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'Fire of Revival' Spreads in Europe as Thousands Pack Stadiums in Hungary and Italy

FireDragon76

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I think many people see no reason to think about such things, because their life is comfortable and full of entertainment/distraction.

True atheists are quite a minority, most people just do not care enough for any side and when asked, they give some vague "I believe in something..." or "I dont know". They have never given it a time to think it through and to formulate some ideas or even systems, so they are left with just intuitive answers.


For example, when there is an immigration crisis from the Muslim countries, even the most atheistic country like I live in suddenly identify as "Christian" in political debates or online discussions. When there is some crisis, the Christian traditions and values are somehow more clear to common folk, suddenly, and they have no problem identifying with them.

"Cultural Christians".

Like Kierkegaard said, when everybody is Christian, nobody is Christian.

In the case of reaction to immigrants, it can get ugly, too. Identifying Christianity with opposition to "those people" is far from anything Jesus or Paul preached.
 
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Whyayeman

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"Cultural Christians".

Like Kierkegaard said, when everybody is Christian, nobody is Christian.

In the case of reaction to immigrants, it can get ugly, too. Identifying Christianity with opposition to "those people" is far from anything Jesus or Paul preached.
I have declared myself here as atheist, but have always acknowledged my cultural debt to my upbringing in an officially Christian country and within an observant Christian family. Am I then a 'cultural Christian'?

I think I understand the term but it seems to me that it is not very useful - except maybe to count people like me and the 'don't knows' as within the Christian family. I don't really see the point of that. To be Christian you have to believe in the divinity of Christ.
 
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FireDragon76

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I have declared myself here as atheist, but have always acknowledged my cultural debt to my upbringing in an officially Christian country and within an observant Christian family. Am I then a 'cultural Christian'?

I think I understand the term but it seems to me that it is not very useful - except maybe to count people like me and the 'don't knows' as within the Christian family. I don't really see the point of that. To be Christian you have to believe in the divinity of Christ.

As historian Tom Holland has recently pointed out, identifying Christianity as a social movement that shaped western history, rather than a propositional belief, can be useful at times to explain our history and values. But it's important not to confuse that with somebody that is consciously seeking to believe and follow the religion.
 
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AlexB23

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I do not live in Germany. However, I manytimes noticed that people are just repeating media and pinpointing errors of individuals, without actually checking the official programs. I see this "dirty" tactics often, in politics, in media. Its always best to actually go to the primary source.

That was my only request here - to understand why it has so much support in Germany, in the context of their actual official program.

Voting is frequently not about some perfect adherence to a specific party or to people in it, but more about if there is a better alternative or not. I can imagine that if Germans do not see any other party offering solution to their serious daily problems, they are willing to tolerate some things (at least temporarily) they do not agree with, to get their priorities solved. Its similar to the US and Trump.

If more centrist/balanced parties want to get these voters back, they must stop ignoring their problems, in some cases even lying to them and come with better solutions than the parties they criticize. If they will not do that, the political market will create balance from opposing extremes.
That is true, a lot of people just repeat media, that is why I like to try and find the actual source sometimes, but it can be hard, as media does not give citations as much as say, Wikipedia. Centrist parties are important, and sadly, my friend, the AfD is not one of those parties. In Germany, the AfD is one of the most far-right-wing parties one could get. In the US, the equivalent would be the MAGA movement. I would never tolerate MAGA though, even though I am fed-up with the far-left stuff, cos I am equally fed-up with the far-right stuff.

I agree with the last part of your statement entirely.
 
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trophy33

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"Cultural Christians".
Yes, I do not claim that the general population are "the real Christians". I was talking about Christian traditions, norms or social values - the general population in Europe tend to remember them (and stick to them) more when they face a different culture or a crisis.
 
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FireDragon76

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Yes, I do not claim that the general population are "the real Christians". I was talking about Christian traditions, norms or social values - the general population in Europe tend to realize them more when they face a different culture or a crisis.

I'd argue often times cultural Christianity is often just cover for racism and xenophobia. When some swarthy person shows up, suddenly people find their identity as "Christians" who would never haunt the door of a church.
 
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trophy33

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I'd argue often times cultural Christianity is often just cover for racism and xenophobia. When some swarthy person shows up, suddenly people find their identity as "Christians" who would never haunt the door of a church.
No, I dont think so. Europeans generally are not racist and do not mind if somebody is looking differently. But this somebody must live as in Europe and respect the culture here.

I do not know if its like that in the US.
 
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Hans Blaster

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The BBC ids not what most people would consider to be a state broadcaster. It has a Royal Charter, which makes it independent of the government of the day. It is financed entirely by an annual licence fee levied on all households with a television receiver.

The Royal Charter is the constitutional basis for the BBC. It sets out the BBC’s Object, Mission and Public Purposes. It must:

1. provide impartial news and information to help people understand and engage with the world around them​
2. support learning for people of all ages​
3. show the most creative, highest quality and distinctive output and services​
4. reflect, represent and serve the diverse communities of all of the United Kingdom’s nations and regions and, in doing so, support the creative economy across the United Kingdom​
5. reflect the United Kingdom, its culture and values to the world​

This last one is defined as follows:

The BBC should provide high-quality news coverage to international audiences, firmly based on British values of accuracy, impartiality, and fairness. Its international services should put the United Kingdom in a world context, aiding understanding of the United Kingdom as a whole, including its nations and regions where appropriate. It should ensure that it produces output and services which will be enjoyed by people in the United Kingdom and globally.

I hope this is useful.
Oh, I'm aware of the the BBC thinks of itself.
 
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BCP1928

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No, I dont think so. Europeans generally are not racist and do not mind if somebody is looking differently. But this somebody must live as in Europe and respect the culture here.

I do not know if its like that in the US.
The question here is what culture are we going to respect?
 
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trophy33

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The question here is what culture are we going to respect?
If we are immigrants to some specific country, we immigrate to its culture and laws, too. Not just to their social benefits or healthcare. If I emmigrated to Japan, I would live in a way compatible with the Japanese society.
 
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Whyayeman

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If we are immigrants to some specific country, we immigrate to its culture and laws, too. Not just to their social benefits or healthcare. If I emmigrated to Japan, I would live in a way compatible with the Japanese society.
Well, sometimes. It has not always worked out that way.

Migrants almost always bring at least some of their culture with them and for the most part it enriches the countries they move to. Here in the UK the culture has benefited; the culinary delights of Chinese, Japanese, South Asian, Greek, Italian, West Indian and almost countless other dishes. It may be a surprise to many outside the UK that dishes called balti and chicken tikka marsala - all invented here but with Indian origins - are among our favourites. A highlight of the London calendar is the Chinese New Year. The Prime Minister of India habitually addresses the crowds who come to hear him in English.

Migration often enriches the migrant and the host country.
 
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trophy33

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Well, sometimes. It has not always worked out that way.

Migrants almost always bring at least some of their culture with them and for the most part it enriches the countries they move to. Here in the UK the culture has benefited; the culinary delights of Chinese, Japanese, South Asian, Greek, Italian, West Indian and almost countless other dishes. It may be a surprise to many outside the UK that dishes called balti and chicken tikka marsala - all invented here but with Indian origins - are among our favourites. A highlight of the London calendar is the Chinese New Year. The Prime Minister of India habitually addresses the crowds who come to hear him in English.

Migration often enriches the migrant and the host country.
If the crime rate skyrockets, if people are afraid to send children to play outside, if there is mess, garbage on the streets, drugs, noise during nights, then some "culinary delights" are really quite a poor deal.

Immigrants must live compatibly with the majority, first. Only then they can enrich the society. And people voting for the anti-immigration parties simply do not prefer to have more exotic dishes anymore.

I think that one of the big ones was a quite recent study in Germany about how are immigrants economically helping Germany. Politicians said they will help the social system, while in reality, they are net users of the social system, i.e. its worse than without them. Or various news articles how children in German schools are forced to accommodate to islam or else they will be beaten by immigrant children. Attacks on police, firefighters or ambulances are also happening, in immigrant streets and buildings - in Sweden, France, Germany, Belgium...

Recently, a Polish solder was killed by an immigrant while patrolling the border, he was stabbed to the neck. When other soldiers tried to save him, they were being attacked by other immigrants the whole time. It was on a video on various local news websites.

In roughly the same time, a German police officer was also stabbed to death by an immigrant (the immigrant also attacked more people before that).

All these things together are changing the political atmosphere in Europe, regarding immigration.
 
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BCP1928

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If we are immigrants to some specific country, we immigrate to its culture and laws, too. Not just to their social benefits or healthcare. If I emmigrated to Japan, I would live in a way compatible with the Japanese society.
Yes, but Japanese society is relatively uniform. In this country it is not.
 
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trophy33

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Yes, but Japanese society is relatively uniform. In this country it is not.
Even if some country like the USA has multiple cultures (which has been problematic since its beginnings), an immigrant moves to some specific state, town, street. So, logically, he is supposed to accommodate to that.

But when some immigrants are not even willing to learn the language and are just enlarging their already isolated communities, then its a state inside a state.
 
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FireDragon76

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Well, sometimes. It has not always worked out that way.

Migrants almost always bring at least some of their culture with them and for the most part it enriches the countries they move to. Here in the UK the culture has benefited; the culinary delights of Chinese, Japanese, South Asian, Greek, Italian, West Indian and almost countless other dishes. It may be a surprise to many outside the UK that dishes called balti and chicken tikka marsala - all invented here but with Indian origins - are among our favourites. A highlight of the London calendar is the Chinese New Year. The Prime Minister of India habitually addresses the crowds who come to hear him in English.

None of this is due to some kind of benevolence on the part of Britain. It is all a legacy of empire. During WWII, millions of Indians died in famine because Britain's economic policies in India taxed and appropriated their wealth. Then Britain made a decision to increase their economic power in the wake of the ruin of WWII, by allowing immigrants to fill low-skilled jobs.
 
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Whyayeman

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None of this is due to some kind of benevolence on the part of Britain. It is all a legacy of empire. During WWII, millions of Indians died in famine because Britain's economic policies in India taxed and appropriated their wealth. Then Britain made a decision to increase their economic power in the wake of the ruin of WWII, by allowing immigrants to fill low-skilled jobs.
I know. I live in the UK. Nonetheless, my point holds. Countries generally and the UK in particular) has been culturally enriched by migration. In the case of the UK people from many countries have made a positive contribution to their hosts' ways of life.

This thread is in danger of being derailed by off-topic xenophobic rants.
 
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BCP1928

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Even if some country like the USA has multiple cultures (which has been problematic since its beginnings), an immigrant moves to some specific state, town, street. So, logically, he is supposed to accommodate to that.

But when some immigrants are not even willing to learn the language and are just enlarging their already isolated communities, then its a state inside a state.
The ESL programs I am familiar with around where I live are all full with long waiting lists. Granted, older immigrants will probably never learn very much of the language*--language learning is harder for the elderly. Youngsters pick up the language quickly. Who is unwilling?

*I presume you mean English, although in some regions of the country Spanish will work just fine.
 
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loveofourlord

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There is no such thing as the Gospel of Trump. In my opinion, to suggest otherwise is borderline blasphemy if not outright actual blasphemy.
there is certainly a few churches in the states that seem to think so, or least seem to treat him comparable to jesus. Kinda disturbing.
 
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Vambram

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there is certainly a few churches in the states that seem to think so, or least seem to treat him comparable to jesus. Kinda disturbing.
Can you provide evidence for this assertion?
 
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