God grants repentance to life

All people have a God given faith to worship something, a person has to direct that faith toward God believing God could forgive them.
Repentance (turning) can be done by anyone just look at the prodigal son's turning (for selfish reason [undeserved help from his father]). The "turning" does not mean we changed sides, just like a soldier who surrenders is not changing sides but is just willing to take pure undeserved charity from his enemy.
Our part is by faith we are willing to just humbly accept God's pure undeserved charity Love) and thus automatically obtain Godly type Love (Luke 7).

The repentance of your sins can be dropped from a gospel message. It is belief in Jesus, which gives people God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Plus faith is not the gift, the gift is Eternal Life.

Every person has the ability to exercise faith in something. Today it looks like a lot people place their faith in man. Like science, governments, corporations, celebrities, sports, money, etc.....

You say: "Therefore, not believing God was Adam's first mistake (sin).", but I do not find that in scripture and in fact find "Adam was not deceived".
Adam knew what he was doing, but he was "with" Eve where "with" means something other than just close proximity. Adam and Eve had become "one", so Adam could not live without Eve and would go where she goes.

Good day,

Yuppers

And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

Php 1:29 For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake

The commands to repent and believe are only obeyed once God completes his work of regeneration (born again), He alone is the only effective cause of our walking and obeying His statues. His work in removing, putting, and giving will serve the intention(s) of God.


A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

In Him,

Bill

fli said:

First who did God say sinned in the garden?

Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. NKJV

God blames Adam for sinning in the garden and causing death to man.

What did God say about Eve?

1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. NKJV

God agreed with Eve that she had been deceived. God further said that Eve fell into sin by being deceived. The entire world fell into sin when Adam sinned.

Genesis 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': NKJV


God said because Adam heeded the word of his wife. We know that Adam sinned. It is not a sin for a man to heed the voice of his wife. If a man obeys the voice of his wife instead of the voice of God, it is a sin. God said that Adam would surely die if he ate of the fruit.

Genesis 3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. NKJV

Eve must have said what was in her mind, that the fruit was good for food, pleasing to the eyes and would make one wise. Whose voice did Adam heed? Eves! The Hebrew word translated heed also means heard or hear. We know Adam heard both God and Eves voices. The word also means obey which fits the context of the verse especially since Adam sinned. To obey one's wife instead of God is a sin. Why would Adam obey the voice of Eve instead of God? I say Adam believed Eve and not God. When he ate the fruit, it showed who he believed.

Your belief that Adam loved Eve and did not want her to die doesn't make since in light of what he said to God.

Genesis 3:12 Then the man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate. NKJV

It sounds like Adam is a kid that got caught doing something he shouldn't have done, and he blames everyone but himself. We know that God has said that Adam sinned. If only one was to die it would be him and not Eve.

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I am not saying Adam did not sin, because Adam did sin.
It sounds to me that Adam's wonderful love for Eve was greater than his love for God at that time.
Adam was not trying to get Eve in trouble but was trying to get himself out of trouble somehow, Adam knew they both had sinned.
Where are you getting the idea: "Adam believed Eve and not God. When he ate the fruit, it showed who he believed." If Adam was not deceived than he knew he would die, and Eve would die.
The Bible says: "Adam was not deceived", so Eve did not deceive Adam either, he knew what he was doing.

fli said:

Genesis 3:3 but of the fruit of the tree, which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'" NKJV

Eve did not sin at all until after the fall.

Eve was created after God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. We have no information on how Eve learned of the warning concerning the tree. God warns us not to add to or take away from God's word. In verse 3 God's word is added to. The reason not to add to or take away from God's word is because it may cause one to sin. I was taught that adding to God's word was the reason Eve was deceived. Somehow the serpent accidentally pushed her into the tree, and nothing happened. Then she believed the serpent.

No where does God say Eve sinned in this incident. She was not faulted for being deceived. She is not faulted for adding to God's word. She did not sin by eating the fruit.

Adam was the one God had put in charge. I believe he was the only one that could give the title deed away. As far as we know God only warned him about the tree. No one could sin until Adam ate of the fruit and all humans gained knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3: 6a So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. NKJV

She ate of the fruit and her eyes were not opened. If she had sinned, sin had entered the world and Adam's eyes would have been opened.

Genesis 3:6 b She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. NKJV

The scripture is clear Eve ate and then gave some to Adam. When Adam ate of the fruit then (at that time) both their eyes were opened. When Adam sinned, the entire world fell into sin including Eve.

Your right, nowhere does it say Adam did not believe God.

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We agree: “nowhere does it say Adam did not believe God”.

Your explanation has: “the serpent accidentally pushed her into the tree, and nothing happened. Then she believed the serpent.” Which is totally made up. This “addition” seems to be there to help justify Eve eating the fruit.

I fully agree we do not know where Eve got the “you must not touch it, or you will die.’”, but the first part is accurate: 3 but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden.”

Since the forbidden fruit does provide “knowledge” of good and evil, the person eating would go from one way to sin, to now a ton of ways to sin, which I do not see God wanting them to have initially.

Eve is not innocent 16 To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” Women go through a lot of pain in child bearing, so how can you say God was not faulting her?

God does allow us to “sin” and learn from it, but if Eve is not sinning and will go through severe hardship, yet not sinning that is not Godly Love.

If Eve ate of the forbidden fruit and Adam had not sinned, would that mean no one sinned and life goes on? Adam did sin so all this went on to happen.

fli said:

Genesis 3:3 but of the fruit of the tree, which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.'" NKJV

Eve did not sin at all until after the fall.

Eve was created after God told Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. We have no information on how Eve learned of the warning concerning the tree. God warns us not to add to or take away from God's word. In verse 3 God's word is added to. The reason not to add to or take away from God's word is because it may cause one to sin. I was taught that adding to God's word was the reason Eve was deceived. Somehow the serpent accidentally pushed her into the tree, and nothing happened. Then she believed the serpent.

No where does God say Eve sinned in this incident. She was not faulted for being deceived. She is not faulted for adding to God's word. She did not sin by eating the fruit.

Adam was the one God had put in charge. I believe he was the only one that could give the title deed away. As far as we know God only warned him about the tree. No one could sin until Adam ate of the fruit and all humans gained knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 3: 6a So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. NKJV

She ate of the fruit and her eyes were not opened. If she had sinned, sin had entered the world and Adam's eyes would have been opened.

Genesis 3:6 b She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings. NKJV

The scripture is clear Eve ate and then gave some to Adam. When Adam ate of the fruit then (at that time) both their eyes were opened. When Adam sinned, the entire world fell into sin including Eve.

Your right, nowhere does it say Adam did not believe God.

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Do you need a verse telling you how Eve found out about the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil?? Adam was formed by the dust of the earth. Adam was created in the likeness of God. How long Adam was in the garden alone? We have no idea whatsoever as that is not even hinted at, outside of basic logic that some time would be required for events to occur. I will say this, it would have taken quite some time. God is not a tyrant. He would not have Adam there bringing one animal type before Adam in 1 day to see what Adam would call them. That would have taken time. My guess is it would have taken a long time, perhaps quite a long time. We are just given the broad strokes. I am sure God would have had conversations about each animal this would have taken MONTHS.

Headship is a biblical concept about the order of birth. It was almost always the firstborn who received the birthright. Likewise, God established Adam's headship. Sin DID NOT enter the human race to EVE. It came to mankind when Adam sinned. Instead of Adam going to God as SOON as he saw that Eve had sinned, he took matters into his own hands and in doing so FAILED to trust that God would have the best way to fix the problem. He didn't even bother to ask God... Adam and all men are the Spiritual HEAD of the family. He also failed Eve. He added to the word of God. He added and you shall not touch it. Eve told Satan what Adam told her... once satan was able to lead eve to believe God had LIED to Adam, it was game over.

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 and sin is transgressing God's law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12

It's why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, Mat5:19 because Jesus does not want us to sin, it is not His will. Psa 40:8 Heb 8:10

Which is why repentance/ turning from sin/obeying God is part of the everlasting gospel, without it we are all lost. Isa 59:2 We are not saved in sin Heb 10:26, we are saved from sin- we need a conversion- the old man must die, and we must walk in His Spirit in newness where God places His law in our hearts and He is the one enabling us to obey His commandments through our love and faith. John 14:15-30 Rom 3:31 1 John 5:3

Repentance means a change of direction and if we are still clinging to our old life of sin, I would consider more time in prayer, because scripture says we need to confess and forsake our sins Pro 28:13 and while we can't obey God on our own, we can through Christ Phil 4:13. If we are rebelling against God's law than I would consider the direction one is going Rom 8:7-8

Believing in Jesus is more than just I believe- it is be-living Him- what did Jesus teach, how did Jesus live. Jesus taught repentance Mark 4:17, so hard to make the case we can believe in Jesus but not believe in His teachings.

We need to have faith that works. We are not saved by the law- the law is given by our Savior because He sets the standard of right and wrong Psa 119:172, we obey the law because a saved person has a relationship with Jesus and does what He asks through love and faith which reconciles Rev 22:14

fli said:

Acts 26:20 but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. 21 For these reasons the Jews seized me in the temple and tried to kill me. NKJV


Paul taught that people should repent and turn to God. Then they should do works befitting repentance.

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Agreed- one thing not befitting to repentance in continuing in that path of sin- which is breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 sin separates us from God Isa 59:2- Jesus came to reconcile and showed us the WAY- through His life, teachings and example.

fli said:

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you — unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. NKJV



Above is the gospel that Paul preached. He said people would be saved if they believed that Jesus died for their sins and that He arose on the third day. Let's look at other scriptures because the truth is established by 2 witnesses.



Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame." NKJV


Above is verses from Paul that is the second witness. So just what does Paul mean in Acts 26: 20 that the people needed to repent and turn to God?



John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. NKJV



Jesus testified that if anyone believed in Him, they would have eternal life. If you believe in Him, you have turned to Jesus and are looking to Him to save you.

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Yes, we need to believe in Jesus, but believe is not a superficial belief, that all I need to do is believe but I can live how I want.

John talks about this but many never go past verse 16.

I would consider reading a bit further.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Here he makes the clear distinction that believing in Jesus is related to our obedience to Him. Those who choose to do evil (sin) does not come to the light because their deeds are evil, but we are called to come to the truth (light) so our deeds can be exposed. This is what the Ten Commandments does- Rom 3:20 Rom 7:7 James 1:22-25 James 2:10-12 it shows us our sin just like a mirror. When we bury our sins (stay in darkness) we don't confess or forsake them and therefore God can't give us His mercy and grace and give us the power to help overcome. Proverbs 28:13 John 14:15-18 Those who seek God want to come to the Truth Psa 119:151 so Jesus can help us overcome our sins. Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 we are not saved in our sin.

Jesus in His own Words tells us that it's more than just believing...

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord [believer],’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Believing is a great first step but as our love for Jesus grows, we should want to obey Him through faith and love. Rom 3:31 1 John 5:3John 14:15 Exo 20:6

fli said:

John 3:32 And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. 33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. NKJV





By believing Jesus' testimony you have certified that God is true. You have repented towards the Father. When we believe we receive the Spirit of Jesus, and we are born of the Spirit.

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Agree, which means one would believing the teachings of Jesus such as Mat 5:19-30 Mat 14:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 Mat 19:17-19 and following the example of Jesus who taught and lived keeping God’s commandments including Sabbath-keeping Luke 4:16 John 15:10

Its hard to make the case we believe in Jesus and His testimony but not enough to follow what He asks or how He lived For our example 1 John 2:6 Heb 4:15 1 Peter 2:21-22 That why there is a lot of talk about doing God’s Word- not just hearing it James 1:22 Rev 22:14 Isa 56:1-6

fli said:

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. NKJV








Because we have certified that the Father is true we also get the Spirit of the Father, who raised Jesus from the dead.

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You missed a couple verses, because Paul makes clear if we reject God;s law- we are not living in the spirit but living in the flesh

Rom 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

So if we are arguing against obeying God’s law we should consider the direction we are going.

fli said:

Acts 5:31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. NKJV





Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life." NKJV





When we believe God gives us repentance and forgiveness of sins.

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It’s more than just believing. We must confess our sins and forsake them (turn from them)

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Proverbs 28:13 He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

Our salvation is from sin, we are not saved in our sins. If we are still clinging on to sin, we need to spend more time in prayer with Jesus askig His help in overcoming. If we love Him we will keep His commandments and He doesn’t make us do it alone John 14:15-18 but it requires our cooperation. We need a conversion, we need to die of self and be re-born in Christ who is without sin. When Jesus heals He said go and sin no more- if it were not possible He would not ask.

fli said:

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. NKJV





Once we believe in Jesus we must keep His commandments and we ought to walk as He walked. First we keep His commandments. John told us the commandments we were to keep in 1John.





1 John 3: 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. NKJV





Above is the commandment we are to keep. We must love the brethren, keep believing in Jesus and do things pleasing in His sight. To do things pleasing in His sight we must be in the Spirit which agrees with verse 1John2:6 above meaning we ought to walk as Jesus walked. Paul explained what being in the Spirit is in Romans 8.

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There is more than one commandment to keep. John is not countermanding Jesus- if one believes in Jesus they would believe His teachings.

Jesus said if you love Me, keep My commandments plural.

Jesus taught directly from the Ten Commandments - the Ten Commandments are summarized love to God and to love to each other Rom 13:9. The summary does not delete the details. The first 4 commandments are how we are to love God Exodus 20 1:11 and the last 6 how to love each other Exo 20:12-17 Jesus taught right from the Ten showing they mean much more than what is stated and if one is walking in His Spirit, all of the Ten Commandments would be kept through love to God and love to man 1 John 5:2-3. It why Jesus taught not to break the least of these commandments quoting directly from the Ten Mat 5:19-30 because in doing so when we keep our rules over God’s commandments that He personally wrote Exo 32:16 Exo 31:18 Jesus says our hearts are far from Him Mat 15:3-14 so hard to make the case we believe in Jesus when our hearts are far from Him and if we continue down that path- He tells us at His second coming He will not know us those who practice lawlessness Mat 7:23. I know what you’re teaching is what the popular churches are teaching, but sadly they are leading people down the wrong path. If we love Jesus, we would keep His commandment, the ones He taught and kept for our example. We need to have the faith in Jesus and the faith of Jesus Rev 14:12-what did Jesus teach and how did He live. Jesus never taught we didn‘t need to keep the Ten Commandments- not once- He taught the opposite.

fli said:

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. NKJV





God condemned sin in the flesh. As long as Christians remain in the Spirit God does not impute sin to them, their sin is condemned. Christians immediately after believing can be of to minds. They can be carnal minded, as the people in 1Corinthians, or they can be spiritually minded as most of the proselytes and Jews of the first century were. God gives grace for those not Spiritually minded and they have time to change their mind. At some point all must come to be spiritually minded to become children of God. Those who do not become spiritually minded will reject discipline to become bastards and lose salvation.

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The carnally minded as Paul states clearly are those who are hostile to God’s law, which makes them an enmity against God. Hence -Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15 1 John 2:3-6

fli said:

Spiritually minded people agree that Gods law is just, holy and good. That is full repentance for both most gentiles and Jews. Jesus will convict us of our sins, childish disobedience. God has granted repentance unto life, until we agree with Jesus. All those who have a spiritual mind are Children of God, this means they do not reject God's discipline.

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Agree

fli said:

You are teaching a works-based salvation.

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. NKJV

We are under grace, not the law.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all. NKJV


We have the faith of our father Abraham.

Romans 4:12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised. NKJV


Abraham believed God and was accounted righteous before he was circumcised. He was not under the law. The law was not given until after God gave the law about circumcision. Abraham did not keep the sabbath, any commandment or any law to be righteous. He was righteous because he believed God. When we believe in Jesus, we have certified that God is true. In other words, we believe God and are as righteous as Abraham is.


Hebrews 7:22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. NKJV


We are under a new covenant. However, if people would like to be justified under the old covenant they have that choice.


Galatians 5:2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. NKJV


All they need do is place their faith in obeying one part of the old law and they will be under the old covenant.


James 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. NKJV


James states that the old covenant law was one unit. The 10 commandments were a part of the law. By the scriptures in Galatians if a person has chosen to obey one law for salvation in the new covenant they have fallen from grace and must obey the entire law.

Back to the new covenant that I am under.


Hebrews 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. NKJV

The new covenant is a better covenant based on better promises.

John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. NKJV


These are the better promises from the Holy Spirit. People are in sin if they do not believe in Jesus. Jesus died for the sins of the world. Because He is righteous, He was resurrected from the dead to justify those who believe in Him. Anyone not believing in Him will be judged a sinner.


All it takes to get into heaven is to believe in Jesus.


1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV


The Corinthians that died under discipline, died because they kept disrespecting the Lord's supper. Had they repented God would have stopped discipline and they would have lived. These scriptures deny the truth of your doctrine.

Revelation 2:20 Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. NKJV


In the above Jesus is going to discipline Jezebel and her children to death if they do not repent. Jeremiah 31: 29-30 God quit punishing the children for the sins of the parents. The children in verse 31 above are those people who believe in Jezebel's doctrine. This is discipline. If they do not repent, they will die under discipline and will go to heaven.

Hebrews 12:3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;


6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." NKJV


If you are disciplined by God, He loves and accepts you as a son.

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Sigh, you keep cutting off the context of these scriptures. Anyone can make any case they want by plucking out a verse here or a verse there, but just like I demonstrated with John 3:16 we need to read the entire context.

No, I am not teaching a works based salvation, I am teaching salvation that works.

We are not saved by the law- all the law does is show us our sin Rom 3:20 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 and our unrighteousness and our need for Jesus our SAVIOR, and so we depend on His righteousness Psa 119:172 and not our own. We are saved by faith through the blood of Jesus. Does faith void out the law- NO! it establishes the law Rom 3:31. Hard to make the case I have faith in Jesus, but not His teachings to do them Mat 4:4 James 1:22. Which is why Gods faithful keep God's commandments- because obeying God is a consequence of faith. This really is just common sense, but also scriptural if you read the faith chapter Hebrews 11. Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments- do you think those who do not love Him will be in heaven? Breaking the greatest commandment- to love God with everything we have.

This is the fruit of a saved person:

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here[ are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

This is the faith that reconciles

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

The out of context scriptures will only lead us down the wrong path Rev 22:15 Mat 7:21-23 James 1:22 1 John 2:4 Mat 5:19 Mat 15:3-14

I pray you consider all of the teaching of Jesus and the example He left for us 1 John 2:6

fli said:

If we need to keep the Old Testament commandments to be saved, we have to do works. We need to keep the New Testament commandments in 1 John. Jesus did all the Old Testaments laws for us. He worked the law completely. We have his righteousness by believing in Him. That is the promise we have under the new covenant.

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Did you not read my post? The law cannot save us, it just points out our sin and our need for Jesus.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” (Found in the Ten Commandments 20:17 breaking one of these you break them all James 2:10-12)

Did Jesus teach we an break these laws? On the contrary. He condemned those who keep their own rules in lieu of God's commandments and says that is worshipping in vain. Wow.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (found in the Ten Commandments Exo 20: 12) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

No wonder why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of the commandments again quoting directly from the Ten Mat 5:191-30 and if we have faith in His teaching, we would have faith in the warning He gives us, because Jesus loves us and wants us to take the narrow path back to Him which reconciles Rev 22:14. The just shall live by faith and by every Word Mat 4:4

Dear friend, your argument is not with me.