Is the Bible the word of God?

tonychanyt said:

Technically, the Bible is not the exact word of God but a human recording of God's words.

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Or God allows humans the liberty to express his will or words in their own personal writing styles under the guidance of the HS.

The current Bible's that people use are copies of the original autographs. So as they are not actually the very words of God as they have been translated into the language of people over the earth

But they are accurate enough to represent what God wanst us to know.

While I believe we can come to know God through the Bible, I don't believe the text itself is dictated by God.

d taylor said:

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The current Bible's that people use are copies of the original autographs. So as they are not actually the very words of God as they have been translated into the language of people over the earth

But they are accurate enough to represent what God wanst us to know.

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Do you think the translation of the bible is inspired too?

lanceleo said:

Do you think the translation of the bible is inspired too?

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They are reflecting inspiration, but are not actually inspired as the original autographs. There are a few verses that have been translated wrong as known by the original text.

Genesis 4:1 is an example

Genesis 4:1 in the original Hebrew actually states that Eve though she had given birth to Jehovah.


וְהָאָדָם, יָדַע אֶת-חַוָּה אִשְׁתּוֹ; וַתַּהַר, וַתֵּלֶד
אֶת-קַיִן, וַתֹּאמֶר, קָנִיתִי אִישׁ אֶת-יְהוָה.

The original Hebrew states.
And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man: Jehovah.”
Eve would not have stated this in Genesis 4:1, if she had not understood Genesis 3:15 as a promise of a Messiah God

In Genesis 4:1 in the American Standard Version (ASV) the words in Genesis 4:1 "with the help of the Jehovah" . But the phrase the help of, is in Italics in the American Standard Version. Showing that these words are not found in the original Hebrew text.
ASV
And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man with the help of Jehovah.
The Hebrew construction for Jehovah is the same as the previous phrase : bore Cain
Here again is the use of the direct object (man) followed by God's four letter name YHVH
The English translation is not based on the Hebrew. It is based on the Septuagint which reads "dia ton Theou" meaning, through God.
The latin Vulgate follows reading Per Deum meaning through God

d taylor said:

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They are reflecting inspiration, but are not actually inspired as the original autographs. There are a few verses that have been translated wrong as known by the original text.

Genesis 4:1 is an example

Genesis 4:1 in the original Hebrew actually states that Eve though she had given birth to Jehovah.


וְהָאָדָם, יָדַע אֶת-חַוָּה אִשְׁתּוֹ; וַתַּהַר, וַתֵּלֶד
אֶת-קַיִן, וַתֹּאמֶר, קָנִיתִי אִישׁ אֶת-יְהוָה.

The original Hebrew states.
And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man: Jehovah.”
Eve would not have stated this in Genesis 4:1, if she had not understood Genesis 3:15 as a promise of a Messiah God

In Genesis 4:1 in the American Standard Version (ASV) the words in Genesis 4:1 "with the help of the Jehovah" . But the phrase the help of, is in Italics in the American Standard Version. Showing that these words are not found in the original Hebrew text.
ASV
And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man with the help of Jehovah.
The Hebrew construction for Jehovah is the same as the previous phrase : bore Cain
Here again is the use of the direct object (man) followed by God's four letter name YHVH
The English translation is not based on the Hebrew. It is based on the Septuagint which reads "dia ton Theou" meaning, through God.
The latin Vulgate follows reading Per Deum meaning through God

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I very much doubt the author of Genesis meant to imply that Eve gave birth to YHWH. That doesn't fit the original source material's theological background. Nor is that verse traditionally understood by either Jews or Christians as a messianic promise.

All translations that are readable at times use some interpolation based on what amounts to educated guesses based on familiarity with underlying linguistic conventions.

d taylor said:

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They are reflecting inspiration, but are not actually inspired as the original autographs. There are a few verses that have been translated wrong as known by the original text.

Genesis 4:1 is an example

Genesis 4:1 in the original Hebrew actually states that Eve though she had given birth to Jehovah.


וְהָאָדָם, יָדַע אֶת-חַוָּה אִשְׁתּוֹ; וַתַּהַר, וַתֵּלֶד
אֶת-קַיִן, וַתֹּאמֶר, קָנִיתִי אִישׁ אֶת-יְהוָה.

The original Hebrew states.
And the man knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man: Jehovah.”
Eve would not have stated this in Genesis 4:1, if she had not understood Genesis 3:15 as a promise of a Messiah God

In Genesis 4:1 in the American Standard Version (ASV) the words in Genesis 4:1 "with the help of the Jehovah" . But the phrase the help of, is in Italics in the American Standard Version. Showing that these words are not found in the original Hebrew text.
ASV
And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man with the help of Jehovah.
The Hebrew construction for Jehovah is the same as the previous phrase : bore Cain
Here again is the use of the direct object (man) followed by God's four letter name YHVH
The English translation is not based on the Hebrew. It is based on the Septuagint which reads "dia ton Theou" meaning, through God.
The latin Vulgate follows reading Per Deum meaning through God

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What about the translation of Hebrew into the NT Greek? Does inspiration only work when the books were being canonized and does not apply for today's translation?

lanceleo said:

What about the translation of Hebrew into the NT Greek? Does inspiration only work when the books were being canonized and does not apply for today's translation?

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The New Testament was originally written in Greek not Hebrew.

d taylor said:

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The New Testament was originally written in Greek not Hebrew.

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Yes but there were scriptures in the OT that had to be translated to Greek for the NT.

lanceleo said:

Yes but there were scriptures in the OT that had to be translated to Greek for the NT.

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The author was inspired by God so when the author used scripture from the Tanakh. In the writing of The New Testament autographs they would have been a perfect translation.

tonychanyt said:

One problem is that there is no universal definition of the Bible.

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ONLY Jesus can add to what Moses gives us. So all we need are the books of Moses and the red letters of Jesus. We can find His teachings in the sermon on the mount and all can be reduced to the word LOVE. Love God, love your neighbor, love yourself with all your heart, mind and strength. Although Moses does not use the word MIND. Jesus added that in the Greek.

tonychanyt said:

Is the Bible infallible or inerrant?

It is better to stick to the phraseology of the Bible and just say that all Scripture is God-breathed.

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Why is it better to say it is God breathed? I say it is literally true in it's original languages. The problems all come from two sources, fallible (and sinful) people reading it, and translation, whereby because language is always changing, and we do not have an infallible translator (or 100 of them), we will never have perfect comprehension.

I am absolutely a fallible sinful Bible reader, dependent on translations myself.

tonychanyt said:

The Bible records history from the beginning to the end. It records the acts of historical figures (Adam, Jesus) and how they interacted with the one true God.

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Yes, this, Amen.

tonychanyt said:

What did the original language say on this verse?

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Which verse?

By the way, I don't read the original languages.

2 Timothy 3- 16

θεόπνευστος

The phrase “breathed out by God” translates a single word from the Greek: theopneustos. This compound consists of two parts, the words for “God” (theos) and for “breathe” (pneō). Some translations render the compound as “inspired,” an acceptable translation that is nevertheless not as accurate as “God-breathed,” which emphasizes the divine authority of Scripture. When the Bible speaks, God speaks. The very “writings” themselves have the characteristic of “God-breathedness.” They are God’s Word.

The word translated “profitable” means that all Scripture is useful, beneficial, or advantageous (BDAG, s.v. ὠφέλιμος). Scripture is good for God’s people precisely because it is the Word of God. In fact, we might loosely render this phrase, “All Scripture is God-breathed and therefore is good for you.”

link - 2-timothy-316

Consider the astonishing coincidences in “Love” and how Joseph’s revelation to pharaoh alludes to its origins.

In Genesis 22.2 the word love first appears in scripture at the beginning of a passage where Abraham (meaning father of many) took his only begotten son into the land of Moriah to offer him as a sacrifice upon a mountain.

Some 2200 years after Abraham was born, God (the Father of many) took His only begotten Son into the land of Moriah to offer Him as a sacrifice upon a mountain.

Golgotha, the place where Christ was crucified is a peak in the Mountain range of Moriah.

Isaac, (meaning laughter) is mysteriously omitted from the Genesis story for two chapters, and the next time he appears is when he receives his bride, Rebekah.

Christ (The bringer of eternal laughter to mankind) has been mysteriously omitted from the history of man for two millennia, and the next time He will appear is when He receives His bride. (John 3.29. Matthew 25.10)

Abraham’s senior servant, Eliezer, (which means God comforts) who wields Abraham’s power over all of his possessions, is sent by Abraham to find a bride of unusual faith for Isaac.

God’s Holy Spirit (who Christ called "the comforter") who wields God’s power over all of creation was sent to earth by God to find a bride of unusual faith for Christ.

Abraham possesses the fire and the knife and Isaac bore the burden of the wood.

God possesses the Holy Spirit (revealed in the burning bush and tongues of fire) and the power of life and death, and Christ bore the burden of the cross.

Abraham had two sons; the son of the flesh, Ishmael, born first, and the son of the promise, Isaac, born afterwards by a miraculous conception.

God had two sons; the son of the flesh, Adam, born first, and the son of the promise, Jesus, born afterwards by a miraculous conception.

Isaac in this foreshadowing prophecy Is Acting As Christ, (Mnemonic) the only one of the Trinity to be revealed openly.

By deduction we can logically assume that Abraham arrived at the sacrifice location about 3.8 days into his journey (Genesis 22.4) and we know Christ arrived at the place of His sacrifice about 3800 years after Adam. (For which 2 Peter 3.8 “coincidentally” provides an explanation)

Now consider this;

Genesis 41:32 KJV

And . . . doubled . . . twice; it is because the thing is established by God, and God will shortly bring it to pass.

DOUBLED TWICE

“Doubled twice” being a sign that God has established something (Gen 41.32) it is obviously not just coincidence that “love”, (which God established) first occurs in Genesis 22.2 (incidence number 2 of 222 in scripture) where it uncovers the love of the Spirit, while Genesis 2.22, incidence number 1 of 222 uncovers the love of the flesh, but notably the word love is not used to describe it.

Here are the two scriptures.

Genesis 2:22 KJV

And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. (the first time Adam saw Eve.)

Genesis 22:2 KJV

And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. (the foreshadowing of the crucifixion of Christ.)

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 KJV

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. [46] Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Knowing that Christ is number 2 in heaven (John 14.28) and that the numbers were only put into the Bible about 400 years ago, perhaps one can begin to understand how God can say.

[10] Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Isaiah 46:

Naturally this numerical symmetry does not occur in meaning based translations like the NIV which are not actual translations but rather private interpretations of what men think scripture means.

2 Peter 1:20

I have by no means included all of the “coincidences” included in the above foreshadowing prophecy and indeed some of them are so intense that some people would not be able to bear them.

Could man alone have had the power to write these things, or the following prophetically perfect genealogy in Genesis which reveals the same prophecy through a different lens?


If nothing else, knowing that man does not know the future, I think that you can safely conclude that the Bible could not have been written by man alone.

tonychanyt said:

Define Bible.

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Unprofitable;

Those who are within already know the truth and such definitions edify no one.

1 John 2:20-21 NKJV
But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. [21] I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

To those who are without their faith comes by hearing the word of God, not by the definition of what constitutes it.