How Old Is The Earth

BNR32FAN

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And if I put a radar image on my computer and sent it out that would also not be a radar image, but they used the WMAP to map all this our with radar. You are just seeing what they saw in a tidier package, you are not arguing the facts that this is a true presentation.

So, God uses science to prove his word is true and we FIGHT IT.............LOL
You do realize that most scientists are atheists right, and that Christians scientists are typically mocked, scoffed at, ridiculed, and disregarded based solely on the fact that they believe in a supernatural being? In reality Christian scientists don’t stand a chance for gaining any credibility as a scientist unless their theories coincide with mainstream scientific theories. Anyone who deviates from the widely accepted theories is automatically discredited and labeled as being incompetent and by doing this the atheist science community has monopolized science and therefore dictates who and what is considered to be credible. Do you really think these people care anything at all about what the Bible says? Do you really think they’re trying to prove the Bible to be true? Science isn’t proving God’s word is true, it’s controlled by people trying to prove that it’s false and if you can’t see that then your blind.
 
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Platte

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Yes, its not complicated.

You complicate it when you start proclaiming that the beginning of the Mesopotamian civilization (of agriculture, writings...) means the universe did not exist before, just because you do not know how to read Genesis properly.
Silly
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yeah I’ve been down that rabbit hole with him. He thinks that Genesis derived from men and not from God. There’s only One person who could testify as to what took place before the first man was created. So if it didn’t come from God that means it came from man’s imagination and has no place in the Bible because it’s purely fiction. If we’re going to start claiming that certain parts of the Bible are fictitious then we have no solid foundation on which to believe any of it.
 
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Diamond7

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means the universe did not exist before, just because you do not know how to read Genesis properly.
He did not say universe, he said creation.

I repeat this many times. There are very, very few words in Genesis chapter one. It would take all of the books in the world to begin to explain what we read and study in Genesis chapter one. If you would spend 12 hours a day, six days a week for 50 years then you would just be starting to understand. At least as much as the temporal can understand the infinite.

John 21 "25 "There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written."
 
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Diamond7

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There’s only One person who could testify as to what took place before the first man was created.
In the Beginning, We Dwelled with God

In the cosmic dawn, before stars ignited, When the void whispered secrets to eternity, We stood as ethereal witnesses— Silent souls, woven into the fabric of creation.
 
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Platte

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Nothing is complicated when you understand. If you do not understand then it becomes complicated and complex.
Yeah and I really don’t understand what the debate is. If earth was created 6000 years ago then you would expect there to be no civilizations, no writings, no languages, no recorded history, etc. that predate it and there isn’t. History supports the Bible timeline of Creation.
 
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Diamond7

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Yeah and I really don’t understand what the debate is. If earth was created 6000 years ago then you would expect there to be no civilizations, no writings, no languages, no recorded history, etc. that predate it and there isn’t. History supports the Bible timeline of Creation.
Dispensationalism where a day is 1,000 years explains this the best.
 
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Fisherking

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Well, you’re just ignoring the evidence I presented. The Hebrew word Yovm is never once used in the Bible referring to anything other than a 24 hour period of time or daytime as opposed to night time. The Hebrews used the word Yovm the same way we use the word day today. The meaning of the word is indicated by grammatical the usage of it and if you paid attention to the verses you quoted you would see that in every single case you provided it is actually used the same way we use the word day in English. The definition your trying to apply to Genesis 1 is not grammatically correct.
This is not a true statement, even if you do not quite grasp that it is not factual, I try not to chew my cud too many times, I find we people at times are just at an enpass.

“The deep” is the universe? Then why did you omit the other half of that verse?

”The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So you’re saying that “the deep” here isn’t referring to the waters that is mentioned in the same exact sentence? Cmon your trying too hard to insert something into the text that is not there.
Correct, the Darkness on the face of the deep is God telling us there was no SUNLIGHT YET !!! Then God tells how the sunlight came into existence on the earth, God created the earth sun and every planet in our solar system at the same time, 4.5 billion years ago they came from a cloud of gas and dust called the solar nebula.

But with earth God did a special thing, He gave us a bio-dome that traps in moisture, thereby it reflects the sunlight and thus illuminates the earth. Without that bio-dome, the earth could grown no plants, so that is what God means by He moved on the Face of the Waters, that is not about the depth of waters, its speaking about there being no Suns for 400 million years. That is why the evening always comes first.

You get the Darkness then the Light. The light could not exist to the point it illuminates the earth without Water to reflect it, LOOK IT UP.

The moon has nothing to do with seasons. The main function of the moon is to protect the earth from incoming debris. Seasons are dictated by the tilt of the earth’s axis not the position of the moon.
Do you not understand we would have no orderly seasons without the moon? We would be an earth that wobbles, we would have violent weather, Google on Youtube the earth without a moon, its fascinating. Some show you computer generated life (well non life) with no moon. We rotate as we do, which gives us 3 month type seasons four times a year, because we spin in an ORDERLY FASHION !! Did you think on Day four God created the Light again? No, that is just referring to the Stars guiding us, God gave us all the lights, but on day four he gave us the Seasons, that happened by the Earth and another planet the same size crashing together, try googling that, Earth and Moon crashes. The earth is held into place on its axis by the moon, nothing is by chance, its God's design.

So I can see your trying to reconcile science and the Bible which is fine, I did that myself. The thing is we came to two different conclusions. I tried your method first of reinterpreting the scriptures and it doesn’t work. The only way you can interpret the scriptures to coincide with science requires redefining the words that are used in the creation account but that poses a problem because you won’t find those words being used in that redefined manner anywhere else in scripture.
Or, maybe you just do not interpret the meaning properly. This is easy to me, I can explain the whole book of Revelation in one post, that was much, much harder. I can actually explain the 1290 and 1335, that took me years of praying until God revealed that, this was easy, we can see by facts how old the universe is.

So after trying all this and coming to the conclusion that I can’t redefine words in Genesis 1 to coincide with science without contradicting their usage in the rest of the Old Testament I turned to examining science itself and I found that scientists make a lot of assumptions in their claims and they don’t always display their findings in the same manner that they claim to have based their conclusions on. I’m willing to discuss this if you’d like.
Yowm is used for anything to do with TIME, then in order to understand the TIMEFRAME one has to look at all the descriptions. Nothing fits in a young earth. The earths surface took millions of years to cool. The Dinos died out 70 million years ago and turned into oil. Light travels at the Speed of Light. In that Radar Map, those Quantum Fluctuations OUTSIDE our Universe the Scientists an not explain, would be God.

It is what it is brother, this stuff is east to me, my calling is understanding Prophecy.

God Bless
 
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trophy33

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For whoever may be interested in the biblical account of creation, here is a shortened Biblical dictionary text about it:

Creation. *Create.
I. The Old Testament.
If we want to understand the sz account of the s., it is first of all necessary to know the ancient worldview [image of the world] that Israel shared with its time or whose terminology it used, but it is also necessary to see the peculiarity of the Israeli concept and submission to ancient oriental myths, about which we are already very well informed today. The old church was fully geocentric, and neither was the Reformation in its classical period able to overcome this world opinion, which she even defended with biblical arguments [eg Luther against Copernicus].
Only modern theology is trying to discover the religious intention of the biblical tradition. It is not surprising that this intention is hidden behind a form that has been overcome today. The biblical writers could not write and speak other than in the manner of their time. It's about the content, not the packaging.
A. The world view of Israel. The universe was understood in three parts [*Heaven, the heavens, where see the image of the Babylonian idea of the world]. The lowest part was formed by the ocean, on which the earth floats like an overturned plate, and the sky spans above it.
However, we often encounter deviations and inconsistencies in the OT text as proof that these images were only used as illustrations to express a certain religious message, but not to depict a comprehensive worldview. So, on the very first pages of Scripture, we actually have two reports about the creation.:
a) Gn 1,1-2,4a [attributed to the literary source P = Priester Codex, i.e. the Priestly Codex],
b) Gn 2.4bn [t. Vol. J = Yahwist, *Pentateuch].
According to the first report, which is certainly younger, the land in its primeval state was tóhû vábóhû, which Kral. translate "ugly and desolate" [Gn 1:2]. This expresses the chaotic state of the "abyss" [te hôm], which is similar to the Akkadian chaotic monster Tiamat, ruler of the age that preceded this current one. According to the Sumerian-Akkadian cosmogony, the great gods are first born from that primeval chaos, of which the cleverest and bravest, Marduk [otherwise called Ea, etc.], with the help of others, undergoes a victorious struggle with Tiámata and creates heaven and earth from the split corpse. According to the biblical tradition, »The Spirit of God hovered over the waters« [Gn 1:2] - as if a polemic against those myths according to which the gods are still being born.
And there was no need to fight with those "waters" or "abyss". The world is created by the word, the mere word, of the supreme God, exalted above the world.
The certainty with which the name God is here pronounced elevates the biblical message above all Oriental cosmogonies, as well as makes a significant difference from them, even though it used many of the same images and in no way presented a different picture of the world. - The second [older] report is even more similar to those Sumerian-Akkadian myths, but even here it is not permissible to speak of mere dependence, but rather of the intentionality with which the biblical tradition uses the given material and transforms it.
While the Babylonians talked about the birth of gods, the Scriptures emphasize the creation of man [Gn 2,7]. Regardless of the fact that as the protector of paradise, he moves into the realm of the supernatural and thus superhuman. The living, eternal God himself stands above him as his creator, and only then will we understand the message of Scripture correctly if we do not break it into separate, even contradictory, »literary sources«, but understand it as a theological whole, where the younger layers supplement and explain, but in doing so it stands on the same line as the older one, not in conflict. We can talk about a mosaic made up of different colored stones, which must be put together properly if we want to get the right picture. - For details comp. Bič I., 219ff; II., 226ff.

(Adolf Novotný, Biblický slovník, p. 1007, Google translation, with some tweaking)
 
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trophy33

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For whoever might be more deeply interested in biblical genealogies, namely in gospels. Its too long in the book, so I took just some pieces:

Family trees
...However, Herod I is said to have destroyed all the genealogies that were stored in the temple in order to cover up his lowly origin and break the genealogical pride of some Israelites, especially the high priests, who boasted genealogies, said to include a period of up to 2000 years.
Since then, only family trees have been maintained in the form of comments to the books of Paralipomenon, in which the genealogies of the Davidians occupied a prominent place. After all, the Messiah was expected from the family of David!

When studying OT family trees, it is important to keep in mind that they often differ significantly from our concept of genealogy.
An Israeli sometimes preferred schematic symmetry to listing all the descendants of individual family tree links. Many are
omitted to reach a certain number. Thus from Adam to Noah 10 generations are calculated, from Shem to Abraham also 10; Noah had 70 sons, likewise Jacob's house had 70 souls [Gn 46,27].
For the most part, genealogy must be understood as a calculation not of individuals [Gn 10:8-10], but of tribes; son can refer to the population of a certain territory, tribe or nation [Gn 10:2-22] or even a city [Gn 10:15; 25.2-4;
1Pa 2.50-55. *Son].
The expression "to beget", "to give birth to someone" must often be understood in a broader sense: "to be the originator", the forefather, the founder.
Family trees were also used to preserve stories about more important representatives of the family. What for us are the dates in the overview of history, for the Israelis were the names of the individual articles in the year.

*Genealogy of Jesus.

According to the traditional concept, in the NT we have a double genealogy of Jesus, in Mt 1:1-16 ascending from Abraham to Jesus, in L 3:33-24 a descending genealogy from Jesus, the second Adam, to
to the first Adam. Both generally agree in names from Abraham to David. But in others, the two "family trees" differ considerably. We have at Mt the Davidic line as it developed through the Solomons, at Lk is the line of Solomon's brother Nathan. This difference is evident from the following tables, compiled in ascending order...

...A more acceptable interpretation is given by Zahn in his commentary on Mt [3. 1910 edition]. He believes with Chrysostom that the title Mt 1.1 »biblos geneseós«, which Kral. they translate the »Book of *genealogy«, belongs to the entire Gospel, not just to Mt 1:2-17, and that it is not a genealogy [Greek genealogy] at all, a listing of the ancestors of a certain person, but a tólédôt [=stories, Gn 6:9; 37.2; Well 3.1; *Rod], the stories of the life of Jesus, in which the history of Israel from Abraham and
David has reached his goal. Matthew [or even Luke] is not at all concerned with proving that Jesus is from the family of David - if he wanted to prove it, he would have started with David, not Abraham - because even his greatest enemies did not even doubt Jesus was a Davidian and his public performance would otherwise be incomprehensible.
In his Gospel, Matthew wants to present the stories of Jesus in such a way that it is evident that Jesus, of the many David's descendants who existed at the time [comp. Mt 11:3] is the Messiah, i.e. that the promises given to the royal house of David and Abraham were fulfilled in him.
The so-called family tree of Matthew is actually the history of Israel in a nutshell: Abraham is the root in which Israel distinguished itself from the history of the rest
of humanity, Jesus Christ is the culmination of this history. That Mt was not concerned with the year can also be seen from the fact that many names from 1Pa 1:34; 2:1-15; 3:1-19; Rt 4:18-22; 1Pa 3:19-24 are omitted and for the period after Zerubbabel he lists names about which there is nothing in the Bible, and that he artificially narrates his calculation according to the scheme 3x14 [Mt 1:17]:
lists 14 birth names in David; in David, the history begun by Abraham culminates for him temporarily; from David to the Babylonian captivity
also lists 14 family names. The deportation of the chosen nation and the loss of Israel's political independence is the second peak of history for M, which occurred because of the sins of the rulers, some of whom [v. 7-11] they could not even become bearers of God's promise [2S 7,12-16]. But in order for Mt to reach the number 14, he had to omit between Jehoram and Hosea [= Uzziah, Azariah]
three kings: Ahaziah, Joash and Amaziah. According to Jerome, this erasure of the names of the three kings occurred because they came from the house of the wicked Jezebel.
However, this is by no means a mistake, but rather a deliberate adaptation of the 3x14 scheme. Catholic interpreters point out that the number 14 is the symbolic number of the name of David [dalet = 4, vav = 6, dalet = 4. The name David had these three consonants dvd = 4+6+4 = 14]. In the third line, however, we have only 13 names in today's Matthew's text. Zahn convincingly proves that this is a mistake of the translator of the Gospel from Aramaic to Greek, when he omitted Joachim and Jeconiah is listed as the son of Josiah, although in fact he was his grandson [sr. 2 Kings 23,30n.34-24,17; further 1Pa 3:15, where Shallum is most likely identical with Jehoahaz]. Zahn believes that Mt 1:11 originally read as follows: »Josiah then begat Joachim and his brothers during the Babylonian deportation« [sr. 2 Pa 36,6.10; 2 Kings 24:15; 25.7].
The interrupted so-called genealogy in verse 12, where Jeconias suddenly appears, is justified by the fact that a kingless period is coming, indicated four times by the Greek term metoikesia = deportation [Kral. "captivity"]. One of the deported princes became Salatiel's father [1Pa 3,16ff].
One of the deported princes became Salatiel's father [1Pa 3.16nn]. That Mt is not concerned with the family tree, but with history
according to Zahn, it can also be seen from the fact that in v. 2 and 11 there is the addition »and his brothers«. Mt thereby indicates an important turn in the history of Israel: the bearer of the blessing is already not an individual. Judas and his brothers are the founders of the "house of Israel" [Mt 10:6; 15:24], »twelve generations« [Mt 19:28].
It is the same in v. 11. Until then, the bearers of the promises given to David were individuals from the Davidic family. After the fall of the empire, the line is no longer clear. The Davidians branch into several lines, and no one knew from which branch the messianic kingdom would come to life.
It is certainly not without intention that Mt draws attention to their shameful aspects in his overview of the history of Israel [Tamar Gn 38; Raab - a heathen and a harlot Josh 2.1; James 2:25; Heb 11:31; Ruth the Moabitess Gn 19:30-38]; Bathsheba is not even named, but Mt gently draws attention to David's adultery and murder [2S 11,2-12. 25; Psalm 51]. To the Jewish ears it sounded offensive, but to the faithful readers in these facts there was a hint that Jesus Christ, who entered such history, would become the savior of all from sin, not only Jews, but also Gentiles [Mt 28:19].
Perhaps there was also a hidden apology against Jewish gossip and rumors connected with the virgin birth of Jesus.
According to Zahn, even Luke's family tree does not want to prove the Davidic origin of Jesus, but rather his connection with the beginning of human history and with the entire human race. The son of God is also the son of Adam! Jesus is one of the members of the human race [comp. expression *Son of man J 2:57]. In Jesus Christ, what God intended in Adam was accomplished. He is the second Adam. At the same time, however, he is the visible image of the invisible God [2K 4,4; Ecclesiastes 1:15; sr. John 12:45; 14.4 nn; Heb 1:3]. All of this perhaps expresses the end of the genealogy in Luke 3:38: "Who was Adam's, who was God's". Luke's genealogy, which according to some manuscripts has 77 names, is numerically evenly composed: 21 [3x7] names from Jesus to the exile, 21 [3x7] names from the exile to David, 14 names from David to Abraham, and 21 names from Abraham to God. According to Škrabal, the number 77 is said to express perfection [sr. Mt 18:22], i.e. the perfect reading of the entire human race, whose new Adam became the Savior [universality, universality of salvation].

(Adolf Novotný, Biblický slovník, p. 787, Google translation, with some tweaking)
 
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Platte

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For whoever may be interested in the biblical account of creation, here is a shortened Biblical dictionary text about it:

Creation. *Create.
I. The Old Testament.
If we want to understand the sz account of the s., it is first of all necessary to know the ancient worldview [image of the world] that Israel shared with its time or whose terminology it used, but it is also necessary to see the peculiarity of the Israeli concept and submission to ancient oriental myths, about which we are already very well informed today. The old church was fully geocentric, and neither was the Reformation in its classical period able to overcome this world opinion, which she even defended with biblical arguments [eg Luther against Copernicus].
Only modern theology is trying to discover the religious intention of the biblical tradition. It is not surprising that this intention is hidden behind a form that has been overcome today. The biblical writers could not write and speak other than in the manner of their time. It's about the content, not the packaging.
A. The world view of Israel. The universe was understood in three parts [*Heaven, the heavens, where see the image of the Babylonian idea of the world]. The lowest part was formed by the ocean, on which the earth floats like an overturned plate, and the sky spans above it.
However, we often encounter deviations and inconsistencies in the OT text as proof that these images were only used as illustrations to express a certain religious message, but not to depict a comprehensive worldview. So, on the very first pages of Scripture, we actually have two reports about the creation.:
a) Gn 1,1-2,4a [attributed to the literary source P = Priester Codex, i.e. the Priestly Codex],
b) Gn 2.4bn [t. Vol. J = Yahwist, *Pentateuch].
According to the first report, which is certainly younger, the land in its primeval state was tóhû vábóhû, which Kral. translate "ugly and desolate" [Gn 1:2]. This expresses the chaotic state of the "abyss" [te hôm], which is similar to the Akkadian chaotic monster Tiamat, ruler of the age that preceded this current one. According to the Sumerian-Akkadian cosmogony, the great gods are first born from that primeval chaos, of which the cleverest and bravest, Marduk [otherwise called Ea, etc.], with the help of others, undergoes a victorious struggle with Tiámata and creates heaven and earth from the split corpse. According to the biblical tradition, »The Spirit of God hovered over the waters« [Gn 1:2] - as if a polemic against those myths according to which the gods are still being born.
And there was no need to fight with those "waters" or "abyss". The world is created by the word, the mere word, of the supreme God, exalted above the world.
The certainty with which the name God is here pronounced elevates the biblical message above all Oriental cosmogonies, as well as makes a significant difference from them, even though it used many of the same images and in no way presented a different picture of the world. - The second [older] report is even more similar to those Sumerian-Akkadian myths, but even here it is not permissible to speak of mere dependence, but rather of the intentionality with which the biblical tradition uses the given material and transforms it.
While the Babylonians talked about the birth of gods, the Scriptures emphasize the creation of man [Gn 2,7]. Regardless of the fact that as the protector of paradise, he moves into the realm of the supernatural and thus superhuman. The living, eternal God himself stands above him as his creator, and only then will we understand the message of Scripture correctly if we do not break it into separate, even contradictory, »literary sources«, but understand it as a theological whole, where the younger layers supplement and explain, but in doing so it stands on the same line as the older one, not in conflict. We can talk about a mosaic made up of different colored stones, which must be put together properly if we want to get the right picture. - For details comp. Bič I., 219ff; II., 226ff.

(Adolf Novotný, Biblický slovník, p. 1007, Google translation, with some tweaking)
Great imagination
 
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trophy33

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Great imagination
Imagination that stands on education is all right. Education is based on what can be studied - the original culture, for example.

On the other hand, imagination based upon ignorance is what the YEC Christians (mostly Americans) or the Flat Earth Christians (also mostly Americans) practice - intuitive reading "as it is", mixed with current modern ideas. Without any interest in the history, culture, composition or the origin of the text.
 
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The age of the earth undeterminable

He did not say universe, he said creation.

I repeat this many times. There are very, very few words in Genesis chapter one. It would take all of the books in the world to begin to explain what we read and study in Genesis chapter one. If you would spend 12 hours a day, six days a week for 50 years then you would just be starting to understand. At least as much as the temporal can understand the infinite.rstablished science the age of the earth is 4.5 billion years

John 21 "25 "There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written."
 
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Diamond7

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Herod I is said to have destroyed all the genealogies that were stored in the temple
Paul said there was a lot of controversy and arguments over the genealogies.
Luke AND Matthew have put the important part in our Bible.
 
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Platte

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Imagination that stands on education is all right. Education is based on what can be studied - the original culture, for example.

On the other hand, imagination based upon ignorance is what the YEC Christians (mostly Americans) or the Flat Earth Christians (also mostly Americans) practice - intuitive reading "as it is", mixed with current modern ideas. Without any interest in the history, culture, composition or the origin of the text.
I am neither a YEC or a flat earther but I am educated and what you posted is conjecture at its finest. There are no redeeming qualities to the post and certainly no facts regarding the Bible writers intent and meaning. Scripture is quoted throughout the Bible that confirms the simple meanings that are recorded. Stop with the nonsense please.
 
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trophy33

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I am neither a YEC or a flat earther but I am educated and what you posted is conjecture at its finest. There are no redeeming qualities to the post and certainly no facts regarding the Bible writers intent and meaning. Scripture is quoted throughout the Bible that confirms the simple meanings that are recorded. Stop with the nonsense please.

If you reject background information about the Bible in the Bible dictionaries and people with expertise who wrote them, you do not need to create useless reactions and comments. It may be useful for others, if not for you.

It was not addressed to you anyway, but to "whomever might be interested". You obviously are not.
 
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Yeah and I really don’t understand what the debate is. If earth was created 6000 years ago then you would expect there to be no civilizations, no writings, no languages, no recorded history, etc. that predate it and there isn’t. History supports the Bible timeline of Creation.
That of course is not true. Man was created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit into a clay/dust being, thereby Man was created in God's Image because we became immortal beings. Any animal like men before that were not human beings.

This is just like those not in the know on why the Universe is as big as it is, they say if we are the only world with living species, why would God create such a huge universe? Well, we can understand this by the numbers we are presented with. The Universe started with a big bang, if there had of been matter with one more grain of sand in it the universe would not be here at all. It has to be the exact size it is how it would have collapsed or if it had been one grain of sand smaller it would have of never had rocky formations. That might be vice verse, but the universe is fine tuned and tbh, scientist now know this is a fact.

But to try and say the earth can only be 6000 years old because man is only 6000 years old is just not even a sensical argument my friend. God who knows all things knew when man needed to be created, therefore we have all the resources (oil eventually) to be where we are at now. Without oil we might still be riding horse and buggies.
 
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Platte

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That of course is not true. Man was created 6000 years ago, when God placed His spirit into a clay/dust being, thereby Man was created in God's Image because we became immortal beings. Any animal like men before that were not human beings.

This is just like those not in the know on why the Universe is as big as it is, they say if we are the only world with living species, why would God create such a huge universe? Well, we can understand this by the numbers we are presented with. The Universe started with a big bang, if there had of been matter with one more grain of sand in it the universe would not be here at all. It has to be the exact size it is how it would have collapsed or if it had been one grain of sand smaller it would have of never had rocky formations. That might be vice verse, but the universe is fine tuned and tbh, scientist now know this is a fact.

But to try and say the earth can only be 6000 years old because man is only 6000 years old is just not even a sensical argument my friend. God who knows all things knew when man needed to be created, therefore we have all the resources (oil eventually) to be where we are at now. Without oil we might still be riding horse and buggies.
Ok - so you are saying the universe and earth as we know it today is in a perfect state for mankind - the perfect resources and environment. “The stars are aligned” So what’s the problem then since I agree with you?
 
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In the Beginning, We Dwelled with God

In the cosmic dawn, before stars ignited, When the void whispered secrets to eternity, We stood as ethereal witnesses— Silent souls, woven into the fabric of creation.
The preexistence of souls was rejected at the 5th ecumenical council in 553AD.

 
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