39% of Americans worry they can’t pay the bills

FireDragon76 · Jul 29, 2024

trophy33 said:
Was the US economy as reliant on debt in 1970s as it is today? Remember that high interest rates are great for savers, but bad for debtors.

No. Though reliance upon credit was starting to rise throughout the 70's, the reliance upon debt was generally lower.

Laodicean60 · Jul 29, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
No. Though reliance upon credit was starting to rise throughout the 70's, the reliance upon debt was generally lower.

Like an idiot, I loved my credit card in 1978 and it set me back several years. Getting off the gold standard allowed for the problems we have today.

FireDragon76 · Jul 29, 2024

Maria Billingsley said:
Do you know what the 70's was known for? Interest rates were 17% + for home purchases, inflation soared! This is cyclical.
Maybe consider doing some research...here is some info...

"Many remember the 1970s as a decade of soaring inflation, political upheaval, and the erosion of United States' prestige worldwide. But the significance of the seventies goes beyond high gas prices, Watergate, and Vietnam - profound changes to American politics, societal norms, and the nation's economy took root."

Today is not that bad and there is always a sector living pay check to pay check. Remember those days??

The 70's were not that bad, actually, for average people, aside from the oil shocks that were due to international politics.

The idea that the 70's stagflation was a serious problem for ordinary people is more of a neoliberal myth. It was squeezing the wealthy more than they cared for, though, because wealthy people often live off financial investments.

trophy33 · Jul 29, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
No. Though reliance upon credit was starting to rise throughout the 70's, the reliance upon debt was generally lower.

Interestingly, in 1970s the US dollar also stopped being backed by gold, which allowed all kinds of money manipulation.

FireDragon76 · Jul 29, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Like an idiot, I loved my credit card in 1978 and it set me back several years. Getting off the gold standard allowed for the problems we have today.

They really didn't have much choice. Before fiat currency, depressions happened often enough - more often than most contemporary people would care for.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 29, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
They really didn't have much choice. Before fiat currency, depressions happened often enough - more often than most contemporary people would care for.

Yeah, that little fact tends to get overlooked. The "money manipulation" that happens tends to make things better, not worse, than they otherwise would be if the people doing the manipulating know what they're doing and aren't overly political about it.

trophy33 · Jul 29, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
The "money manipulation" that happens tends to make things better, not worse

How? Are you able to describe the mechanism?

iluvatar5150 · Jul 29, 2024

trophy33 said:
How? Are you able to describe the mechanism?

Basically, they lend money in different ways in order to manipulate interest rates and the amount of liquidity in the economy.

trophy33 · Jul 29, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
Basically, they lend money in different ways in order to manipulate interest rates and the amount of liquidity in the economy.

I rather meant the mechanism of how its making things better compared to a backed currency.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 29, 2024

trophy33 said:
I rather meant the mechanism of how its making things better compared to a backed currency.

Fiat currency allows them to move quickly when situations call for it, and in the directions required. It's also not as susceptible to manipulation by outside actors as are precious metals. You can't, for example, mine a bunch of USD, sit on them, and then flood the market.

Pommer · Jul 29, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Like an idiot, I loved my credit card in 1978 and it set me back several years. Getting off the gold standard allowed for the problems we have today.

The gold standard has gone the way of the dinosaurs, trying to get back on it would force gold to millions of dollar/troz (something the markets would be against).

Laodicean60 · Jul 29, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
You can't, for example, mine a bunch of USD,

But you sure can print it. This is why my kids' purchasing power has declined.

iluvatar5150 said:
in order to manipulate interest rates

trophy33 said:
How? Are you able to describe the mechanism?

How interest rates are set is due to the Federal Reserve's on short-term rates. The 10 and 30-year rates are manipulated by the market and the Treasury. Home rates are based on the 10-year bond yield.

We borrow through the Treasury and interest rates go up with an oversupply of bonds (debt) or when there are not enough countries buying or loaning to us. We have to make the yield attractive to get them to loan us money. Some economists are saying that Janet is manipulating the long term rates downward by not issuing long term bonds. I'm not smart enough to know if this is a bad thing long term but I know that lowering yield will mitigate banks and companies from going bust which makes sense.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 29, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
But you sure can print it.

No, you can't print USD. Jerome Powell -and only Jerome Powell- can. But you and I can't, though we could conceivably stake a claim and open our own gold mine.

Laodicean60 · Jul 29, 2024

Pommer said:
The gold standard has gone the way of the dinosaurs, trying to get back on it would force gold to millions of dollar/troz (something the markets would be against).

Right because we didn't keep buying when we went to the petrodollar. We need to make Ft. Knox great again. Not enough gold in the central banks but they are buying like crazy now??? The BRICS countries are talking gold backing and if this catches on we could see a rise in gold prices. Lots of rumors and fears because of global debt also have people talking about currency backed by hard assets.

Laodicean60 · Jul 29, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
No, you can't print USD. Jerome Powell -and only Jerome Powell- can. But you and I can't, though we could conceivably stake a claim and open our own gold mine.

Did I misread again I did say Federal Reserve printing. How you and I print money out of thin air is borrowing. We should stake a claim on Federal land and mine the crap out of it but I don't know if it's legal.

eleos1954 · Jul 29, 2024

trophy33 said:
Its much higher than during the COVID-19 lockdowns (29%) and even higher than in the Great Recession (37%).

https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/23/business/inflation-cost-of-living-cnn-poll/index.html

And yet ... the democrats cite the economy is just fine ... baloney on that ... Americans are living it every day.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 29, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Did I misread again I did say Federal Reserve printing. How you and I print money out of thin air is borrowing. We should stake a claim on Federal land and mine the crap out of it but I don't know if it's legal.

I think you may have misunderstood my point:

iluvatar5150 said:
Fiat currency allows them to move quickly when situations call for it, and in the directions required. It's also not as susceptible to manipulation by outside actors as are precious metals. You can't, for example, mine a bunch of USD, sit on them, and then flood the market.

I wasn't saying that the supply of money can't be increased or otherwise manipulated - obviously it can be, by the Fed. My point was that third parties can't do that with dollars the way they can with precious metals. There are too many dollars out there for anybody to be able to corner the market, and there's no way for anybody outside the Fed to mine new ones.

Laodicean60 · Jul 29, 2024

iluvatar5150 said:
I think you may have misunderstood my point:

I blame medical cannabis. Apology

Pommer · Jul 29, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Right because we didn't keep buying when we went to the petrodollar. We need to make Ft. Knox great again. Not enough gold in the central banks but they are buying like crazy now??? The BRICS countries are talking gold backing and if this catches on we could see a rise in gold prices. Lots of rumors and fears because of global debt also have people talking about currency backed by hard assets.

Yeah, but see the problem is that as we would need “more gold” and since we can’t “make it”, if we needed more gold to keep the economy afloat, we’d have to wage war and take our defeated foes gold for ourselves.

iluvatar5150 · Jul 29, 2024

Pommer said:
Yeah, but see the problem is that as we would need “more gold” and since we can’t “make it”, if we needed more gold to keep the economy afloat, we’d have to wage war and take our defeated foes gold for ourselves.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

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