BPPLEE

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Well, it's actually their job to investigate what they are voting for. To debate it. To argue for and against it. To demand changes. To offer compromises. When Pelosi said 'We have to pass the bill...' she meant those in Congress who are going to decide exactly what it ends up containing. When she says '...so that you can find out what is in it', she literally means you. Joe Public.

I'm completely flummoxed as to why this isn't as clear as crystal.
As I am as to why you continue to defend her
 
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Bradskii

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Here is the main point which I was trying to make. When Congress has these large bills written with well over a hundred pages and more, too often those bills are passed into law by Congressmen who have not had enough time to read and study the various details inside those laws.
I could care less what you think of the work ethic of those in Congress. The topic was Pelosi. What she said, who she said it about and why she said it. That has been explained to the nth degree.

Anyone who still doesn't understand is being deliberately obtuse. Further arguments or explanations will be a waste of time.
 
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Bradskii

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As I am as to why you continue to defend her
She doesn't need me to defend her as she's done nothing wrong. What I have been doing is correcting people who confuse what she said. Either through ignorance of what she exactly said, out of context, or through an inability to understand basic English sentences, or through purposely trying to twist what she said as a desperate political point scoring exercise.

The first two can be corrected. The last I'm really not interested in.
 
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Bradskii

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Yes.
It will take a couple of years to deport a few million illegal immigrants.
Really? You know that this is not going to happen, don't you? You know that it's just something Trump says because some people like him saying it. You know that it is practically impossible. You know that. Surely.
What is the Australian law and policy regarding illegal immigrants into your nation?
You should start a thread.
 
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BPPLEE

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I could care less what you think of the work ethic of those in Congress. The topic was Pelosi. What she said, who she said it about and why she said it. That has been explained to the nth degree.

Anyone who still doesn't understand is being deliberately obtuse. Further arguments or explanations will be a waste of time.
You assume that you are right and there's no other explanation. It was an asinine comment by Pelosi and it will live on and be repeated as an example of the idiocy of the left perpetually .
 
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Vambram

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Really? You know that this is not going to happen, don't you? You know that it's just something Trump says because some people like him saying it. You know that it is practically impossible. You know that. Surely.

You should start a thread.
You appear to love to comment constantly on American politics and laws, but you won't even answer a relative simple question about your own nation’s laws?????????
If you would start a thread about Australian laws, politics, and immigration stuff, I will participate in it.
 
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Bradskii

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You appear to love to comment constantly on American politics and laws, but you won't even answer a relative simple question about your own nation’s laws?????????
It's a very long way from being a 'relatively simple question'. Immigration is a complex matter in Australia. Almost all aspects of which are completely different to the US situation. The size of the country, the border such as it is, the population, numbers, where they come from, how they get here, how they are treated when they arrive, the politics...etc etc. Because of that there is no worthwhile time to be spent on comparing the two countries in that respect.

I'm only interested in talking about US immigration because it's a consideration regarding the election. I'm not interested in discussing Australian immigration when the topic is the US election. But you are free to start a thread if you find it interesting.
 
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A2SG

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Here is the main point which I was trying to make. When Congress has these large bills written with well over a hundred pages and more, too often those bills are passed into law by Congressmen who have not had enough time to read and study the various details inside those laws.
That's why they have a staff. Junior aides read this stuff, keep up with the changes, and inform the representative about it. I also suspect these aides are doing most of the writing anyway, so they're really all talking to each other.

I wonder how many meet together in the capitol cafeteria, and discuss the changes they're going to propose, or make, ahead of time. Probably a lot more discussion going on there than on the floor of congress itself.

-- A2SG, you didn't think congresspeople did all that stuff themselves, personally, did you?
 
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BPPLEE

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It's a very long way from being a 'relatively simple question'. Immigration is a complex matter in Australia. Almost all aspects of which are completely different to the US situation. The size of the country, the border such as it is, the population, numbers, where they come from, how they get here, how they are treated when they arrive, the politics...etc etc. Because of that there is no worthwhile time to be spent on comparing the two countries in that respect.

I'm only interested in talking about US immigration because it's a consideration regarding the election. I'm not interested in discussing Australian immigration when the topic is the US election. But you are free to start a thread if you find it interesting.
Do as I say, not as I do.
 
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Bradskii

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Do as I say, not as I do.
Well, you can do as we do if you like. Just move the US a long way from everyone else, remove all land borders and install a left wing government. Let me know how you get on.
 
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eleos1954

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I wasn't saying that it's easy to pick the bones out of any legislation. I was pointing out that you quoted Pelosi out of context. And inaccurately into the bargain.

If you think that wading through a bill after it's passed is difficult, then trying to tie it down before it's passed, with all the changes and alterations and revisions and cross references would be all but impossible for anyone who is not involved in the minutiae of the legalese. Which is why she said that you need to wait until it's passed before you can start investigating and breaking down exactly what's included.

As you said, there was an enormous amount of information to get through. You really want to start before it's finalised?
I don't think bills should be passed that aren't fully understood and it seems to me they could write them so they could be fully understood.
 
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Bradskii

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I don't think bills should be passed that aren't fully understood and it seems to me they could write them so they could be fully understood.
Is that what you think Congress is for? Translating verbose and complex bills into a simple form that a third grader could read? Granted that I'm sure we could both name people in politics that need that to happen. As has been said, there are some people who don't like to read a lot because their lips get tired. But that's not actually what Congress does.
 
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eleos1954

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Is that what you think Congress is for? Translating verbose and complex bills into a simple form that a third grader could read? Granted that I'm sure we could both name people in politics that need that to happen. As has been said, there are some people who don't like to read a lot because their lips get tired. But that's not actually what Congress does.
well ... as the saying goes "the devil is in the details" ... many times they are not even given enough time to read the bills ... this is nonsense
 
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