NATO cannot be dependent on whims of US President - EU

trophy33 · Feb 12, 2024

NATO "cannot be an alliance a la carte," EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell has said after former US president Donald Trump downplayed his commitment to NATO's security umbrella in Europe if he becomes president again.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2024/0212/1431782-nato-borrell/

'Reckless': Trump's threat to NATO allies sparks fierce backlash in Europe

Trump's threat to NATO allies sparks fierce backlash in Europe

European leaders have decried Donald Trump's suggestion the US would not protect NATO members failing to meet the alliance’s spending target. #EuropeNews

www.euronews.com

Arcangl86 · Feb 12, 2024

I mean he has a fair point. Article 5 is the foundation of the North Atlantic Treaty. If members can just choose to ignore it, then NATO has no reason for existing.

Laodicean60 · Feb 12, 2024

myst33 said:
NATO "cannot be an alliance a la carte,"

I sided with Trump when he asked NATO to put in their share of defense spending and they didn't. I think NATO is a la carte when you see our role in the world and their support. I remember when we took a stance (sanctions) on Iran years ago France and Germany ignored it and were still trading with them. Of course, they need our protection and want to spread Western ideology but we can't afford to do the heavy lifting anymore. Our tax dollars are given away overseas and the country is going broke and that's when NATO falls. As a Christian, I always wondered where America was in the endtime could it be that we are unable to help Israel because we are broke?

wing2000 · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
As a Christian, I always wondered where America was in the endtime could it be that we are unable to help Israel because we are broke?

Why does an omnipotent God need America?

wing2000 · Feb 12, 2024

Arcangl86 said:
I mean he has a fair point. Article 5 is the foundation of the North Atlantic Treaty. If members can just choose to ignore it, then NATO has no reason for existing.

Trump could care less about the NATO treaty nor any commitment for that matter.

Laodicean60 · Feb 12, 2024

wing2000 said:
Why does an omnipotent God need America?

It's not God who needs America but it's humankind that does. God has given the story of what mankind will do to ourselves. Since you are a Christian I don't have to tell you the story about Isreal redemption.

trophy33 · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
I sided with Trump when he asked NATO to put in their share of defense spending and they didn't. I think NATO is a la carte when you see our role in the world and their support. I remember when we took a stance (sanctions) on Iran years ago France and Germany ignored it and were still trading with them. Of course, they need our protection and want to spread Western ideology but we can't afford to do the heavy lifting anymore. Our tax dollars are given away overseas and the country is going broke and that's when NATO falls. As a Christian, I always wondered where America was in the endtime could it be that we are unable to help Israel because we are broke?

NATO is not about sanctions, common politics or about your taxes. NATO is about collective security - if one member will be attacked by a third party, its like all other members were attacked, too.

Larniavc · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
It's not God who needs America but it's humankind that does. God has given the story of what mankind will do to ourselves. Since you are a Christian I don't have to tell you the story about Isreal redemption.

I think the point being made is that if God wants Israel redemption to happen it will, even if America does not exist.

Laodicean60 · Feb 12, 2024

myst33 said:
NATO is not about sanctions, common politics or about your taxes. NATO is about collective security - when one member will be attacked by a third party, all the countries in the alliance have the obligation to come to help.

Trump says stupid stuff. The NATO countries need to wake up and get off American welfare because someday Russia will attack and your country. neighbor will wish they built up the defense. Plus when you guys spend more American companies make more.
How much has your country spent on defense since Trump asked everyone to put 2% of GDP when he was president? So much for our collective security. It is about taxes and when America goes broke we won't be able to provide you security.

trophy33 · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Trump says stupid stuff. The NATO countries need to wake up and get off American welfare because someday Russia will attack and your country. neighbor will wish they built up the defense. Plus when you guys spend more American companies make more.
How much has your country spent on defense since Trump asked everyone to put 2% of GDP when he was president? So much for our collective security. It is about taxes and when America goes broke we won't be able to provide you security.

Nobody forces America to be everywhere in the world. But when there is a treaty, then it is either valid or not. It cannot be "a la carte" based upon which US president is currently in the office.

Laodicean60 · Feb 12, 2024

myst33 said:
Nobody forces America to be everywhere in the world. But when there is a treaty, then it is either valid or not. It cannot be "a la carte".

So much for treaties when American soldiers are dying in the Middle East. Does your country believe in Western ideology, Does your country want Ukraine to be in NATO?

trophy33 · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
How much has your country spent on defense since Trump asked everyone to put 2% of GDP when he was president? So much for our collective security.

I do not know. How much? You certainly know, when you say "so much for our collective security".

trophy33 · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
So much for treaties when American soldiers are dying in the Middle East.

What are you doing in the Middle East and how is it related to NATO? Have you activated the article 5 or asked for help?

Laodicean60 said:
Does your country believe in Western ideology

What is western ideology? We are central Europe. And "western ideology" is not a requirement for NATO, do you know that for example Turkey is in NATO?

Laodicean60 said:
Does your country want Ukraine to be in NATO?

The current government coalition probably yes. The opposition parties no, I think. Regarding citizens, I do not remember any public opinion poll about this.

wing2000 · Feb 12, 2024

FYI - Czech defense spedning according to the ministry of defense (September, 2023)

Expenditures of the Department of Defense will reach a record 151.2 billion crowns ($6.52 billion--Ed.), which also include state defense expenditures in other chapters, which amount to 8.6 billion crowns. In total, this amounts to 159.8 billion crowns, which for the first time since the Czech Republic joined NATO reaches the threshold of 2% of GDP, to which the Czech Republic has committed. The year-on-year increase in the budget goes overwhelmingly to investments in the modernization of the army. The budget with these parameters was approved by the government today and sent to the lower house for further discussion

Czech 2024 Defense Spending to Exceed 2% of GDP for First Time

PRAGUE --- Expenditures of the Department of Defense will reach a record 151.2 billion crowns ($6.52 billion--Ed.), which also include state defense...

www.defense-aerospace.com

trophy33 · Feb 12, 2024

wing2000 said:
FYI - Czech defense spedning according to the ministry of defense (September, 2023)

Expenditures of the Department of Defense will reach a record 151.2 billion crowns ($6.52 billion--Ed.), which also include state defense expenditures in other chapters, which amount to 8.6 billion crowns. In total, this amounts to 159.8 billion crowns, which for the first time since the Czech Republic joined NATO reaches the threshold of 2% of GDP, to which the Czech Republic has committed. The year-on-year increase in the budget goes overwhelmingly to investments in the modernization of the army. The budget with these parameters was approved by the government today and sent to the lower house for further discussion

Czech 2024 Defense Spending to Exceed 2% of GDP for First Time

PRAGUE --- Expenditures of the Department of Defense will reach a record 151.2 billion crowns ($6.52 billion--Ed.), which also include state defense...

www.defense-aerospace.com

I remember that some years ago, there was a discussion whether to spend more and the problem was that when army received more money, they did not know what to spend it on, because there were no special needs. We are a small landlocked country focused on light expeditionary special forces. If we bought 200 modern heavy tanks, they would be just rusting in garages.

But it has been changing last 2 years and if I can judge from regular news, we are modernizing heavily now, like also other EU countries.

Laodicean60 · Feb 12, 2024

wing2000 said:
FYI - Czech defense spedning according to the ministry of defense (September, 2023)

" Defense Spending Will Exceed Two Percent of GDP for the First Time" LOL Too bad they didn't listen to Trump years ago Ukraine might have more armament.
"In the program statement, we clearly stated that defense is one of our priorities." Why all of a sudden it's a priority" Could they not see the writing on the wall in 2014 with Crimea?

trophy33 · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
" Defense Spending Will Exceed Two Percent of GDP for the First Time" LOL Too bad they didn't listen to Trump years ago Ukraine might have more armament.
"In the program statement, we clearly stated that defense is one of our priorities." Why all of a sudden it's a priority" Could they not see the writing on the wall in 2014 with Crimea?

Ukraine is neither in NATO nor in the EU and we had no bilateral defense treaty. The US had, though, I think?

Also, the situation was confusing, uncertain, full of various lies.

BCP1928 · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
" Defense Spending Will Exceed Two Percent of GDP for the First Time" LOL Too bad they didn't listen to Trump years ago Ukraine might have more armament.
"In the program statement, we clearly stated that defense is one of our priorities." Why all of a sudden it's a priority" Could they not see the writing on the wall in 2014 with Crimea?

Perhaps the "writing on the wall" did not include the possibility that a Trump administration would rather have Russia as an ally, rather than the NATO countries.

Laodicean60 · Feb 12, 2024

myst33 said:
, they did not know what to spend it on, because there were no special needs.

You have a perceived hostile country at your neighbor's borders and those tanks could help Poland if needed. All of you know you have America as your security blanket.

wing2000 · Feb 12, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
" Defense Spending Will Exceed Two Percent of GDP for the First Time" LOL Too bad they didn't listen to Trump years ago Ukraine might have more armament.
"In the program statement, we clearly stated that defense is one of our priorities." Why all of a sudden it's a priority" Could they not see the writing on the wall in 2014 with Crimea?

I don't know....I don't pretend to know Czech domestic politics or the priorities of the Czech people.

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